Modern day ATG.

[Pavlik]

Pac= boxer of the decade 2000's
Pbf= can beat Pac. inhuman skills.
RJJ= boxer of the decade 90's

[marbleheadmaui]

Pac= boxer of the decade 2000's
Pbf= can beat Pac. inhuman skills.
RJJ= boxer of the decade 90's

I often wonder why Jones would deserve that title? It seems to me Ricardo Lopez is at least as deserving.

[Pavlik]

Pac= boxer of the decade 2000's
Pbf= can beat Pac. inhuman skills.
RJJ= boxer of the decade 90's

I often wonder why Jones would deserve that title? It seems to me Ricardo Lopez is at least as deserving.

middleweight champ to heavyweight champ albeit facing a second rate heavyweight warrants great respect imo.

[marbleheadmaui]

Pac= boxer of the decade 2000's
Pbf= can beat Pac. inhuman skills.
RJJ= boxer of the decade 90's

I often wonder why Jones would deserve that title? It seems to me Ricardo Lopez is at least as deserving.

middleweight champ to heavyweight champ albeit facing a second rate heavyweight warrants great respect imo.

Except he was never middleweight champ in any sense that means anything (ala Hagler, Monzon, Greb, Robinson, Pavlik). He won a vacant strap against an unranked BHOP. Now don't get me wrong, Jones was a great, great fighter. But Lopez fought every conceivable challenger and had 25 defenses of the lineal title. I mean you literally cannot name a guy Lopez should have fought...or at least I can't. He did it the way I think it oughtta be done. There's 6-7 names Jones really could have improved his resume with. My take anyway.

[generalbulldog]

Pac= boxer of the decade 2000's
Pbf= can beat Pac. inhuman skills.
RJJ= boxer of the decade 90's

I often wonder why Jones would deserve that title? It seems to me Ricardo Lopez is at least as deserving.

Jones in his prime looked unstoppable, plus his win over prime and undefeated Toney and young Hopkins is much better than anyone on Lopez's resume then factor in that Jones fought in 5 weight classes. I don't even think it's up for debate between RJJ and Lopez. The only other person that can maybe challenge RJJ's for boxer of the 90s maybe Whitaker.

[marbleheadmaui]

Pac= boxer of the decade 2000's
Pbf= can beat Pac. inhuman skills.
RJJ= boxer of the decade 90's

I often wonder why Jones would deserve that title? It seems to me Ricardo Lopez is at least as deserving.

Jones in his prime looked unstoppable, plus his win over prime and undefeated Toney and young Hopkins is much better than anyone on Lopez's resume then factor in that Jones fought in 5 weight classes. I don't even think it's up for debate between RJJ and Lopez. The only other person that can maybe challenge RJJ's for boxer of the 90s maybe Whitaker.

Well hold on there General! Lopez KO'd Saman Sorjaturong in two rounds. How good was he? He later knocked Chiquita Gonzales out. An old Lopez also defeated a peak Bufalo Alvarez who might be the second best 105 ever. Sure Jones fought in five divisions but he didn't take on the top guy at heavy or a series of top guys at 168 (Benn, Eubank, Liles, Calzaghe) or at 175 (Darius M).

I agree Jones LOOKED unstoppable. But so does Oklahoma when they play Rice or Baylor. In order to find out whether someone actually IS unstoppable? Ya gotta fight the top guys over and over again. Like Sweet Pea and Lopez did. Again, Jones was great, but he left questions Lopez and Sweet Pea never did.

[generalbulldog]

Pac= boxer of the decade 2000's
Pbf= can beat Pac. inhuman skills.
RJJ= boxer of the decade 90's

I often wonder why Jones would deserve that title? It seems to me Ricardo Lopez is at least as deserving.

Jones in his prime looked unstoppable, plus his win over prime and undefeated Toney and young Hopkins is much better than anyone on Lopez's resume then factor in that Jones fought in 5 weight classes. I don't even think it's up for debate between RJJ and Lopez. The only other person that can maybe challenge RJJ's for boxer of the 90s maybe Whitaker.

Well hold on there General! Lopez KO'd Saman Sorjaturong in two rounds. How good was he? He later knocked Chiquita Gonzales out. An old Lopez also defeated a peak Bufalo Alvarez who might be the second best 105 ever. Sure Jones fought in five divisions but he didn't take on the top guy at heavy or a series of top guys at 168 (Benn, Eubank, Liles, Calzaghe) or at 175 (Darius M).

I agree Jones LOOKED unstoppable. But so does Oklahoma when they play Rice or Baylor. In order to find out whether someone actually IS unstoppable? Ya gotta fight the top guys over and over again. Like Sweet Pea and Lopez did. Again, Jones was great, but he left questions Lopez and Sweet Pea never did.

Who on Lopez's resume is just as good or better than prime Toney and Hopkins? I'll be waiting. I rather take quality over quantity any day. And it's not RJJ's fault that the guys you mentioned didn't make the fights happened, they wanted Jones to come to them and fight them in their own home countries. That stuff just isn't happening. That's like guys like Ortiz, Zaveck, Senchenko, Berto wanting Pacquiao to fight them on their terms. Which isn't happening.

[Mr140]

If had to pick the best fighter of the past 20 years I have to say with out a doubt it is Lennox Lewis. I think he is a top ten heavyweight in upper part of the list. I don't think he ever really lost in his prime. Another big thing to me is also when you are the top heavy it means you can beat anyone. I am not taking about pound for pound i talking about literally you can beat everyone who is boxing at that time in the ring.

[BIG H]

Going back to RJJ, I completely agree with Marble about his resume, I have always been critical of it, but it's one of those situations where we just don't know how good he would've been against the guys mentioned. My opinion is that he would've beaten anybody that he fought at that time, I really do think he was that good.

[marbleheadmaui]

Pac= boxer of the decade 2000's
Pbf= can beat Pac. inhuman skills.
RJJ= boxer of the decade 90's

I often wonder why Jones would deserve that title? It seems to me Ricardo Lopez is at least as deserving.

Jones in his prime looked unstoppable, plus his win over prime and undefeated Toney and young Hopkins is much better than anyone on Lopez's resume then factor in that Jones fought in 5 weight classes. I don't even think it's up for debate between RJJ and Lopez. The only other person that can maybe challenge RJJ's for boxer of the 90s maybe Whitaker.

Well hold on there General! Lopez KO'd Saman Sorjaturong in two rounds. How good was he? He later knocked Chiquita Gonzales out. An old Lopez also defeated a peak Bufalo Alvarez who might be the second best 105 ever. Sure Jones fought in five divisions but he didn't take on the top guy at heavy or a series of top guys at 168 (Benn, Eubank, Liles, Calzaghe) or at 175 (Darius M).

I agree Jones LOOKED unstoppable. But so does Oklahoma when they play Rice or Baylor. In order to find out whether someone actually IS unstoppable? Ya gotta fight the top guys over and over again. Like Sweet Pea and Lopez did. Again, Jones was great, but he left questions Lopez and Sweet Pea never did.

Who on Lopez's resume is just as good or better than prime Toney and Hopkins? I'll be waiting. I rather take quality over quantity any day. And it's not RJJ's fault that the guys you mentioned didn't make the fights happened, they wanted Jones to come to them and fight them in their own home countries. That stuff just isn't happening. That's like guys like Ortiz, Zaveck, Senchenko, Berto wanting Pacquiao to fight them on their terms. Which isn't happening.

There can be no question that Lopez's defeat of Alvarez is more impressive than RJJ's win over BHOP. Alvarewz weighed in as a FLYWEIGHT and was at his absolute peak and an old Lopez still got him. BHOP at that time was an unranked comer. The win over Toney is, of course, the best on either resume.

It doesn't matter a lick whose "fault" it was. The fact is one either fights the fights or they don't. This ain't the Olympics, one doesn't get credit for perceived walkovers.

[generalbulldog]

Pac= boxer of the decade 2000's
Pbf= can beat Pac. inhuman skills.
RJJ= boxer of the decade 90's

I often wonder why Jones would deserve that title? It seems to me Ricardo Lopez is at least as deserving.

Jones in his prime looked unstoppable, plus his win over prime and undefeated Toney and young Hopkins is much better than anyone on Lopez's resume then factor in that Jones fought in 5 weight classes. I don't even think it's up for debate between RJJ and Lopez. The only other person that can maybe challenge RJJ's for boxer of the 90s maybe Whitaker.

Well hold on there General! Lopez KO'd Saman Sorjaturong in two rounds. How good was he? He later knocked Chiquita Gonzales out. An old Lopez also defeated a peak Bufalo Alvarez who might be the second best 105 ever. Sure Jones fought in five divisions but he didn't take on the top guy at heavy or a series of top guys at 168 (Benn, Eubank, Liles, Calzaghe) or at 175 (Darius M).

I agree Jones LOOKED unstoppable. But so does Oklahoma when they play Rice or Baylor. In order to find out whether someone actually IS unstoppable? Ya gotta fight the top guys over and over again. Like Sweet Pea and Lopez did. Again, Jones was great, but he left questions Lopez and Sweet Pea never did.

Who on Lopez's resume is just as good or better than prime Toney and Hopkins? I'll be waiting. I rather take quality over quantity any day. And it's not RJJ's fault that the guys you mentioned didn't make the fights happened, they wanted Jones to come to them and fight them in their own home countries. That stuff just isn't happening. That's like guys like Ortiz, Zaveck, Senchenko, Berto wanting Pacquiao to fight them on their terms. Which isn't happening.

There can be no question that Lopez's defeat of Alvarez is more impressive than RJJ's win over BHOP. Alvarewz weighed in as a FLYWEIGHT and was at his absolute peak and an old Lopez still got him. BHOP at that time was an unranked comer. The win over Toney is, of course, the best on either resume.

It doesn't matter a lick whose "fault" it was. The fact is one either fights the fights or they don't. This ain't the Olympics, one doesn't get credit for perceived walkovers.

That is false that Hopkins was not ranked when he met Roy Jones. Hopkins was ranked by Ring Magazine annual rankings in 1992 at no. 9 (a source that you tend to quote in a lot of your posts or debates) in their April 1993 issue. The Ring Magazine's Annual Ratings: 1992 - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia. Roy Jones and Hopkins fought in May of 1993. So indeed Hopkins was ranked as a top 10 MW when he fought Jones, and a future atg. Having a young Hopkins on the resume and winning the fight handily is very impressive for a not yet to be prime Roy Jones in his first title fight. In terms of boxing accomplishments and abilities Hopkins is leagues above Alvarez. Hopkins is an all time great fighter and easily cracks the top 50 fighters in history. Not to mentioned Jones Jr. had a much wider pool of fighters to contend with as Fenster posted compared to Lopez. So if you have a source that says Hopkins was an unranked comer as you've stated when he met Jones Jr. I would like to see it.

Sorry, I don't see anyone on Lopez's resume that is the equivalent of a Hopkins or James Toney. Alvarez a better win than Hopkins? Not too many people will agree with you on that.

[Violent Demise]

Pac= boxer of the decade 2000's
Pbf= can beat Pac. inhuman skills.
RJJ= boxer of the decade 90's

I often wonder why Jones would deserve that title? It seems to me Ricardo Lopez is at least as deserving.

Jones in his prime looked unstoppable, plus his win over prime and undefeated Toney and young Hopkins is much better than anyone on Lopez's resume then factor in that Jones fought in 5 weight classes. I don't even think it's up for debate between RJJ and Lopez. The only other person that can maybe challenge RJJ's for boxer of the 90s maybe Whitaker.

Well hold on there General! Lopez KO'd Saman Sorjaturong in two rounds. How good was he? He later knocked Chiquita Gonzales out. An old Lopez also defeated a peak Bufalo Alvarez who might be the second best 105 ever. Sure Jones fought in five divisions but he didn't take on the top guy at heavy or a series of top guys at 168 (Benn, Eubank, Liles, Calzaghe) or at 175 (Darius M).

I agree Jones LOOKED unstoppable. But so does Oklahoma when they play Rice or Baylor. In order to find out whether someone actually IS unstoppable? Ya gotta fight the top guys over and over again. Like Sweet Pea and Lopez did. Again, Jones was great, but he left questions Lopez and Sweet Pea never did.

Who on Lopez's resume is just as good or better than prime Toney and Hopkins? I'll be waiting. I rather take quality over quantity any day. And it's not RJJ's fault that the guys you mentioned didn't make the fights happened, they wanted Jones to come to them and fight them in their own home countries. That stuff just isn't happening. That's like guys like Ortiz, Zaveck, Senchenko, Berto wanting Pacquiao to fight them on their terms. Which isn't happening.

That's the problem I see with a lot of people today. Not saying you in particular. But it's that a lot of people don't know much or maybe never even heard of some of the names Lopez beat. So they don't count them or just assume there no good. Therefore giving no credit to a fighter who beat them. When in reality a lot of credit should be given.

[JonesJrMayweather]

Pac= boxer of the decade 2000's
Pbf= can beat Pac. inhuman skills.
RJJ= boxer of the decade 90's

I often wonder why Jones would deserve that title? It seems to me Ricardo Lopez is at least as deserving.

Jones in his prime looked unstoppable, plus his win over prime and undefeated Toney and young Hopkins is much better than anyone on Lopez's resume then factor in that Jones fought in 5 weight classes. I don't even think it's up for debate between RJJ and Lopez. The only other person that can maybe challenge RJJ's for boxer of the 90s maybe Whitaker.

Well hold on there General! Lopez KO'd Saman Sorjaturong in two rounds. How good was he? He later knocked Chiquita Gonzales out. An old Lopez also defeated a peak Bufalo Alvarez who might be the second best 105 ever. Sure Jones fought in five divisions but he didn't take on the top guy at heavy or a series of top guys at 168 (Benn, Eubank, Liles, Calzaghe) or at 175 (Darius M).

I agree Jones LOOKED unstoppable. But so does Oklahoma when they play Rice or Baylor. In order to find out whether someone actually IS unstoppable? Ya gotta fight the top guys over and over again. Like Sweet Pea and Lopez did. Again, Jones was great, but he left questions Lopez and Sweet Pea never did.

Who on Lopez's resume is just as good or better than prime Toney and Hopkins? I'll be waiting. I rather take quality over quantity any day. And it's not RJJ's fault that the guys you mentioned didn't make the fights happened, they wanted Jones to come to them and fight them in their own home countries. That stuff just isn't happening. That's like guys like Ortiz, Zaveck, Senchenko, Berto wanting Pacquiao to fight them on their terms. Which isn't happening.

That's the problem I see with a lot of people today. Not saying you in particular. But it's that a lot of people don't know much or maybe never even heard of some of the names Lopez beat. So they don't count them or just assume there no good. Therefore giving no credit to a fighter who beat them. When in reality a lot of credit should be given.

You said all of that, only to still not answer the question...

[Fenster]

Pac= boxer of the decade 2000's
Pbf= can beat Pac. inhuman skills.
RJJ= boxer of the decade 90's

I often wonder why Jones would deserve that title? It seems to me Ricardo Lopez is at least as deserving.

Jones in his prime looked unstoppable, plus his win over prime and undefeated Toney and young Hopkins is much better than anyone on Lopez's resume then factor in that Jones fought in 5 weight classes. I don't even think it's up for debate between RJJ and Lopez. The only other person that can maybe challenge RJJ's for boxer of the 90s maybe Whitaker.

Well hold on there General! Lopez KO'd Saman Sorjaturong in two rounds. How good was he? He later knocked Chiquita Gonzales out. An old Lopez also defeated a peak Bufalo Alvarez who might be the second best 105 ever. Sure Jones fought in five divisions but he didn't take on the top guy at heavy or a series of top guys at 168 (Benn, Eubank, Liles, Calzaghe) or at 175 (Darius M).

I agree Jones LOOKED unstoppable. But so does Oklahoma when they play Rice or Baylor. In order to find out whether someone actually IS unstoppable? Ya gotta fight the top guys over and over again. Like Sweet Pea and Lopez did. Again, Jones was great, but he left questions Lopez and Sweet Pea never did.

I think you're contradicting yourself here with regards to an earlier claim you've made.

You believe there has been a noticeable decline in the standard of boxing over the years, right? You believe this is due to dwindling numbers taking up the sport.

Basically - the more fighters the greater strength in depth.

Lopez pomp was fought at straw/minimum. There are currently just 296 registered professionals operating in this weight class.

Jones pomp was fought at middle/supermiddle/lightheavy. Across those three divisions there are currently 2812 pro fighters.

This indicates that Jones fought in a far more competitive pool purely down to his size. It is possible that fighters considered "average" in a pool of 3000 could be seen as "great" amongst 300, right? And the bigger the pool the more likelihood of fighters NOT meeting.

Therefore the lack of competition Lopez had compared to a bigger fighter like Jones should surely be considered when comparing them

[marbleheadmaui]

Pac= boxer of the decade 2000's
Pbf= can beat Pac. inhuman skills.
RJJ= boxer of the decade 90's

I often wonder why Jones would deserve that title? It seems to me Ricardo Lopez is at least as deserving.

Jones in his prime looked unstoppable, plus his win over prime and undefeated Toney and young Hopkins is much better than anyone on Lopez's resume then factor in that Jones fought in 5 weight classes. I don't even think it's up for debate between RJJ and Lopez. The only other person that can maybe challenge RJJ's for boxer of the 90s maybe Whitaker.

Well hold on there General! Lopez KO'd Saman Sorjaturong in two rounds. How good was he? He later knocked Chiquita Gonzales out. An old Lopez also defeated a peak Bufalo Alvarez who might be the second best 105 ever. Sure Jones fought in five divisions but he didn't take on the top guy at heavy or a series of top guys at 168 (Benn, Eubank, Liles, Calzaghe) or at 175 (Darius M).

I agree Jones LOOKED unstoppable. But so does Oklahoma when they play Rice or Baylor. In order to find out whether someone actually IS unstoppable? Ya gotta fight the top guys over and over again. Like Sweet Pea and Lopez did. Again, Jones was great, but he left questions Lopez and Sweet Pea never did.

I think you're contradicting yourself here with regards to an earlier claim you've made.

You believe there has been a noticeable decline in the standard of boxing over the years, right? You believe this is due to dwindling numbers taking up the sport.

Basically - the more fighters the greater strength in depth.

Lopez pomp was fought at straw/minimum. There are currently just 296 registered professionals operating in this weight class.

Jones pomp was fought at middle/supermiddle/lightheavy. Across those three divisions there are currently 2812 pro fighters.

This indicates that Jones fought in a far more competitive pool purely down to his size. It is possible that fighters considered "average" in a pool of 3000 could be seen as "great" amongst 300, right? And the bigger the pool the more likelihood of fighters NOT meeting.

Therefore the lack of competition Lopez had compared to a bigger fighter like Jones should surely be considered when comparing them

I ABSOLUTELY concede the point that at the end of the Bell Curve of Human Size (heavyweight and flyweight in original temrs) the competition level over time is AT BEST inconsistent compared to the other divisions for EXACTLY the reasons you noted. It is why I don't make the claim Finito is a top 25 All-Timer despite being only the second fighter in history with 25 defenses of a lineal crown (Joe Louis being the other). But Lopez fought EVERYBODY. Jones didn't. I'd NEVER argue Lopez's run as the equal of say Abe Attel's 20 defenses at featherweight for example, for the reasons you stated. Had Jones fought everyone, instead of having 6-7 holes as I identified, then there could be no comparison.

But that's not what happened. Great post by the way.