If Martinez is the best fighter in the sport how about fighting Ward, Kessler, Froch,

[Gandalf]

I don't see why he couldn't do that, but likewise I don't know why Pac couldn't fight him at 154 either. Marquez goes up two, but Pac can't go up one properly? Hmm. Double standards there methinks.

Martinez would be a smaller SMW, but it isn't a particularly mad thing to consider doing.

[marbleheadmaui]

I don't see why he couldn't do that, but likewise I don't know why Pac couldn't fight him at 154 either. Marquez goes up two, but Pac can't go up one properly? Hmm. Double standards there methinks.
Martinez would be a smaller SMW, but it isn't a particularly mad thing to consider doing.

This is SUCH bullspit! Manny is in his TENTH division and you want him to go up more?

The equivalent for JMM would be for him to go to 168 or 175!

[mafiajoey]

I don't see why he couldn't do that, but likewise I don't know why Pac couldn't fight him at 154 either. Marquez goes up two, but Pac can't go up one properly? Hmm. Double standards there methinks.
Martinez would be a smaller SMW, but it isn't a particularly mad thing to consider doing.

This is SUCH bullspit! Manny is in his TENTH division and you want him to go up more?

The equivalent for JMM would be for him to go to 168 or 175!

But he can fight for the 154lb title just not against someone who won't stand in front of him as a punching bag?

He fought Margo for the WBC light middleweight title 154lb

[marbleheadmaui]

I don't see why he couldn't do that, but likewise I don't know why Pac couldn't fight him at 154 either. Marquez goes up two, but Pac can't go up one properly? Hmm. Double standards there methinks.
Martinez would be a smaller SMW, but it isn't a particularly mad thing to consider doing.

This is SUCH bullspit! Manny is in his TENTH division and you want him to go up more?

The equivalent for JMM would be for him to go to 168 or 175!

But he can fight for the 154lb title just not against someone who won't stand in front of him as a punching bag?

He fought Margo for the WBC light middleweight title 154lb

LOL, yeah like THAT piece of junk means something.

[mafiajoey]

I don't see why he couldn't do that, but likewise I don't know why Pac couldn't fight him at 154 either. Marquez goes up two, but Pac can't go up one properly? Hmm. Double standards there methinks.
Martinez would be a smaller SMW, but it isn't a particularly mad thing to consider doing.

This is SUCH bullspit! Manny is in his TENTH division and you want him to go up more?

The equivalent for JMM would be for him to go to 168 or 175!

But he can fight for the 154lb title just not against someone who won't stand in front of him as a punching bag?

He fought Margo for the WBC light middleweight title 154lb

LOL, yeah like THAT piece of junk means something.

So if it means something then Pac can't do it? But if it means nothing and it's a cherry pick catch weight blah blah then it's ok for him to do it? And then you guys all praise him. Double standard the Pac fans use with Margo and Martinez...

[marbleheadmaui]

I don't see why he couldn't do that, but likewise I don't know why Pac couldn't fight him at 154 either. Marquez goes up two, but Pac can't go up one properly? Hmm. Double standards there methinks.
Martinez would be a smaller SMW, but it isn't a particularly mad thing to consider doing.

This is SUCH bullspit! Manny is in his TENTH division and you want him to go up more?

The equivalent for JMM would be for him to go to 168 or 175!

But he can fight for the 154lb title just not against someone who won't stand in front of him as a punching bag?

He fought Margo for the WBC light middleweight title 154lb

LOL, yeah like THAT piece of junk means something.

So if it means something then Pac can't do it? But if it means nothing and it's a cherry pick catch weight blah blah then it's ok for him to do it? And then you guys all praise him. Double standard the Pac fans use with Margo and Martinez...

Manny fighting bigger men is extremely impressive. But the Margarito fight didn't mean much outside of that did it?

A fight with Sergio Martinez is nothing short of a suicide mission. The equivalent would be JMM fighting a 168 or Floyd fighting a cruiserweight. THAT would be how many divisions Manny would have jumped.

Would it secure him a place in boxing's top 10-15 all-time if he won? Yup.

But given that you can't name ten men in history who have had the success across ten of today's divisions that Manny has, why do you find it useful to say if he doesn't he's being unreasonable?

Before you complain about him, doesn't logic require you to complain about the 99.999% of all figthers who have never tried to fight acrosds ten divisions?

[mafiajoey]

I don't see why he couldn't do that, but likewise I don't know why Pac couldn't fight him at 154 either. Marquez goes up two, but Pac can't go up one properly? Hmm. Double standards there methinks.
Martinez would be a smaller SMW, but it isn't a particularly mad thing to consider doing.

This is SUCH bullspit! Manny is in his TENTH division and you want him to go up more?

The equivalent for JMM would be for him to go to 168 or 175!

But he can fight for the 154lb title just not against someone who won't stand in front of him as a punching bag?

He fought Margo for the WBC light middleweight title 154lb

LOL, yeah like THAT piece of junk means something.

So if it means something then Pac can't do it? But if it means nothing and it's a cherry pick catch weight blah blah then it's ok for him to do it? And then you guys all praise him. Double standard the Pac fans use with Margo and Martinez...

Manny fighting bigger men is extremely impressive. But the Margarito fight didn't mean much outside of that did it?

A fight with Sergio Martinez is nothing short of a suicide mission. The equivalent would be JMM fighting a 168 or Floyd fighting a cruiserweight. THAT would be how many divisions Manny would have jumped.

Would it secure him a place in boxing's top 10-15 all-time if he won? Yup.

But given that you can't name ten men in history who have had the success across ten of today's divisions that Manny has, why do you find it useful to say if he doesn't he's being unreasonable?

Before you complain about him, doesn't logic require you to complain about the 99.999% of all figthers who have never tried to fight acrosds ten divisions?

You say the Margo fight didn't mean much? Are you kidding? It's your claim to fame for Manny so you can remind us he has won titles in as many divisions as he has. Since it didn't mean much I will give you permission to dock one number from the number you use when describing how many titles hes won. You said it yourself...it didn't mean much.

[Gandalf]

I don't see why he couldn't do that, but likewise I don't know why Pac couldn't fight him at 154 either. Marquez goes up two, but Pac can't go up one properly? Hmm. Double standards there methinks.
Martinez would be a smaller SMW, but it isn't a particularly mad thing to consider doing.

This is SUCH bullspit! Manny is in his TENTH division and you want him to go up more?

The equivalent for JMM would be for him to go to 168 or 175!

If Manny had turned pro at 21 after an amateur career like other fighters, he would not have started at such low weights. By the time he would have been fighting for a belt he would have been significantly heavier. Too much emphasis is placed on Manny starting at 4 ounces or whatever it was. He started so low because he was a hungry kid, that was all. He is a proper WW today. Just look at how starved he looks against Marquez in their last weigh in and compare it to today.

There is absolutely no reason why he couldn't test himself and try to fight Martinez at 154. The Marquez comparison is absurd.

[marbleheadmaui]

I don't see why he couldn't do that, but likewise I don't know why Pac couldn't fight him at 154 either. Marquez goes up two, but Pac can't go up one properly? Hmm. Double standards there methinks.
Martinez would be a smaller SMW, but it isn't a particularly mad thing to consider doing.

This is SUCH bullspit! Manny is in his TENTH division and you want him to go up more?

The equivalent for JMM would be for him to go to 168 or 175!

If Manny had turned pro at 21 after an amateur career like other fighters, he would not have started at such low weights. By the time he would have been fighting for a belt he would have been significantly heavier. Too much emphasis is placed on Manny starting at 4 ounces or whatever it was. He started so low because he was a hungry kid, that was all. He is a proper WW today. Just look at how starved he looks against Marquez in their last weigh in and compare it to today.

There is absolutely no reason why he couldn't test himself and try to fight Martinez at 154. The Marquez comparison is absurd.

That's simply nonsense. Manny is one of 5-6 teenaged champions. That MUST be taken into account in measuring Manny's greatness. Plus Manny is NOT a welterweight. He is merely fighting them. Manny eats like a horse right up to the weigh-in and drinks almost right up to it. Manny could make 140 by skipping a few meals and probably 135 without affecting his performance. Given today's day before weigh-ins welters come into the ring in the 155-160 range, Hell Ortiz came in at 161! Manny FIGHTS around 147. His fight night weight is within three pounds of where it was when he was a 130 for God's sake. He just doesn't go through the degydration and rehydration process.

[Gandalf]

I don't see why he couldn't do that, but likewise I don't know why Pac couldn't fight him at 154 either. Marquez goes up two, but Pac can't go up one properly? Hmm. Double standards there methinks.
Martinez would be a smaller SMW, but it isn't a particularly mad thing to consider doing.

This is SUCH bullspit! Manny is in his TENTH division and you want him to go up more?

The equivalent for JMM would be for him to go to 168 or 175!

If Manny had turned pro at 21 after an amateur career like other fighters, he would not have started at such low weights. By the time he would have been fighting for a belt he would have been significantly heavier. Too much emphasis is placed on Manny starting at 4 ounces or whatever it was. He started so low because he was a hungry kid, that was all. He is a proper WW today. Just look at how starved he looks against Marquez in their last weigh in and compare it to today.

There is absolutely no reason why he couldn't test himself and try to fight Martinez at 154. The Marquez comparison is absurd.

That's simply nonsense. Manny is one of 5-6 teenaged champions. That MUST be taken into account in measuring Manny's greatness. Plus Manny is NOT a welterweight. He is merely fighting them. Manny eats like a horse right up to the weigh-in and drinks almost right up to it. Manny could make 140 by skipping a few meals and probably 135 without affecting his performance. Given today's day before weigh-ins welters come into the ring in the 155-160 range, Hell Ortiz came in at 161! Manny FIGHTS around 147. His fight night weight is within three pounds of where it was when he was a 130 for God's sake. He just doesn't go through the degydration and rehydration process.

Hey, you are the one talking about Manny's so called incredible weight jumps and others are simply telling you that it isn't that cut and dry. I am doing the same thing, it might not fit your world view, but it's a fact that people like Mosley and Mayweather were just as small in comparison, but it's just that they were fighting in the amateurs. Manny's weight jumps are pretty impressive, but far from unique as a developing young man. Kids tend to grow and Manny was doing just that.

He is a natural WW today. That is where he is and that is where he is comfortable. We are told he eats babies to maintain weight etc and you are saying he can make 140 and maybe 135, so why not fight Marquez at 140? The truth is he is likely far more comfortable at WW as a 32 year old adult. We hear a lot of things from Manny's camp; he eats a lot of rice and so on, but so what? The man is a 2 year plus WW. If he were to actually fight at smaller weights I would reconsider, but I'm not so sure if I believe anything from his camp anymore.

[marbleheadmaui]

I don't see why he couldn't do that, but likewise I don't know why Pac couldn't fight him at 154 either. Marquez goes up two, but Pac can't go up one properly? Hmm. Double standards there methinks.
Martinez would be a smaller SMW, but it isn't a particularly mad thing to consider doing.

This is SUCH bullspit! Manny is in his TENTH division and you want him to go up more?

The equivalent for JMM would be for him to go to 168 or 175!

If Manny had turned pro at 21 after an amateur career like other fighters, he would not have started at such low weights. By the time he would have been fighting for a belt he would have been significantly heavier. Too much emphasis is placed on Manny starting at 4 ounces or whatever it was. He started so low because he was a hungry kid, that was all. He is a proper WW today. Just look at how starved he looks against Marquez in their last weigh in and compare it to today.

There is absolutely no reason why he couldn't test himself and try to fight Martinez at 154. The Marquez comparison is absurd.

That's simply nonsense. Manny is one of 5-6 teenaged champions. That MUST be taken into account in measuring Manny's greatness. Plus Manny is NOT a welterweight. He is merely fighting them. Manny eats like a horse right up to the weigh-in and drinks almost right up to it. Manny could make 140 by skipping a few meals and probably 135 without affecting his performance. Given today's day before weigh-ins welters come into the ring in the 155-160 range, Hell Ortiz came in at 161! Manny FIGHTS around 147. His fight night weight is within three pounds of where it was when he was a 130 for God's sake. He just doesn't go through the degydration and rehydration process.

Hey, you are the one talking about Manny's so called incredible weight jumps and others are simply telling you that it isn't that cut and dry. I am doing the same thing, it might not fit your world view, but it's a fact that people like Mosley and Mayweather were just as small in comparison, but it's just that they were fighting in the amateurs. Manny's weight jumps are pretty impressive, but far from unique as a developing young man. Kids tend to grow and Manny was doing just that.

He is a natural WW today. That is where he is and that is where he is comfortable. We are told he eats babies to maintain weight etc and you are saying he can make 140 and maybe 135, so why not fight Marquez at 140? The truth is he is likely far more comfortable at WW as a 32 year old adult. We hear a lot of things from Manny's camp; he eats a lot of rice and so on, but so what? The man is a 2 year plus WW. If he were to actually fight at smaller weights I would reconsider, but I'm not so sure if I believe anything from his camp anymore.

See it IS that cut and dry. WHY? Because while Floyd and Shane were fighting three round fights with headgear against other teenagers? Manny was defeating MEN in 12 round fights and winning a legitimate, lineal world championship! Sasakul was 27-28 that night by the way.

The only way to properly guage a fighter is by being the lightest he could be and still perform well. Why do you think Greb is always referred to as a middle despite dominating a generation of light heavies and often fighting around 165? Because he could always make 160 and defeat top guys (see his 158 weight to beat Mickey Walker). Manny is THE ONLY ranked welter in the world today who weighs in under the limit and fights almost right at it. EVERYONE else fights at 154 or above, in other words, as middleweights. BEING at welter and CHOOSING to fight them are two different things.

The measure that REALLY tells is the fight night weight. Manny and JMM are basically the same size.

Now I'd LOVE to see Manny go through the hassle of dehydrating to make 135 and rehydrate and take a crack at the lineal 135 title. But it seems it won't happen.

[generalbulldog]

I don't see why he couldn't do that, but likewise I don't know why Pac couldn't fight him at 154 either. Marquez goes up two, but Pac can't go up one properly? Hmm. Double standards there methinks.
Martinez would be a smaller SMW, but it isn't a particularly mad thing to consider doing.

This is SUCH bullspit! Manny is in his TENTH division and you want him to go up more?

The equivalent for JMM would be for him to go to 168 or 175!

If Manny had turned pro at 21 after an amateur career like other fighters, he would not have started at such low weights. By the time he would have been fighting for a belt he would have been significantly heavier. Too much emphasis is placed on Manny starting at 4 ounces or whatever it was. He started so low because he was a hungry kid, that was all. He is a proper WW today. Just look at how starved he looks against Marquez in their last weigh in and compare it to today.

There is absolutely no reason why he couldn't test himself and try to fight Martinez at 154. The Marquez comparison is absurd.

That's simply nonsense. Manny is one of 5-6 teenaged champions. That MUST be taken into account in measuring Manny's greatness. Plus Manny is NOT a welterweight. He is merely fighting them. Manny eats like a horse right up to the weigh-in and drinks almost right up to it. Manny could make 140 by skipping a few meals and probably 135 without affecting his performance. Given today's day before weigh-ins welters come into the ring in the 155-160 range, Hell Ortiz came in at 161! Manny FIGHTS around 147. His fight night weight is within three pounds of where it was when he was a 130 for God's sake. He just doesn't go through the degydration and rehydration process.

Hey, you are the one talking about Manny's so called incredible weight jumps and others are simply telling you that it isn't that cut and dry. I am doing the same thing, it might not fit your world view, but it's a fact that people like Mosley and Mayweather were just as small in comparison, but it's just that they were fighting in the amateurs. Manny's weight jumps are pretty impressive, but far from unique as a developing young man. Kids tend to grow and Manny was doing just that.

He is a natural WW today. That is where he is and that is where he is comfortable. We are told he eats babies to maintain weight etc and you are saying he can make 140 and maybe 135, so why not fight Marquez at 140? The truth is he is likely far more comfortable at WW as a 32 year old adult. We hear a lot of things from Manny's camp; he eats a lot of rice and so on, but so what? The man is a 2 year plus WW. If he were to actually fight at smaller weights I would reconsider, but I'm not so sure if I believe anything from his camp anymore.

See it IS that cut and dry. WHY? Because while Floyd and Shane were fighting three round fights with headgear against other teenagers? Manny was defeating MEN in 12 round fights and winning a legitimate, lineal world championship! Sasakul was 27-28 that night by the way.

The only way to properly guage a fighter is by being the lightest he could be and still perform well. Why do you think Greb is always referred to as a middle despite dominating a generation of light heavies and often fighting around 165? Because he could always make 160 and defeat top guys (see his 158 weight to beat Mickey Walker). Manny is THE ONLY ranked welter in the world today who weighs in under the limit and fights almost right at it. EVERYONE else fights at 154 or above, in other words, as middleweights. BEING at welter and CHOOSING to fight them are two different things.

The measure that REALLY tells is the fight night weight. Manny and JMM are basically the same size.

Now I'd LOVE to see Manny go through the hassle of dehydrating to make 135 and rehydrate and take a crack at the lineal 135 title. But it seems it won't happen.

Now I can see the argument that since Pacquiao was not a fully developed man yet and started fighting at such a low weight and then rising through the weights may not be as impressive as a grown man. But what people here have not mentioned and that you did was that Pacquaio was fighting fully developed men as a growing teenager. Not only that but to win a lineal championship (the real title) in only his teenage years is massively impressive. Only 5 other boxers have done this in boxing history. I can only name Canzoneri and Benitez as the other 2, the other 3 just escapes my mind right now.

[Mr140]

Well Mayweather comes in at 149 t0 150 fight night so how come he has to fight a cruiser weight. I mean i dont even like Mayweather but shit such a double standard its just in insane.

[marbleheadmaui]

Well Mayweather comes in at 149 t0 150 fight night so how come he has to fight a cruiser weight. I mean i dont even like Mayweather but shit such a double standard its just in insane.

Except Mayweather doesn't come in at that weight. Hell he violated his contract with JMM and wouldn't even try to make 144 the day before the fight.

The Math is pretty straightforward. Manny has fought across ten divisions. Floyd began as a 130. Ten divisions would be 130, 135, 140, 147, 154, 160, 168, 175 (that's only eight).

Try it another way. Manny has fought up 39% from his initial weight. 39% from 129 (Floyd's lowest) would be 179.

[generalbulldog]

I don't see why he couldn't do that, but likewise I don't know why Pac couldn't fight him at 154 either. Marquez goes up two, but Pac can't go up one properly? Hmm. Double standards there methinks.
Martinez would be a smaller SMW, but it isn't a particularly mad thing to consider doing.

This is SUCH bullspit! Manny is in his TENTH division and you want him to go up more?

The equivalent for JMM would be for him to go to 168 or 175!

If Manny had turned pro at 21 after an amateur career like other fighters, he would not have started at such low weights. By the time he would have been fighting for a belt he would have been significantly heavier. Too much emphasis is placed on Manny starting at 4 ounces or whatever it was. He started so low because he was a hungry kid, that was all. He is a proper WW today. Just look at how starved he looks against Marquez in their last weigh in and compare it to today.

There is absolutely no reason why he couldn't test himself and try to fight Martinez at 154. The Marquez comparison is absurd.

Martinez is on record saying he can't make 154, he says it would have to be at MW and he would oblige with a catchweight around 157-160. But we all know how you hate catchweights right, Miles?

And so what if Pacquiao doesn't want to jump another 2 weight classes into MW territory to fight Martinez? Is he a coward?