Two Questions

[Violent Demise]

How do you define an "all-time great" and what is your criteria?

In your opinion how many have there been since John L. Sullivan?

I'll do my answers later. I want to see the gang's opinion.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Great topic and great question.

The criteria I use and it’s by no means a fixed one is,

Actual performance in the squared circle.
Dominance
Outcomes and achievements
Historic comparison or how they would match up with others.

Post John L all time greats; well I suppose you will get more of my feelings on all time greats and what makes one from my list. Quite subjective as someone already mentioned. I’m going to forget some to be sure.

Since Sullivan and in somewhat chronological order and again this topic is about as
subjective as subjective can be. Others may differ and thats cool.

The man in your Av Jeffries even though he never had that many fights.
Dixon
Dempsey
Leonard
Walker
Greb
Gans
Langford
Villa
Wilde
Tunney
Carpentier
Firpo
Lynch
Levinsky
Kid Lewis
Britton
Tendler
Loughran
Wolgast
Rosenbloom
Kid Chocolate
Kid Berg
Armstrong
Conn
Pep
Ortiz
Ross
Baer
Zale
Arizmendi
Louis
Ambers
Escobar
Robinson
Walcott
Charles
Cerdan
Saddler
Gavilan
Maxim
Moore
Burley
Basilio
Elorde
Jofre
Patterson
Griffith
Ortiz C
Liston
Harada
Saldivar
Locche
Olivares
Buchanan
Monzon
Napoles
Foster
Duran
Cervantes
Benitez
Foreman
Ali
Gomez
Arguello
Hagler
Hearns
Leonard
Tyson
Rosario
Chavez
Spinks M
Fenech
Jones Jr. How he looks today is not relevant
Tito
Lewis
Calzaghe
Hopkins Still fighting but he’s an ATG.
Oscar
Mab? Still fighting
Morales? Ditto
Calderon Ditto he was pretty dominant but was stuck in the wrong weight class.

Your out of your mind if you consider them guys ATG's. I'm a huge Rosario fan. But I can't bring myself to call or consider him an ATG.

[IamInuit]

How do you define an "all-time great" and what is your criteria?

In your opinion how many have there been since John L. Sullivan?

I'll do my answers later. I want to see the gang's opinion.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Great topic and great question.

The criteria I use and it’s by no means a fixed one is,

Actual performance in the squared circle.
Dominance
Outcomes and achievements
Historic comparison or how they would match up with others.

Post John L all time greats; well I suppose you will get more of my feelings on all time greats and what makes one from my list. Quite subjective as someone already mentioned. I’m going to forget some to be sure.

Since Sullivan and in somewhat chronological order and again this topic is about as
subjective as subjective can be. Others may differ and thats cool.

The man in your Av Jeffries even though he never had that many fights.
Dixon
Dempsey
Leonard
Walker
Greb
Gans
Langford
Villa
Wilde
Tunney
Carpentier
Firpo
Lynch
Levinsky
Kid Lewis
Britton
Tendler
Loughran
Wolgast
Rosenbloom
Kid Chocolate
Kid Berg
Armstrong
Conn
Pep
Ortiz
Ross
Baer
Zale
Arizmendi
Louis
Ambers
Escobar
Robinson
Walcott
Charles
Cerdan
Saddler
Gavilan
Maxim
Moore
Burley
Basilio
Elorde
Jofre
Patterson
Griffith
Ortiz C
Liston
Harada
Saldivar
Locche
Olivares
Buchanan
Monzon
Napoles
Foster
Duran
Cervantes
Benitez
Foreman
Ali
Gomez
Arguello
Hagler
Hearns
Leonard
Tyson
Rosario
Chavez
Spinks M
Fenech
Jones Jr. How he looks today is not relevant
Tito
Lewis
Calzaghe
Hopkins Still fighting but he’s an ATG.
Oscar
Mab? Still fighting
Morales? Ditto
Calderon Ditto he was pretty dominant but was stuck in the wrong weight class.

Your out of your mind if you consider them guys ATG's. I'm a huge Rosario fan. But I can't bring myself to call or consider him an ATG.

Thats your opinion and you are welcome to it. I guess I'm out of my mind. Brilliant response.

[Violent Demise]

Thats your opinion and you are welcome to it. I guess I'm out of my mind. Brilliant response.

Some of them have been discussed in countless debates. I don't need to go over them again. So how about you be kind enough and tell what makes Jeff Fenech an ATG

[IamInuit]

Thats your opinion and you are welcome to it. I guess I'm out of my mind. Brilliant response.

Some of them have been discussed in countless debates. I don't need to go over them again. So how about you be kind enough and tell what makes Jeff Fenech an ATG

I said from the the start that this topic is subjective and people might disagree. So I'll just leave it at that. He's in the hall of fame and is a three division champion. Again like I said I made my list and never expected it to be perfect.

So who are the other ATG's since Sullivan iyo? Run down your list since 1879.

[Violent Demise]

Thats your opinion and you are welcome to it. I guess I'm out of my mind. Brilliant response.

Some of them have been discussed in countless debates. I don't need to go over them again. So how about you be kind enough and tell what makes Jeff Fenech an ATG

I said from the the start that this topic is subjective and people might disagree. So I'll just leave it at that. He's in the hall of fame and is a three division champion. Again like I said I made my list and never expected it to be perfect.

So who are the other ATG's since Sullivan iyo? Run down your list since 1879.

You got most of them them. So there's no need to repeat them. I already stated I would exclude Patterson, Buchanan, Rosario, Fenech, Calzaghe and Calderon from your list. And it really that's not hard to do. While they may be HOF I can't for the life of me make a case for any of them being ATG's. And that bothers me saying that about Rosario. But it is what it is. A couple of fighters absent from your list that I feel are without a doubt ATG's are Pernell Whitaker, Ricardo Lopez, Juan Manuel Marquez, Ike Williams, Eusebio Pedroza, Carlos Zarate and Bob Foster. I understand Boxings had many great fighters. And there's always gonna be some left out of some lists. But really I'm always shocked when I see Whitaker and Lopez left off.

[IamInuit]

Thats your opinion and you are welcome to it. I guess I'm out of my mind. Brilliant response.

Some of them have been discussed in countless debates. I don't need to go over them again. So how about you be kind enough and tell what makes Jeff Fenech an ATG

I said from the the start that this topic is subjective and people might disagree. So I'll just leave it at that. He's in the hall of fame and is a three division champion. Again like I said I made my list and never expected it to be perfect.

So who are the other ATG's since Sullivan iyo? Run down your list since 1879.

You got most of them them. So there's no need to repeat them. I already stated I would exclude Patterson, Buchanan, Rosario, Fenech, Calzaghe and Calderon from your list. And it really that's not hard to do. While they may be HOF I can't for the life of me make a case for any of them being ATG's. And that bothers me saying that about Rosario. But it is what it is. A couple of fighters absent from your list that I feel are without a doubt ATG's are Pernell Whitaker, Ricardo Lopez, Juan Manuel Marquez, Ike Williams, Eusebio Pedroza, Carlos Zarate and Bob Foster. I understand Boxings had many great fighters. And there's always gonna be some left out of some lists. But really I'm always shocked when I see Whitaker and Lopez left off.

Fair enough.

[Mr140]

Atg list are hard I mean to me Ali should be rated above Robinson. I said this before and say it again if you are heavyweight champion of the world means he could beat pretty much anybody. Since Ali is probably rated best heavyweight in the history of sport then I think he is greatest not Robinson. I have few other things i look at when trying to figure who i consider a atg but i will have to get back to you.