Pick Your Punch

[Spicoli]

I have to ask, in this case it's an extraordinary punch, a given that is natural? Isn't the jab the basic of fundamental and first taught...as opposed to other shots with more of a pay off and higher difficulty to master?

Do you want Frazier or Virgil Hill .....then again Ruddock and jab were never mistaken for close buds I suppose

The effective jab is actually the hardest thing to teach but those who master it make it look basic and fundamental.

Well yeh. Everything off the jab indeed. Was just thinking of freeing up closet space to focus on foundation of my Frankenstein. All comes down to balance with it huh? A sharp cutting jab is a beautiful thing to watch

I think of Lewis. Not only was it a perfect set up for his right hand but it was also a jack hammer.

Exactly. Had good tempo with it...paw it for range-feel or stuff it. And in the case of Tua use it as masterclass.

[marbleheadmaui]

I have to ask, in this case it's an extraordinary punch, a given that is natural? Isn't the jab the basic of fundamental and first taught...as opposed to other shots with more of a pay off and higher difficulty to master?

Do you want Frazier or Virgil Hill .....then again Ruddock and jab were never mistaken for close buds I suppose

The effective jab is actually the hardest thing to teach but those who master it make it look basic and fundamental.

Well yeh. Everything off the jab indeed. Was just thinking of freeing up closet space to focus on foundation of my Frankenstein. All comes down to balance with it huh? A sharp cutting jab is a beautiful thing to watch

I think of Lewis. Not only was it a perfect set up for his right hand but it was also a jack hammer.

Exactly. Had good tempo with it...paw it for range-feel or stuff it. And in the case of Tua use it as masterclass.

I don't think there is a fighter in history that people see greatness in that just eludes me as much as Lennox Lewis. He had a serviceable jab. Hell Evander outjabbed him!

I don't know if it's a blind spot I have or the rest of you are related to Ray Charles

[Spicoli]

I have to ask, in this case it's an extraordinary punch, a given that is natural? Isn't the jab the basic of fundamental and first taught...as opposed to other shots with more of a pay off and higher difficulty to master?

Do you want Frazier or Virgil Hill .....then again Ruddock and jab were never mistaken for close buds I suppose

The effective jab is actually the hardest thing to teach but those who master it make it look basic and fundamental.

Well yeh. Everything off the jab indeed. Was just thinking of freeing up closet space to focus on foundation of my Frankenstein. All comes down to balance with it huh? A sharp cutting jab is a beautiful thing to watch

I think of Lewis. Not only was it a perfect set up for his right hand but it was also a jack hammer.

Exactly. Had good tempo with it...paw it for range-feel or stuff it. And in the case of Tua use it as masterclass.

I don't think there is a fighter in history that people see greatness in that just eludes me as much as Lennox Lewis. He had a serviceable jab. Hell Evander out jabbed him!

I don't know if it's a blind spot I have or the rest of you are related to Ray Charles

I've struggled with greatness and Lewis in the same room as well but the man had some serious arsenal to accompany his slooow evolution from a new born gazzel with two left feet of a young hvy all the way to a pure jab clinic he put on a 'meh' Tua. He's grown on me as a fighter...might have been picking Mercer, Ruddock, Tua, Bruno, Jackson (), Rahman to beat him. For me Holyfield did that in 2nd fight, but jab or no jab the draw in 1st was garbage. Holy was a boxing fool with snap jab when on point over career but more often then not got sucked into battle. Lennox was a wise man too.

His flaws and non preparation came back to bite him on the ass, I believe in full hindsight it over shadows for some the mans game and career. Can't blame detractors but his losses were avenged, cant ask for more then that. He could be to calm, too mellow but equally methodical and devastating vs Ruddock, Golota, Morrison, Tyson etc. You'll find bigger defenders of him then me but hard jab was more then a whisper and what it set up left marks.
and Ray was a legend

[marbleheadmaui]

I have to ask, in this case it's an extraordinary punch, a given that is natural? Isn't the jab the basic of fundamental and first taught...as opposed to other shots with more of a pay off and higher difficulty to master?

Do you want Frazier or Virgil Hill .....then again Ruddock and jab were never mistaken for close buds I suppose

The effective jab is actually the hardest thing to teach but those who master it make it look basic and fundamental.

Well yeh. Everything off the jab indeed. Was just thinking of freeing up closet space to focus on foundation of my Frankenstein. All comes down to balance with it huh? A sharp cutting jab is a beautiful thing to watch

I think of Lewis. Not only was it a perfect set up for his right hand but it was also a jack hammer.

Exactly. Had good tempo with it...paw it for range-feel or stuff it. And in the case of Tua use it as masterclass.

I don't think there is a fighter in history that people see greatness in that just eludes me as much as Lennox Lewis. He had a serviceable jab. Hell Evander out jabbed him!

I don't know if it's a blind spot I have or the rest of you are related to Ray Charles

I've struggled with greatness and Lewis in the same room as well but the man had some serious arsenal to accompany his slooow evolution from a new born gazzel with two left feet of a young hvy all the way to a pure jab clinic he put on a 'meh' Tua. He's grown on me as a fighter...might have been picking Mercer, Ruddock, Tua, Bruno, Jackson (), Rahman to beat him. For me Holyfield did that in 2nd fight, but jab or no jab the draw in 1st was garbage. Holy was a boxing fool with snap jab when on point over career but more often then not got sucked into battle. Lennox was a wise man too.

His flaws and non preparation came back to bite him on the ass, I believe in full hindsight it over shadows for some the mans game and career. Can't blame detractors but his losses were avenged, cant ask for more then that. He could be to calm, too mellow but equally methodical and devastating vs Ruddock, Golota, Morrison, Tyson etc. You'll find bigger defenders of him then me but hard jab was more then a whisper and what it set up left marks.
and Ray was a legend

Nicely put all around. I had the pleasure of seeing Mr. Charles perform live I also think What'd I Say is the single greatest song ever sung!

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

The Creator has decreed you will become a professional fighter with unremarkable height, reach, speed, chin, reflexes, power, defense, balance, footwork and spatial awareness. All those are good enough to allow you to compete with the top 20 or so guys in your division, but nothing special.

But THEN you get a choice. You can choose ONE punch (jab, hook to the body, straight right etc) which will be extraordinary. If you choose the jab it will be quick, hard, straight and able to be thrown in doubles and triples. If a hook to the body it will dig deep and accurately land on vulnerable spots and so on and so forth.

What dominant punch do you choose and why?

You couldn't have unremarkable balance, footwork & spatial awareness & then have one great punch imo. Certainly not the jab. Great spatial awareness is key to having any excellent punch, as it's how your measure those crucial inches to get a punch landing just right. Footwork is also a must as you create those angles to land that punch.

I was gonna say a gut busting, momentum halting jab to the body but then I thought the same thing. You can't be expected to maneuver in such a way with only average athletic abilities.

But yeah for the sake of having some fun, I'd say a jab downstairs because the way I see it, If I was incredibly average, I'd want to stall, offset and slow my opponent down as much as possible and so I assume the punch that can do all of those things is a gut busting, momentum halting jab to the body

[Manos de Piedra]

The Creator has decreed you will become a professional fighter with unremarkable height, reach, speed, chin, reflexes, power, defense, balance, footwork and spatial awareness. All those are good enough to allow you to compete with the top 20 or so guys in your division, but nothing special.

But THEN you get a choice. You can choose ONE punch (jab, hook to the body, straight right etc) which will be extraordinary. If you choose the jab it will be quick, hard, straight and able to be thrown in doubles and triples. If a hook to the body it will dig deep and accurately land on vulnerable spots and so on and so forth.

What dominant punch do you choose and why?

I couldn't decide between jab and left hook to the body. The jab can alone win you fights but you need a bit more than unremarkable attributes to succeed with just one good punch. This can be a new thread, Is there an ATG fighter with unremarkable attributes and had one great punch?? nobody better to ask than marble himself.

[Master]

Larry Holmes had the best jab of all, Joe Louis had accuracy, Liston had power, Lewis had point scoring, Ali had speed but Holmes was all that and more. He varied the speed; it was piercing and caused damage like no other.

[IamInuit]

I have to ask, in this case it's an extraordinary punch, a given that is natural? Isn't the jab the basic of fundamental and first taught...as opposed to other shots with more of a pay off and higher difficulty to master?

Do you want Frazier or Virgil Hill .....then again Ruddock and jab were never mistaken for close buds I suppose

The effective jab is actually the hardest thing to teach but those who master it make it look basic and fundamental.

Well yeh. Everything off the jab indeed. Was just thinking of freeing up closet space to focus on foundation of my Frankenstein. All comes down to balance with it huh? A sharp cutting jab is a beautiful thing to watch

I think of Lewis. Not only was it a perfect set up for his right hand but it was also a jack hammer.

Exactly. Had good tempo with it...paw it for range-feel or stuff it. And in the case of Tua use it as masterclass.

I don't think there is a fighter in history that people see greatness in that just eludes me as much as Lennox Lewis. He had a serviceable jab. Hell Evander outjabbed him!

I don't know if it's a blind spot I have or the rest of you are related to Ray Charles

Lol yeah chances are everyone else is blind and you are the only one that can see it A workable jab? It was a missle for such a big man and when it arrived it was like a Mack truck. Lewis had motivational issues. He probably a pot head but imo he's a great. I may not rank him at the top of any all time great list but I think a motivated Lewis has the potential on any given day to beat anyone in history.

[marbleheadmaui]

The Creator has decreed you will become a professional fighter with unremarkable height, reach, speed, chin, reflexes, power, defense, balance, footwork and spatial awareness. All those are good enough to allow you to compete with the top 20 or so guys in your division, but nothing special.

But THEN you get a choice. You can choose ONE punch (jab, hook to the body, straight right etc) which will be extraordinary. If you choose the jab it will be quick, hard, straight and able to be thrown in doubles and triples. If a hook to the body it will dig deep and accurately land on vulnerable spots and so on and so forth.

What dominant punch do you choose and why?

I couldn't decide between jab and left hook to the body. The jab can alone win you fights but you need a bit more than unremarkable attributes to succeed with just one good punch. This can be a new thread, Is there an ATG fighter with unremarkable attributes and had one great punch?? nobody better to ask than marble himself.

HAH! I think I've been hoisted on my own petard! If I wanted to stretch the point I'd say Marciano and Suzie Q, but the Rock had some other serious gifts. Pipino Cuevas maybe? The left hook from hell? Pipino isn't an ATG. I think you guys have made a critical point that I ignored and shouldn't have.

[marbleheadmaui]

I have to ask, in this case it's an extraordinary punch, a given that is natural? Isn't the jab the basic of fundamental and first taught...as opposed to other shots with more of a pay off and higher difficulty to master?

Do you want Frazier or Virgil Hill .....then again Ruddock and jab were never mistaken for close buds I suppose

The effective jab is actually the hardest thing to teach but those who master it make it look basic and fundamental.

Well yeh. Everything off the jab indeed. Was just thinking of freeing up closet space to focus on foundation of my Frankenstein. All comes down to balance with it huh? A sharp cutting jab is a beautiful thing to watch

I think of Lewis. Not only was it a perfect set up for his right hand but it was also a jack hammer.

Exactly. Had good tempo with it...paw it for range-feel or stuff it. And in the case of Tua use it as masterclass.

I don't think there is a fighter in history that people see greatness in that just eludes me as much as Lennox Lewis. He had a serviceable jab. Hell Evander outjabbed him!

I don't know if it's a blind spot I have or the rest of you are related to Ray Charles

Lol yeah chances are everyone else is blind and you are the only one that can see it A workable jab? It was a missle for such a big man and when it arrived it was like a Mack truck. Lewis had motivational issues. He probably a pot head but imo he's a great. I may not rank him at the top of any all time great list but I think a motivated Lewis has the potential on any given day to beat anyone in history.

Unless one's name is Einstein that belief just never works too well does it?

[IamInuit]

I have to ask, in this case it's an extraordinary punch, a given that is natural? Isn't the jab the basic of fundamental and first taught...as opposed to other shots with more of a pay off and higher difficulty to master?

Do you want Frazier or Virgil Hill .....then again Ruddock and jab were never mistaken for close buds I suppose

The effective jab is actually the hardest thing to teach but those who master it make it look basic and fundamental.

Well yeh. Everything off the jab indeed. Was just thinking of freeing up closet space to focus on foundation of my Frankenstein. All comes down to balance with it huh? A sharp cutting jab is a beautiful thing to watch

I think of Lewis. Not only was it a perfect set up for his right hand but it was also a jack hammer.

Exactly. Had good tempo with it...paw it for range-feel or stuff it. And in the case of Tua use it as masterclass.

I don't think there is a fighter in history that people see greatness in that just eludes me as much as Lennox Lewis. He had a serviceable jab. Hell Evander outjabbed him!

I don't know if it's a blind spot I have or the rest of you are related to Ray Charles

Lol yeah chances are everyone else is blind and you are the only one that can see it A workable jab? It was a missle for such a big man and when it arrived it was like a Mack truck. Lewis had motivational issues. He probably a pot head but imo he's a great. I may not rank him at the top of any all time great list but I think a motivated Lewis has the potential on any given day to beat anyone in history.

Unless one's name is Einstein that belief just never works too well does it?

That's one way to put it.

[greynotsoold]

Way back when, I sparred a guy that beat an olympic medalist for the NABF title. He lost a fight for the WBO LHW title and he said my left hook was world class. In El Paso, Winky Wright told me that I had the best left hook he'd ever seen a white guy throw. I'll go with my left hook.

[IamInuit]

Eddie Futch
Ray Arcel.
Gil Glancy
Angelo Dundee
Jack Blackburn
George Benton

Whether they taught it or feared it, it was all about the jab.

[Eloking]

Ruddock's Smash, for the fun of it