Had A Bad Scare Today.

[Gandalf]

Glad you are okay, Ice. Sounds like a really scary situation.

And what's with all this silly macho talk about guns? What if they threatened Ice with a gun first and he was just stood there with a gun in his pocket? What use would it have served then? And they could very well have shot him whilst running away.

The lack of guns in the UK is one of its better qualities. The fact that there are no guns out here and people are generally quite passive is partly what makes me feel completely safe.

If you American's are happy with your guns, then fair enough I am not going to try and change that. But most countries are happy without them and function more than effectively too.

What's "macho" about not being subject to whims of scum

This isn't the wild west, it's England.

Guns are not an acceptable solution in our culture. If guns were freely available Ice might well have been at the mercy of a gun himself and the fall out could have been far worse.

I am just glad it was only a knife and that he was athletic enough to get away.

A) You didn't answer the question
B) What if he hadn't been athletic enough? What if he'd been injured or tired or a little older? A knife is a lethal weapon. You're ok at your fellow citizens being at the whim of armed scum?

a) I didn't even realise it was a question with the smilie things going on. I like your rhetorical style, but your question could have been framed a little better. Having given it a second I get the gist though.

I guess it would be great if he had a gun to counter the thugs, but this is England things are quite different. My point is that if Ice had a gun, then it would be more likely the thugs would have had a gun too and they would be aiming first.

b) I am not happy about what Ice experienced, but it was a very unusual situation and not something most of us have gone through. He could well have got hurt, but how would having a gun in his pocket help him? He could reach his hand in and have three bullets in his brain. I could counter it and say look at America. Ice got away and the thugs had a little knife. Look at how Vernon Forrest went out and we know of him because he is famous. It is happening everyday.

A culture with too many guns is not something I approve of. I know some of the American's on here will disagree and this is an argument that has been hashed out many times before. I live in a society with no guns, feel safe and am quite happy in the knowledge that nobody will shoot me. Not even the police. Some societies are really quite relaxed and safe. In comparison even England seems like a gangsters paradise compared to where I live.

There is no reason to believe that if IBC had a gun the thugs would as well. But if the thugs even thought he MIGHT they'd likely move on. Guys like that aren't warriors they are scavengers.

My own personal experience is my guns may have saved my life on two occasions.

The problem is NEVER EVER guns! They are just a tool. A decent man with a gun troubles me not at all. A guy with bad intentions with a knife or a club or a hammer or a boxcutter or a sap or a baseball bat or a tire iron is a far bigger problem. It is the GUY, not the tool that is the issue.

The difference between you and me is I also feel perfectly safe. But it is because I AM perfectly safe. I can enforce my safety. You are only safe at the whim of scum.

I am safe because I choose to live in a place where assault, murder etc are relatively uncommon crimes. Perhaps the fact that you need to carry weapons around with you is a sign that your society has some serious problems and that you are living in undesirable places. I have never had a knife pulled on me nor been threatened with a gun. I have lived in a couple of rather dodgy areas in the UK, but even then I have never experienced any massive problems. However, I can see why it might be useful to take precautions ie pepper spray in those environments. But living in Korea, I can honestly say that as a man, I have never felt anything less than safe. Nobody is going to threaten me with a knife or anything like that. The minute I ever encounter any danger I will revise my opinion, but 8 years and so far so good. I see few signs of that changing.

I think the fact that the family bond is still so strong here, the fact that most people live in high apartments, the fact that teenagers have to study so much and the lack of drugs, means that society is relatively stable. Somehow it all just seems to work out here. No guns and little violence. Knives are out there, but nobody uses them. Kids have woodcutter knives in their pencil cases, nobody batters an eyelid and nobody gets stabbed. Of course, there is crime here, but none of that burglary to pay for the heroin nonsense. The most usual crime is tax evasion and road safety violations.

[marbleheadmaui]

Glad you are okay, Ice. Sounds like a really scary situation.

And what's with all this silly macho talk about guns? What if they threatened Ice with a gun first and he was just stood there with a gun in his pocket? What use would it have served then? And they could very well have shot him whilst running away.

The lack of guns in the UK is one of its better qualities. The fact that there are no guns out here and people are generally quite passive is partly what makes me feel completely safe.

If you American's are happy with your guns, then fair enough I am not going to try and change that. But most countries are happy without them and function more than effectively too.

What's "macho" about not being subject to whims of scum

This isn't the wild west, it's England.

Guns are not an acceptable solution in our culture. If guns were freely available Ice might well have been at the mercy of a gun himself and the fall out could have been far worse.

I am just glad it was only a knife and that he was athletic enough to get away.

A) You didn't answer the question
B) What if he hadn't been athletic enough? What if he'd been injured or tired or a little older? A knife is a lethal weapon. You're ok at your fellow citizens being at the whim of armed scum?

a) I didn't even realise it was a question with the smilie things going on. I like your rhetorical style, but your question could have been framed a little better. Having given it a second I get the gist though.

I guess it would be great if he had a gun to counter the thugs, but this is England things are quite different. My point is that if Ice had a gun, then it would be more likely the thugs would have had a gun too and they would be aiming first.

b) I am not happy about what Ice experienced, but it was a very unusual situation and not something most of us have gone through. He could well have got hurt, but how would having a gun in his pocket help him? He could reach his hand in and have three bullets in his brain. I could counter it and say look at America. Ice got away and the thugs had a little knife. Look at how Vernon Forrest went out and we know of him because he is famous. It is happening everyday.

A culture with too many guns is not something I approve of. I know some of the American's on here will disagree and this is an argument that has been hashed out many times before. I live in a society with no guns, feel safe and am quite happy in the knowledge that nobody will shoot me. Not even the police. Some societies are really quite relaxed and safe. In comparison even England seems like a gangsters paradise compared to where I live.

There is no reason to believe that if IBC had a gun the thugs would as well. But if the thugs even thought he MIGHT they'd likely move on. Guys like that aren't warriors they are scavengers.

My own personal experience is my guns may have saved my life on two occasions.

The problem is NEVER EVER guns! They are just a tool. A decent man with a gun troubles me not at all. A guy with bad intentions with a knife or a club or a hammer or a boxcutter or a sap or a baseball bat or a tire iron is a far bigger problem. It is the GUY, not the tool that is the issue.

The difference between you and me is I also feel perfectly safe. But it is because I AM perfectly safe. I can enforce my safety. You are only safe at the whim of scum.

I am safe because I choose to live in a place where assault, murder etc are relatively uncommon crimes. Perhaps the fact that you need to carry weapons around with you is a sign that your society has some serious problems and that you are living in undesirable places. I have never had a knife pulled on me nor been threatened with a gun. I have lived in a couple of rather dodgy areas in the UK, but even then I have never experienced any massive problems. However, I can see why it might be useful to take precautions ie pepper spray in those environments. But living in Korea, I can honestly say that as a man, I have never felt anything less than safe. Nobody is going to threaten me with a knife or anything like that. The minute I ever encounter any danger I will revise my opinion, but 8 years and so far so good. I see few signs of that changing.

I think the fact that the family bond is still so strong here, the fact that most people live in high apartments, the fact that teenagers have to study so much and the lack of drugs, means that society is relatively stable. Somehow it all just seems to work out here. No guns and little violence. Knives are out there, but nobody uses them. Kids have woodcutter knives in their pencil cases, nobody batters an eyelid and nobody gets stabbed. Of course, there is crime here, but none of that burglary to pay for the heroin nonsense. The most usual crime is tax evasion and road safety violations.

LOL! One of my comebacks prior to reading this was "If you prize safety over other things so much, move to Singapore!" Guess I can't use that one huh?

I will say that in the UK, the law taking citizens guns led to a huge spike in home invasions. Why? Because that crime became far less risky for criminals. Allowing criminals more certainty about the risks involved in a crime will always have an impact. IIRC England now has more total home invasions than the US. Not per capita, but in total!

[Gandalf]

Perhaps that is the case. I think drugs, poverty and houses which are are easy to break into are a bad combination. Perhaps a gun in self defence might well be a serious deterrent.

[marbleheadmaui]

Perhaps that is the case. I think drugs, poverty and houses which are are easy to break into are a bad combination. Perhaps a gun in self defence might well be a serious deterrent.

Yeah I think the Castle Doctrine is a wise one. I also think concealed carry is good law. Why? It introduces uncertainty into a criminals mind. He not only has to worry about the person he's about to assault carrying, but the guy walking down the street, the guy coming out a door etc. It really alters the risk reward. I think it says something that in the USA the highest crime rates are in places where guns are hard to carry legally, like Washington DC, Chicago and Detroit.

On another, related, noted. I suspect, but cannot prove, that homogenous societies simply eliminate large numbers of social ills merely through their homogeneity. Pluralistic societies seem to have to trade some level of social ills for the richness of multiple, interacting cultures.