If Martinez is the best fighter in the sport how about fighting Ward, Kessler, Froch,

[Mr140]

Marbale when you say Manny jump all these divisions lets not forget he was not even full grown when you started boxing he was only 16 years of age. Not to crucial but if you 44 pounds means you jumped 10 divisions have far to many weight classes. I mean Holyfeild when he was a grown man was 177 when he started his career and fought guys who were 240 or 250 still manged to win some of them.

[blegit]

Marbale when you say Manny jump all these divisions lets not forget he was not even full grown when you started boxing he was only 16 years of age. Not to crucial but if you 44 pounds means you jumped 10 divisions have far to many weight classes. I mean Holyfeild when he was a grown man was 177 when he started his career and fought guys who were 240 or 250 still manged to win some of them.

Absolutely agree. People focus on the number of weight classes instead of the weight. I was a little guy coming up in boxing and I know all too well that there are way too many weight classes in the lower weights. I mean they're separated by 3 or 4 pounds. In the amateurs I would often box at 106, 112, and sometimes 119 throughout the year. If I were a professional I would have been fighting at 5 different weight classes in one year without even changing much in the size of guys! Henry Armstrong held down 3 weight classes and drew at the 4th one. But if we keep it real we look at the weight and what Armstrong did was go from 126 to 160, 4 weight classes, easily besting a 105 to 118 run which happens to be a ridiculous 5 different weight classes.

[blegit]

But back to the topic. We have to cut Martinez some slack here. Ward and Froch are tied up so lets not jump the gun. I think we should be lobbying for Martinez/Bute but I'm not so sure what Bute wants to do. He hasn't exactly been fighting anybody within a fair shot of beating him. And I can't see Martinez/Pac. Thats really just unfair for Pac and I'm sure his entire team will continue to steer clear of that unless they are just going to cash out.

[JazMerkin]

Marbale when you say Manny jump all these divisions lets not forget he was not even full grown when you started boxing he was only 16 years of age. Not to crucial but if you 44 pounds means you jumped 10 divisions have far to many weight classes. I mean Holyfeild when he was a grown man was 177 when he started his career and fought guys who were 240 or 250 still manged to win some of them.

Absolutely agree. People focus on the number of weight classes instead of the weight. I was a little guy coming up in boxing and I know all too well that there are way too many weight classes in the lower weights. I mean they're separated by 3 or 4 pounds. In the amateurs I would often box at 106, 112, and sometimes 119 throughout the year. If I were a professional I would have been fighting at 5 different weight classes in one year without even changing much in the size of guys! Henry Armstrong held down 3 weight classes and drew at the 4th one. But if we keep it real we look at the weight and what Armstrong did was go from 126 to 160, 4 weight classes, easily besting a 105 to 118 run which happens to be a ridiculous 5 different weight classes.

This. It's also worth pointing out that he went pro very early at 16, an age at which no one in the US or UK would even be allowed to. Obviously it varies very much person to person, but it's normally around this age that boxers start to grow. Mayweather at this age weighed around the same as Pacquiao I believe, while even someone like Amir Khan was only a Bantamweight. Like I say it varies, someone like Hatton actually fought at 67kg at the same age, but it's not really accurate to say Mayweather would have to jump to CW, more like he'd have to go to Middleweight based on where they both were at the ages of 18-19.

Anyway back to the topic, I think Martinez has some hope. If Macklin somehow beats Sturm, he's got an opponent to tide him by & there's always a rubber match with Williams. But him going up another division is not that unreasonable. If he has somehow become the P4P #1 (I don't believe he has), then he's done it with probably the thinnest resume of anyone in recent memory. That's not to put him down but Pacquiao, Mayweather, Hopkins, Jones & Mosley had all done significantly more to take the top spot.

[generalbulldog]

Marbale when you say Manny jump all these divisions lets not forget he was not even full grown when you started boxing he was only 16 years of age. Not to crucial but if you 44 pounds means you jumped 10 divisions have far to many weight classes. I mean Holyfeild when he was a grown man was 177 when he started his career and fought guys who were 240 or 250 still manged to win some of them.

Absolutely agree. People focus on the number of weight classes instead of the weight. I was a little guy coming up in boxing and I know all too well that there are way too many weight classes in the lower weights. I mean they're separated by 3 or 4 pounds. In the amateurs I would often box at 106, 112, and sometimes 119 throughout the year. If I were a professional I would have been fighting at 5 different weight classes in one year without even changing much in the size of guys! Henry Armstrong held down 3 weight classes and drew at the 4th one. But if we keep it real we look at the weight and what Armstrong did was go from 126 to 160, 4 weight classes, easily besting a 105 to 118 run which happens to be a ridiculous 5 different weight classes.

105 to 118 might be separated by 5 weight classes, but name me the guys that managed to win at least 1 of the major 4 world titles in those classes as they were moving through? If it's so easy there should be multiple guys doing it right?

The answer is it's not. Little men are built differently. Someone with great knowledge in the fight game told me that their body weight and physiology is different than higher weight fighters that's why 3 pounds is very significant. The average casual boxing fan thinks that 3 pounds is nothing, but if it wasn't boxing history would have guys that went through 5-6 of those small weight classes like it's nothing.

Prime example, Vic Darchinyan. He was a monster at 112 and 115 but doesn't look that great at 118. The average boxing fan without too much knowledge might think 112-118 is only 6 pounds and it's nothing, when for the lower weight guys it is significant.

[marbleheadmaui]

Marbale when you say Manny jump all these divisions lets not forget he was not even full grown when you started boxing he was only 16 years of age. Not to crucial but if you 44 pounds means you jumped 10 divisions have far to many weight classes. I mean Holyfeild when he was a grown man was 177 when he started his career and fought guys who were 240 or 250 still manged to win some of them.

Absolutely agree. People focus on the number of weight classes instead of the weight. I was a little guy coming up in boxing and I know all too well that there are way too many weight classes in the lower weights. I mean they're separated by 3 or 4 pounds. In the amateurs I would often box at 106, 112, and sometimes 119 throughout the year. If I were a professional I would have been fighting at 5 different weight classes in one year without even changing much in the size of guys! Henry Armstrong held down 3 weight classes and drew at the 4th one. But if we keep it real we look at the weight and what Armstrong did was go from 126 to 160, 4 weight classes, easily besting a 105 to 118 run which happens to be a ridiculous 5 different weight classes.

It doesn't matter how we do the numbers. Manny is fighting over 39% higher than where he began (106 to a 147 weight class). Armstrong did 33% (120 to a 160 weight class).

In addition Manny has beaten a number of ranked guys at 147, Homicide Hank only fought at 160 once IIRC.

[JazMerkin]

Marbale when you say Manny jump all these divisions lets not forget he was not even full grown when you started boxing he was only 16 years of age. Not to crucial but if you 44 pounds means you jumped 10 divisions have far to many weight classes. I mean Holyfeild when he was a grown man was 177 when he started his career and fought guys who were 240 or 250 still manged to win some of them.

Absolutely agree. People focus on the number of weight classes instead of the weight. I was a little guy coming up in boxing and I know all too well that there are way too many weight classes in the lower weights. I mean they're separated by 3 or 4 pounds. In the amateurs I would often box at 106, 112, and sometimes 119 throughout the year. If I were a professional I would have been fighting at 5 different weight classes in one year without even changing much in the size of guys! Henry Armstrong held down 3 weight classes and drew at the 4th one. But if we keep it real we look at the weight and what Armstrong did was go from 126 to 160, 4 weight classes, easily besting a 105 to 118 run which happens to be a ridiculous 5 different weight classes.

It doesn't matter how we do the numbers. Manny is fighting over 39% higher than where he began (106 to a 147 weight class). Armstrong did 33% (120 to a 160 weight class).

In addition Manny has beaten a number of ranked guys at 147, Homicide Hank only fought at 160 once IIRC.

Right, but Armstrong was also 19 or 20 (I may be wrong) when he began his pro career so that needs to be taken into account. Manny began at a 106, but he'd already gone up 113 within a year of his pro debut. At 19 he was a 122lber.

Also you're talking about ranked guys, well Pacquiao didn't beat anyone at Super-Flyweight, but you seem to be giving him credit for it. I may be misunderstanding your argument, but surely the fact that Armstrong fought a MW weighing in as a small welter is just as impressive.

[marbleheadmaui]

Marbale when you say Manny jump all these divisions lets not forget he was not even full grown when you started boxing he was only 16 years of age. Not to crucial but if you 44 pounds means you jumped 10 divisions have far to many weight classes. I mean Holyfeild when he was a grown man was 177 when he started his career and fought guys who were 240 or 250 still manged to win some of them.

Absolutely agree. People focus on the number of weight classes instead of the weight. I was a little guy coming up in boxing and I know all too well that there are way too many weight classes in the lower weights. I mean they're separated by 3 or 4 pounds. In the amateurs I would often box at 106, 112, and sometimes 119 throughout the year. If I were a professional I would have been fighting at 5 different weight classes in one year without even changing much in the size of guys! Henry Armstrong held down 3 weight classes and drew at the 4th one. But if we keep it real we look at the weight and what Armstrong did was go from 126 to 160, 4 weight classes, easily besting a 105 to 118 run which happens to be a ridiculous 5 different weight classes.

It doesn't matter how we do the numbers. Manny is fighting over 39% higher than where he began (106 to a 147 weight class). Armstrong did 33% (120 to a 160 weight class).

In addition Manny has beaten a number of ranked guys at 147, Homicide Hank only fought at 160 once IIRC.

Right, but Armstrong was also 19 or 20 (I may be wrong) when he began his pro career so that needs to be taken into account. Manny began at a 106, but he'd already gone up 113 within a year of his pro debut. At 19 he was a 122lber.

Also you're talking about ranked guys, well Pacquiao didn't beat anyone at Super-Flyweight, but you seem to be giving him credit for it. I may be misunderstanding your argument, but surely the fact that Armstrong fought a MW weighing in as a small welter is just as impressive.

Let's be really clear. I consider what Armstrong did the most impressive accomplishment in the history of boxing. Nothing Manny has done is close in my view.

My issue is each time Manny jumps a hurdle few have done (and I've chosen the division description, though as I've demonstrated it doesn't really matter how one cuts the numbers, the results must be termed astonishingly impressive) some folks want to the start over and say "But Manny's only jumping 1-2 divisions what is the big deal?" without giving any credit for where Manny began or what he has already done.