Roy Jones, where did it all go wrong?

[marbleheadmaui]

[shrugs]

Roy got old and his game was based on talent not skill, so when the talent faded? It had no support.

BTW, in my view Roy's decline began two years before he faced Ruiz.

In terms of thinking about Roy though the last 6-7 years judt don't mean much. Everyone gets old.

[rjj tszyu]

[shrugs]

Roy got old and his game was based on talent not skill, so when the talent faded? It had no support.

BTW, in my view Roy's decline began two years before he faced Ruiz.

In terms of thinking about Roy though the last 6-7 years judt don't mean much. Everyone gets old.

Exactly, everyone gets old and it just happens to everyone at different times. Someone who is as unorthodox as Jones who relies on speed and reflexes so much is always going to age quicker than others.

I do think Roy had skill though, his ability to deliver a punch was awesome as well as his ability to put them together in combos. His problem was he was so unorthodox and non textbook in the way he fought in the ring that when his reflexes and speed did fall, so did he.

I think the weight loss aged him too but I do agree he was already showing signs before that fight. Eric Harding was the first fight I thought he was starting to decline.

[greynotsoold]

RJJ was not by any means an "ATG" He couldn't fight much and he benefited from an incredibly weak era. In the 1930s/40s and so on he is, at best, an 8 round fighter,.

[ICB]

RJJ was not by any means an "ATG" He couldn't fight much and he benefited from an incredibly weak era. In the 1930s/40s and so on he is, at best, an 8 round fighter,.

Really ?

[marbleheadmaui]

RJJ was not by any means an "ATG" He couldn't fight much and he benefited from an incredibly weak era. In the 1930s/40s and so on he is, at best, an 8 round fighter,.

If you took the say 1997 Roy and just dumped him into the late 1970's or the 1940's he'd have gotten whacked around. His technical flaws would have been red meat for those guys.

But think about this. Roy Jones being born in 1915 and taking up the sport as a ten year old. He gets trained at Stillman's by a guy like Arcel or Goldman or Jack Blackburn so he is technically sound, gets tempered the way fighters did then and still retains his otherworldly athleticism?

WOW!

[Master]

RJJ was not by any means an "ATG" He couldn't fight much and he benefited from an incredibly weak era. In the 1930s/40s and so on he is, at best, an 8 round fighter,.

If you took the say 1997 Roy and just dumped him into the late 1970's or the 1940's he'd have gotten whacked around. His technical flaws would have been red meat for those guys.

But think about this. Roy Jones being born in 1915 and taking up the sport as a ten year old. He gets trained at Stillman's by a guy like Arcel or Goldman or Jack Blackburn so he is technically sound, gets tempered the way fighters did then and still retains his otherworldly athleticism?

WOW!

Disagree about Roy getting beaten in the 70's and 40's he could live in any era and be a good if not great fighter. You could say Ali was technically poor but he still beat the best, Roy was the same at his peak.

[marbleheadmaui]

RJJ was not by any means an "ATG" He couldn't fight much and he benefited from an incredibly weak era. In the 1930s/40s and so on he is, at best, an 8 round fighter,.

If you took the say 1997 Roy and just dumped him into the late 1970's or the 1940's he'd have gotten whacked around. His technical flaws would have been red meat for those guys.

But think about this. Roy Jones being born in 1915 and taking up the sport as a ten year old. He gets trained at Stillman's by a guy like Arcel or Goldman or Jack Blackburn so he is technically sound, gets tempered the way fighters did then and still retains his otherworldly athleticism?

WOW!

Disagree about Roy getting beaten in the 70's and 40's he could live in any era and be a good if not great fighter. You could say Ali was technically poor but he still beat the best, Roy was the same at his peak.

The difference was Ali's technical mistakes rarely cost him a fight in the greatest era the heavies have ever known. The Jones mistakes rarely cost him a fight in a mediocre era for 175's. Now we're dropping him into a great era/s. Who knows? But what he proved clearly wasn't the same as Ali.

We watched a decent example of how craft and tenacity can overcome superior speed, power, reflexes etc this past weekend in Montreal didn't we?

[JonesJrMayweather]

technically flawed? the 70s or 40s? GTFOH

It's getting a bit absurd that everyone rides off giving passed to the old era guys simply because they were first. In fact it's basically almost unspoken that no new fighter will ever surpass the old guys. There's always some excuse to discredit the evolution of the sport.

RJJ, FLOYD, PAC, BHOP, SWEET PEA, to name a few would compete and be great in any era.

RJJ vs those old slower plodders around his division would be smacked around. Everyone makes it seem as if because he was unorthodox that he didn't know how to box. He rarely lost rounds because he maximized his abilities. Technical skills or not if they couldn't hit him it was rendered useless, ask reggie johnson about his technical skills, or virgil hill. Plus RJJ had tremendous power between 160-168 so its not like he was some flashy guy that couldn't hurt someone. Once Roy tagged anyone from any era and they witnessed first hand his speed it would instantly change their game plan.

[Master]

Peak Roy could live with Ezzard Charles, Foster and Spinks and that was not his best weight.

[marbleheadmaui]

technically flawed? the 70s or 40s? GTFOH

It's getting a bit absurd that everyone rides off giving passed to the old era guys simply because they were first. In fact it's basically almost unspoken that no new fighter will ever surpass the old guys. There's always some excuse to discredit the evolution of the sport.

RJJ, FLOYD, PAC, BHOP, SWEET PEA, to name a few would compete and be great in any era.

RJJ vs those old slower plodders around his division would be smacked around. Everyone makes it seem as if because he was unorthodox that he didn't know how to box. He rarely lost rounds because he maximized his abilities. Technical skills or not if they could hit him it was rendered useless, ask reggie johnson about his technical skills, or virgil hill. Plus RJJ had tremendous power between 160-168 so its not like he was some flashy guy that could hurt someone. Once Roy tagged anyone from any era and they witnessed first hand his speed it would instantly change their game plan.

You're missing an essential point. Several actually. First calling Ezzard, Archie, Billy Fox, Jack Chase, Marvin Johnson, Mike Spinks, Victor Galindez etc slow plodders is really, really wrong. Second, speed, power etc can be nullified by superior craft. Let me make an analogy. Every year coming out of college there are a series of 6'2, 200 pound wide outs who can run 4.4 forties and jump out of the stadium. And every year a bunch crash and burn in camp. Why? Because they don't have the technique to a) even get off the line of scrimmage against a good corner b) recognize what defense is being played and/or c) how to disuise what pattern they are running. Athleticism without craft doesn't work all that well. Jerry Rice wasn't the biggest, or fastest or strongest but he knew how to play.

I find it fascinating that guys as diverse as Teddy Atlas, Freddie Roach, Dan Cuoco, Rollie Hackmer and Skeeter McClure think guys like Moore, Charles, Billy Conn, Harold Johnson would handle Roy without too much trouble.

[marbleheadmaui]

[shrugs]

Roy got old and his game was based on talent not skill, so when the talent faded? It had no support.

BTW, in my view Roy's decline began two years before he faced Ruiz.

In terms of thinking about Roy though the last 6-7 years judt don't mean much. Everyone gets old.

Exactly, everyone gets old and it just happens to everyone at different times. Someone who is as unorthodox as Jones who relies on speed and reflexes so much is always going to age quicker than others.

I do think Roy had skill though, his ability to deliver a punch was awesome as well as his ability to put them together in combos. His problem was he was so unorthodox and non textbook in the way he fought in the ring that when his reflexes and speed did fall, so did he.

I think the weight loss aged him too but I do agree he was already showing signs before that fight. Eric Harding was the first fight I thought he was starting to decline.

BINGO! The Harding fight is the one where I looked at my brother and said "We're never going to see THAT Roy Jones again. His legs have started going."

One quibble. It wasn't that Roy's style was unorthodox that was the problem. It was that it was unsound. It required superman reflexes and speed.

Look I hammer Roy all the time it seems, but what he did to James Toney and that right to the body with which he destroyed Virgil shouild never be forgotten.

[Mars_ax]

No offense to his fans or anyone else on this forum, but I don't get all the interest in, and multiple daily threads about Roy Jones Jr.. He hasn't been worth a shit for the last 7 or 8 years, and during that time, his record in his last 12 fights, has been a dismal 5 wins and 7 losses, 4 by KO. So what gives? Pardon me if this shit bores the fuck outta me.

[Boxer4life]

in case u did forget






everyone gets old, and roy made the mistake of fucking his body up as he got old, that caused him to get cloked and never recover from that damage, but appreciate the man for what he has brought us.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Gorilla Productions are so awesome!

[JonesJrMayweather]

GOAT... I love the song by LL.