10 Most Accomplished of My Lifetime

[IamInuit]

Don't expect a fast answer. I will have to give this some thought. The first fight I watched live was Ali/Chuvalo in 66 lol. In addition the hockey playoffs are on.

Damn. You're OLD!

Perhaps. Perhaps you were 20 when you watched Ali/Quarry lol which would make me quite young.

LOL, I'm 47.

52. Lol we started watching at roughly the same age. 8.

[THE THIRD MAN]

I can't see how you can leave out Roy Jones jr and then there is Bob Foster who was Light Heavy king from 1968-1974 and only lost to Ali and Frazier in that time.

[marbleheadmaui]

Interesting thread...

Ali- He is Ali what else is there to say, 1st 3 time LEGIT HW champion, beat more HW legends then any other 2 hwts combined...reinvented himself more then once...Again he is Ali his accomplishments speak for themselves

Mike Tyson- Like Ali an easy answer is He's Mike Tyson and that should be good enough. His best days had questionable comp but man did he walk through guys, Until his decline he dominated like no other HW...His over all attraction to the sport...Youngest HW champion, some of the largest live gates ever, one of if not the biggest PPV attraction of all time...remember PPV was just getting off the ground when Tyson was selling more then most of todays guys...He always kept you wanting more!!! Not many fighters have that ability despite what they can do in the ring

Roy Jones Jr- Middleweight, Super Middleweight, Light Heavyweight and HW champion, had skill we had never seen ina fighter, his athletic ability at MW and SMW were nothing short of jaw dropping, he DOMINATED his weight classes for years..5 or 6 time time world champion

Oscar De La Hoya- six division world champion, maybe the most popular fighter since Ali in terms of fanbase and drawing ability, fought the best competiton available he sought them out!!! Faced JCC, Pernell, Hopkins, PBF, Mosley, Trinidad, Quartey, Pacquiao.Vargas, Campas, Gatti, JJL, Paez, Ruelas, Hernandez,Camacho and the list goes on...Plus went on to be one of the most successful promoters ever....DLH wins even when he loses because he doesnt lose fans and uses the bout to further boxing one way or another

Sugar Ray Leonard- WW, JMW, MW, SMW and LHW world champion, fought Hagler, Hearns, Duran, Benitez, was not until after some wars and eye injuries did he ever look ordinary, popular top resume champion 5 weight classes three of the most memorible rivalries ever.....

Thanks for your thoughts. A couple of counters
1. The only way Tyson can make a list like this is if you add entertainment as a criteria. He was a THE MAN champ with two defenses. And he was NOT the champion until he defeated Spinks. More on that below.
2. The equating of alphabet belts with true champions is a curse of the last 15 years. It literally is Bullspit. If you're an American it is equating division champs with the World Series Champ. If you're a soccer fan it is like equating World Cup semi-finalists with the WC champion. The alphabet straps literally are meaningless in determining a champion. For that concept to have meaning in boxing it is because the title is WORLD Champion. That means there can only be one per division at a time.

Let's look at Roy Jones as an example.
160-He beat BHOP for a vacant strap. At the time BHOP was the 8th ranked middle in the world. At the time the middles were a mess and stayed that way for another seven years. In NO sense was Jones CHAMPION here the way Hagler or Monzon was.
168-Again, an enormously muddled division. Jones claim rests on his defeat of James Toney. A GREAT win. But why was Toney a strapholder? he'd taken it from Tony Thornton, ranked #8 at 168. The lineal champion at that time was Michael Nunn who had taken the crown from Victor Cordoba who had taken it from Chris Tiozzo etc. Roy has no legit claim here either.
175-This one is easiest of all. Darius Michlashewski won, in the ring, every belt Roy held here. It was simply stripped because Darius wouldn't pay sanctioning fees...and Roy wouldn't fight him. Zero claim
Heavyweight-John Ruiz? Come on. Lennox Lewis was the lineal champ in a line going back all the way to Patterson.

A last point on Jones. He had monster TALENT, his skill set was seriously deficient. His footwork was awful, he had no jab, his balance was only ok, it's just that he was blessed with such amazing natural gifts he was able to win in spite of mediocre skills.

By comparison, in the days of eight divisions and one champ per? THE WORST champion had the equivalent of eight of today's belts and two division champions like Robinson had the equivalent of 16 and Henry Armstrong held every belt between 126 and 154. That's 24 belts.

See how silly this gets when one values the alphabet straps!


Oscar was THE MAN in two divisions. A fine fighter. But the only way he makes a list like this is if you count entertainment value rather than in-ring accomplishment.

Leonard belongs though I think my reasons are far better than yours

[IamInuit]

I can't see how you can leave out Roy Jones jr and then there is Bob Foster who was Light Heavy king from 1968-1974 and only lost to Ali and Frazier in that time.

Outside of Charles and maybe Spinks I dont really see many having a shot.

[marbleheadmaui]

Pernell Whitaker- This guy was slick as hell in the ring...I wish he was prime today a bout against Mayweather would be a boxing fans dream in terms of tecnique...was a world champion in one form or another for almost a decade....one of the greatest boxers of all time who until his later years when he stopped training as hard as he partied he was unbeatable

Roberto Duran- Over 100 career wins, was champion in 4 weight classes, had some of the most memorable fights win or lose of the last 40 years, tough as nails and overtime we thought he was done at an elite level he came back to prove the world wrong...The announcement of his name gave fans goosebumps because they knew they were in for a war...Was one of the most intimidating fighters of all time as well

Floyd Mayweather JR- Love him or hate him you can not deny his skill set and the fact he has claimed world titles in 5 weight classes, one of the most defensively skilled fighters ever. Can be exciting if he chooses but no matter what he gives us some sort of clinic against elite opponents one of the era biggest draws recently long time pound for pound best one of the ATG's and most successful fighters period let alone of my time

Manny Pacquiao- Again Love him or hate him the man holds titles in 8 different weight classes, has fought and beaten some of our eras biggest legends...only legitimate loss in his career is against Morales (You cant count losses at 15,16 yrs old in bouts against grown men) Only truly tested against JMM...Made himself a legend by battering bigger men.....An international celebertiy that just adds attention to the sport...pound for pound kingpin like Floyd one of the most successful fighters ever not just of my generation

Sweet Pea and Duran though again my resons are better

Floyd's "skill set" has never, by his own choices, been fully vetted (unlike everyone else on my list). Being a great defender against an over the hill Oscar or a good, but not great JL Castillo just isn't the same thing as performing against a Chavez or an Azumah (Sweet Pea) or against a Duran or Hagler (Leonard). It is all about competition level.

The eight belt garbage about Manny is just that, garbage. he has a legit claim at 112, 126, 130 and 140. Amazing

[generalbulldog]

Don't expect a fast answer. I will have to give this some thought. The first fight I watched live was Ali/Chuvalo in 66 lol. In addition the hockey playoffs are on.

Damn. You're OLD!

Perhaps. Perhaps you were 20 when you watched Ali/Quarry lol which would make me quite young.

LOL, I'm 47.

Ah so we have a baby boomer here!

[marbleheadmaui]

I can't see how you can leave out Roy Jones jr and then there is Bob Foster who was Light Heavy king from 1968-1974 and only lost to Ali and Frazier in that time.

Leaving Jones out was easy

He doesn't have a legit claim as Champion in any division and he left waaaaay too many guys unfought. Now was he an extraordinary combination of speed and power? You betcha!

I should be SHOT for not mentioning the Sherriff. [Cue Bob Marley]

[IamInuit]

I can't see how you can leave out Roy Jones jr and then there is Bob Foster who was Light Heavy king from 1968-1974 and only lost to Ali and Frazier in that time.

Leaving Jones out was easy

He doesn't have a legit claim as Champion in any division and he left waaaaay too many guys unfought. Now was he an extraordinary combination of speed and power? You betcha!

I should be SHOT for not mentioning the Sherriff. [Cue Bob Marley]

Now we have an issue. Pretzel logic friend.

[marbleheadmaui]

I can't see how you can leave out Roy Jones jr and then there is Bob Foster who was Light Heavy king from 1968-1974 and only lost to Ali and Frazier in that time.

Leaving Jones out was easy

He doesn't have a legit claim as Champion in any division and he left waaaaay too many guys unfought. Now was he an extraordinary combination of speed and power? You betcha!

I should be SHOT for not mentioning the Sherriff. [Cue Bob Marley]

Now we have an issue. Pretzel logic friend.

I realize I'd be shot, not the Sherriff, but how bout a little slack?

[marbleheadmaui]

I can't see how you can leave out Roy Jones jr and then there is Bob Foster who was Light Heavy king from 1968-1974 and only lost to Ali and Frazier in that time.

Outside of Charles and maybe Spinks I dont really see many having a shot.

I assume you mean against Jones. See I think a really good technician like say a Harold Johnson would use his craft to beat Jones handily. MAB gave us a great example when he beat Hamed what happens when good talent plus craft runs into great talent with technical flaws. I mean Hamed was faster, stronger, had better reflexes and got crushed.

The list of guys at 175 who'd give Jones real trouble I think is double digits.

What I wonder about with Jones is had he been born in 1922 and HAD to learn his craft to survive in the 1940's, how amazing could he have become? THAT is a scary proposition!

[Violent Demise]

Let's look at Roy Jones as an example.
160-He beat BHOP for a vacant strap. At the time BHOP was the 8th ranked middle in the world. At the time the middles were a mess and stayed that way for another seven years. In NO sense was Jones CHAMPION here the way Hagler or Monzon was.
168-Again, an enormously muddled division. Jones claim rests on his defeat of James Toney. A GREAT win. But why was Toney a strapholder? he'd taken it from Tony Thornton, ranked #8 at 168. The lineal champion at that time was Michael Nunn who had taken the crown from Victor Cordoba who had taken it from Chris Tiozzo etc. Roy has no legit claim here either.
175-This one is easiest of all. Darius Michlashewski won, in the ring, every belt Roy held here. It was simply stripped because Darius wouldn't pay sanctioning fees...and Roy wouldn't fight him. Zero claim
Heavyweight-John Ruiz? Come on. Lennox Lewis was the lineal champ in a line going back all the way to Patterson.

A last point on Jones. He had monster TALENT, his skill set was seriously deficient. His footwork was awful, he had no jab, his balance was only ok, it's just that he was blessed with such amazing natural gifts he was able to win in spite of mediocre skills.

That's not entirely true. It depends on how you look at the lineal line after Michael Spinks vacated. Some consider Virgil Hill's defeat of Henry Maske as the beginning of the next line of succession, but a good amount trace the title through Roy Jones. The lineal championship at Light Heavyweight is very much a subject to dispute

[marbleheadmaui]

Let's look at Roy Jones as an example.
160-He beat BHOP for a vacant strap. At the time BHOP was the 8th ranked middle in the world. At the time the middles were a mess and stayed that way for another seven years. In NO sense was Jones CHAMPION here the way Hagler or Monzon was.
168-Again, an enormously muddled division. Jones claim rests on his defeat of James Toney. A GREAT win. But why was Toney a strapholder? he'd taken it from Tony Thornton, ranked #8 at 168. The lineal champion at that time was Michael Nunn who had taken the crown from Victor Cordoba who had taken it from Chris Tiozzo etc. Roy has no legit claim here either.
175-This one is easiest of all. Darius Michlashewski won, in the ring, every belt Roy held here. It was simply stripped because Darius wouldn't pay sanctioning fees...and Roy wouldn't fight him. Zero claim
Heavyweight-John Ruiz? Come on. Lennox Lewis was the lineal champ in a line going back all the way to Patterson.

A last point on Jones. He had monster TALENT, his skill set was seriously deficient. His footwork was awful, he had no jab, his balance was only ok, it's just that he was blessed with such amazing natural gifts he was able to win in spite of mediocre skills.

That's not entirely true. It depends on how you look at the lineal line after Michael Spinks vacated. Some consider Virgil Hill's defeat of Henry Maske as the beginning of the next line of succession, but a good amount trace the title through Roy Jones. The lineal championship at Light Heavyweight is very much a subject to dispute

Fair point. I'd argue that the best possible choice for creating a new line was Virgil Hill. Then he lost to Darius. Darius remained active until he lost to...I dunno? was it Tiozzo?

I guess one could make the argument that the crown remained vacant past Hill, but then how does Jones get THE claim over say Darius then?

[IamInuit]

I can't see how you can leave out Roy Jones jr and then there is Bob Foster who was Light Heavy king from 1968-1974 and only lost to Ali and Frazier in that time.

Leaving Jones out was easy

He doesn't have a legit claim as Champion in any division and he left waaaaay too many guys unfought. Now was he an extraordinary combination of speed and power? You betcha!

I should be SHOT for not mentioning the Sherriff. [Cue Bob Marley]

Now we have an issue. Pretzel logic friend.

I realize I'd be shot, not the Sherriff, but how bout a little slack?

Yup he could have fought Watson, Collins, Eubank, Benn. They could have also fought him in that 160/68 area. People seem to forget what a machine this man was at 160/168/ 175. Dariusz ducked Roy just as much as Roy ducked him. Jones was the man at 175 regardless of his collection of tin. He would have kicked the snot out of Dariusz.

[IamInuit]

I can't see how you can leave out Roy Jones jr and then there is Bob Foster who was Light Heavy king from 1968-1974 and only lost to Ali and Frazier in that time.

Outside of Charles and maybe Spinks I dont really see many having a shot.

I assume you mean against Jones. See I think a really good technician like say a Harold Johnson would use his craft to beat Jones handily. MAB gave us a great example when he beat Hamed what happens when good talent plus craft runs into great talent with technical flaws. I mean Hamed was faster, stronger, had better reflexes and got crushed.



The list of guys at 175 who'd give Jones real trouble I think is double digits.

What I wonder about with Jones is had he been born in 1922 and HAD to learn his craft to survive in the 1940's, how amazing could he have become? THAT is a scary proposition!

Both testicles for a time machine. Ok 1. Make it the left one. No right. Just cut one off.

[marbleheadmaui]

I can't see how you can leave out Roy Jones jr and then there is Bob Foster who was Light Heavy king from 1968-1974 and only lost to Ali and Frazier in that time.

Leaving Jones out was easy

He doesn't have a legit claim as Champion in any division and he left waaaaay too many guys unfought. Now was he an extraordinary combination of speed and power? You betcha!

I should be SHOT for not mentioning the Sherriff. [Cue Bob Marley]

Now we have an issue. Pretzel logic friend.

I realize I'd be shot, not the Sherriff, but how bout a little slack?

Yup he could have fought Watson, Collins, Eubank, Benn. They could have also fought him in that 160/68 area. People seem to forget what a machine this man was at 160/168/ 175. Dariusz ducked Roy just as much as Roy ducked him. Jones was the man at 175 regardless of his collection of tin. He would have kicked the snot out of Dariusz.

Yeah and Tyson would have kicked the snot out of Douglas and Duran would have kicked the snot out of Laing and Chiquita would have buried Roland Pascua

You know and I know a fighter has either done it or he hasn't. Woulda coulda shoulda carries no weight.