Is the Game Up for Lance Armstrong?

[CFH]

It's one thing when caught cheaters Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton claim Lance used. It is another when the highly respected George Hincapie, never caught and Armstrong's closes riding buddy says "Lance and I used together."

I think the jig is up.

And it doesn't surprise me in the least.

These PED's WORK! Ordinarily the gap between top competitors at a world class level is measured in a fraction of 1%. Pretty clearly these drugs improve performance (where it can be measured) by 5%+. Now we know, because they were either caught or admitted cheating, that every significant competitive force during Armstrong's reign was using.

So, in order to believe Lance was clean you had to believe he was better clean than everyone else was dirty. That implies he would have been 5%+ better than everyone else clean vs. clean. Let's try to put that in perspective.

Sprinting Revolution Usain Bolt holds the 100 meter record at 9.58 seconds. That is 1.6% below the best time by another runner.

Micahel Phelps best event is the probably the 200 butterfly. His world record time is 1.1% below the next best time swum by another.

The likelihood Lance is 5% better? Every year for seven years?

Anyone care to take that bet?

This also ought to make anyone who believes passing WADA random tests equals being clean rethink that stance.

I just want to understand something, you are ok with thinking Armstrong used, but not Pac. What about your whole innocent until proven guilty spiel?

I have NEVER said Manny is clean. He may well be using. The issue with Manny is PROCESS. Singling him out with not a shred of evidence (and I mean NOTHING) is very different from examining a guy who has beaten PROVEN USERS over and over and over again.

The most incriminating circumstantial evidence against Armstrong is that he beat cheaters. Doing that while clean? Pretty unlikely. Now had Cotto and Barerra and Sasakul and Oscar tested positive? THEN the situations would be similar.

Ok, thats fair enough, tbh I really dont have alot of info on Armstrong, but his win streak and endurance is out of this world. It does shed doubts when that kind of performance occurs. Also, he battled cancers and won, and I thought that some of the treatments probably included steroids, but thats something I'm not really sure about.

Maui is a Pactard, not to be mistaken for a Pac fan. A Pac fan is a fan like anything else. Maui really shouldn't have started commenting on steroids. Nice how Lance and Manny should be treated different all off hearsay. This guys a Pactard

No, he isn't. He's one of the better posters on the site, despite being relatively new. You, on the other hand, are flirting with a ban by continuing to spam the site with your anti-Pacquiao ramblings.

[marbleheadmaui]

It's one thing when caught cheaters Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton claim Lance used. It is another when the highly respected George Hincapie, never caught and Armstrong's closes riding buddy says "Lance and I used together."

I think the jig is up.

And it doesn't surprise me in the least.

These PED's WORK! Ordinarily the gap between top competitors at a world class level is measured in a fraction of 1%. Pretty clearly these drugs improve performance (where it can be measured) by 5%+. Now we know, because they were either caught or admitted cheating, that every significant competitive force during Armstrong's reign was using.

So, in order to believe Lance was clean you had to believe he was better clean than everyone else was dirty. That implies he would have been 5%+ better than everyone else clean vs. clean. Let's try to put that in perspective.

Sprinting Revolution Usain Bolt holds the 100 meter record at 9.58 seconds. That is 1.6% below the best time by another runner.

Micahel Phelps best event is the probably the 200 butterfly. His world record time is 1.1% below the next best time swum by another.

The likelihood Lance is 5% better? Every year for seven years?

Anyone care to take that bet?

This also ought to make anyone who believes passing WADA random tests equals being clean rethink that stance.

I just want to understand something, you are ok with thinking Armstrong used, but not Pac. What about your whole innocent until proven guilty spiel?

I have NEVER said Manny is clean. He may well be using. The issue with Manny is PROCESS. Singling him out with not a shred of evidence (and I mean NOTHING) is very different from examining a guy who has beaten PROVEN USERS over and over and over again.

The most incriminating circumstantial evidence against Armstrong is that he beat cheaters. Doing that while clean? Pretty unlikely. Now had Cotto and Barerra and Sasakul and Oscar tested positive? THEN the situations would be similar.

Ok, thats fair enough, tbh I really dont have alot of info on Armstrong, but his win streak and endurance is out of this world. It does shed doubts when that kind of performance occurs. Also, he battled cancers and won, and I thought that some of the treatments probably included steroids, but thats something I'm not really sure about.

His treatments for cancer ABSOLUTELY included steroids. But that type of steroid, corticosteroids, are not at issue here. Those are medicinal as opposed to anabolics which are muscle builders.

[Ghost]

His treatments for cancer ABSOLUTELY included steroids. But that type of steroid, corticosteroids, are not at issue here. Those are medicinal as opposed to anabolics which are muscle builders.

Which are also used in some cancer patients.

[mafiajoey]

It's one thing when caught cheaters Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton claim Lance used. It is another when the highly respected George Hincapie, never caught and Armstrong's closes riding buddy says "Lance and I used together."

I think the jig is up.

And it doesn't surprise me in the least.

These PED's WORK! Ordinarily the gap between top competitors at a world class level is measured in a fraction of 1%. Pretty clearly these drugs improve performance (where it can be measured) by 5%+. Now we know, because they were either caught or admitted cheating, that every significant competitive force during Armstrong's reign was using.

So, in order to believe Lance was clean you had to believe he was better clean than everyone else was dirty. That implies he would have been 5%+ better than everyone else clean vs. clean. Let's try to put that in perspective.

Sprinting Revolution Usain Bolt holds the 100 meter record at 9.58 seconds. That is 1.6% below the best time by another runner.

Micahel Phelps best event is the probably the 200 butterfly. His world record time is 1.1% below the next best time swum by another.

The likelihood Lance is 5% better? Every year for seven years?

Anyone care to take that bet?

This also ought to make anyone who believes passing WADA random tests equals being clean rethink that stance.

I just want to understand something, you are ok with thinking Armstrong used, but not Pac. What about your whole innocent until proven guilty spiel?

I have NEVER said Manny is clean. He may well be using. The issue with Manny is PROCESS. Singling him out with not a shred of evidence (and I mean NOTHING) is very different from examining a guy who has beaten PROVEN USERS over and over and over again.

The most incriminating circumstantial evidence against Armstrong is that he beat cheaters. Doing that while clean? Pretty unlikely. Now had Cotto and Barerra and Sasakul and Oscar tested positive? THEN the situations would be similar.

Ok, thats fair enough, tbh I really dont have alot of info on Armstrong, but his win streak and endurance is out of this world. It does shed doubts when that kind of performance occurs. Also, he battled cancers and won, and I thought that some of the treatments probably included steroids, but thats something I'm not really sure about.

Maui is a Pactard, not to be mistaken for a Pac fan. A Pac fan is a fan like anything else. Maui really shouldn't have started commenting on steroids. Nice how Lance and Manny should be treated different all off hearsay. This guys a Pactard

No, he isn't. He's one of the better posters on the site, despite being relatively new. You, on the other hand, are flirting with a ban by continuing to spam the site with your anti-Pacquiao ramblings.

He's a great poster...has more knowledge of the game then I will ever have. But as time has moved on......yes he is Pro Pac and Pac is God

And oh please tell me how I "Spam" the site..... you mean I actually debate the hilucinating Pac fans? Is this illegal? I think there are many others that say just about the same things as I do or debate the "Hype" and "Myth" about Pac and his overrrrr rated accomplishments. How many do you ban for doing the same against Floyd? I think you like some others find problems with those not bowing down to Pac. Now we are in the "Off Topic" forum...is it ok that I defend myself or do I get banned now? Because everything I have ever said had a legitimate point SIR! And we are in the "Off Topic" section so God forbid I actually debate someone in regards to there opinion. Especially when it flip flops in favor of Pac... So if having a rebuttal for not believing Pac is God is spam then I guess we know where the forum really stands. I've laid off the Pac crap and changed my avatar back etc... Because my points are clear and have legitimacy to them. But god forbid someone not jump on the Pac train and they are a Flomo. Are there rules that we have to admire Pac to not get banned? Cause I don't think I spammed anyplace. Please refer me or this to your higher authority when threatening to ban me. If I can't speak up then what's the point of having me here? I was asked to come back many years ago after an initial ban because I didn't jump the JT train when he was fighting BHOP

[marbleheadmaui]

It's one thing when caught cheaters Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton claim Lance used. It is another when the highly respected George Hincapie, never caught and Armstrong's closes riding buddy says "Lance and I used together."

I think the jig is up.

And it doesn't surprise me in the least.

These PED's WORK! Ordinarily the gap between top competitors at a world class level is measured in a fraction of 1%. Pretty clearly these drugs improve performance (where it can be measured) by 5%+. Now we know, because they were either caught or admitted cheating, that every significant competitive force during Armstrong's reign was using.

So, in order to believe Lance was clean you had to believe he was better clean than everyone else was dirty. That implies he would have been 5%+ better than everyone else clean vs. clean. Let's try to put that in perspective.

Sprinting Revolution Usain Bolt holds the 100 meter record at 9.58 seconds. That is 1.6% below the best time by another runner.

Micahel Phelps best event is the probably the 200 butterfly. His world record time is 1.1% below the next best time swum by another.

The likelihood Lance is 5% better? Every year for seven years?

Anyone care to take that bet?

This also ought to make anyone who believes passing WADA random tests equals being clean rethink that stance.

I just want to understand something, you are ok with thinking Armstrong used, but not Pac. What about your whole innocent until proven guilty spiel?

I have NEVER said Manny is clean. He may well be using. The issue with Manny is PROCESS. Singling him out with not a shred of evidence (and I mean NOTHING) is very different from examining a guy who has beaten PROVEN USERS over and over and over again.

The most incriminating circumstantial evidence against Armstrong is that he beat cheaters. Doing that while clean? Pretty unlikely. Now had Cotto and Barerra and Sasakul and Oscar tested positive? THEN the situations would be similar.

Ok, thats fair enough, tbh I really dont have alot of info on Armstrong, but his win streak and endurance is out of this world. It does shed doubts when that kind of performance occurs. Also, he battled cancers and won, and I thought that some of the treatments probably included steroids, but thats something I'm not really sure about.

Maui is a Pactard, not to be mistaken for a Pac fan. A Pac fan is a fan like anything else. Maui really shouldn't have started commenting on steroids. Nice how Lance and Manny should be treated different all off hearsay. This guys a Pactard

No, he isn't. He's one of the better posters on the site, despite being relatively new. You, on the other hand, are flirting with a ban by continuing to spam the site with your anti-Pacquiao ramblings.

He's a great poster...has more knowledge of the game then I will ever have. But as time has moved on......yes he is Pro Pac and Pac is God

And oh please tell me how I "Spam" the site..... you mean I actually debate the hilucinating Pac fans? Is this illegal? I think there are many others that say just about the same things as I do or debate the "Hype" and "Myth" about Pac and his overrrrr rated accomplishments. How many do you ban for doing the same against Floyd? I think you like some others find problems with those not bowing down to Pac. Now we are in the "Off Topic" forum...is it ok that I defend myself or do I get banned now? Because everything I have ever said had a legitimate point SIR! And we are in the "Off Topic" section so God forbid I actually debate someone in regards to there opinion. Especially when it flip flops in favor of Pac... So if having a rebuttal for not believing Pac is God is spam then I guess we know where the forum really stands. I've laid off the Pac crap and changed my avatar back etc... Because my points are clear and have legitimacy to them. But god forbid someone not jump on the Pac train and they are a Flomo. Are there rules that we have to admire Pac to not get banned? Cause I don't think I spammed anyplace. Please refer me or this to your higher authority when threatening to ban me. If I can't speak up then what's the point of having me here? I was asked to come back many years ago after an initial ban because I didn't jump the JT train when he was fighting BHOP

Joey just for your own information? I'm such a Pactard I picked against him in five of his last seven fights and think Floyd would beat him.

Sorta odd thoughts for a Pactard aren't they?

[Mars_ax]

Wasn't this thread about Amstrong? How the fuck did it rotate into one about Pacquiao?

As for Armstrong, it makes you wonder what took the accuser so long to come forward, or if it's even true. Armstrong may well be guilty, but I don't have any respect for "snitches", and i'm suspicious of what might be ulterior motives. Anyway that's my $2 opinion. (inflation)

BTW, Joey, I don't know what your issue is with Marble, maybe jealousy, who knows, but you're barking up the wrong tree, i've known Marble for 5 + years, he's a damn good dude, and one thing he ain't is a fucking Pactard, give a rest and get a life asshole.

[Kev]

I've always assumed Lance was taking, it's simply impossible to compete, nay dominate a sport at the top level when we know everyone else was taking. I don't really blame him as literally all the top cyclists in that sport take them, the best thing to do would just be to legalise them.


Regarding Manny however, there is not a single shred of evidence to suggest he has taken anything. It was an accusation levied by Floyd Mayweather that just will not go away. But nobody of any significance has ever implicated Manny in any way.

This is completely the opposite of Lance Armstrong, whose own teammates have come out and said they took steroids with him.

When another boxer comes out and confesses that he and Manny injected together then the story will have some legs, but right now nobody has anything on Manny at all.

[Preme]

It's one thing when caught cheaters Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton claim Lance used. It is another when the highly respected George Hincapie, never caught and Armstrong's closes riding buddy says "Lance and I used together."

I think the jig is up.

And it doesn't surprise me in the least.

These PED's WORK! Ordinarily the gap between top competitors at a world class level is measured in a fraction of 1%. Pretty clearly these drugs improve performance (where it can be measured) by 5%+. Now we know, because they were either caught or admitted cheating, that every significant competitive force during Armstrong's reign was using.

So, in order to believe Lance was clean you had to believe he was better clean than everyone else was dirty. That implies he would have been 5%+ better than everyone else clean vs. clean. Let's try to put that in perspective.

Sprinting Revolution Usain Bolt holds the 100 meter record at 9.58 seconds. That is 1.6% below the best time by another runner.

Micahel Phelps best event is the probably the 200 butterfly. His world record time is 1.1% below the next best time swum by another.

The likelihood Lance is 5% better? Every year for seven years?

Anyone care to take that bet?

This also ought to make anyone who believes passing WADA random tests equals being clean rethink that stance.

So say the number 1 & 2 ranked boxers squared off to fight for the vacant title and the number one ranked fighter won on points, scoring 5% more than his defeated opponent. If we use your logic, then he has to have been on PED's?

Facts and figures can be manipulated to support any argument. Armstrong was the most tested competitor ever in that sport? I'm sure he would have been caught out.

[marbleheadmaui]

It's one thing when caught cheaters Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton claim Lance used. It is another when the highly respected George Hincapie, never caught and Armstrong's closes riding buddy says "Lance and I used together."

I think the jig is up.

And it doesn't surprise me in the least.

These PED's WORK! Ordinarily the gap between top competitors at a world class level is measured in a fraction of 1%. Pretty clearly these drugs improve performance (where it can be measured) by 5%+. Now we know, because they were either caught or admitted cheating, that every significant competitive force during Armstrong's reign was using.

So, in order to believe Lance was clean you had to believe he was better clean than everyone else was dirty. That implies he would have been 5%+ better than everyone else clean vs. clean. Let's try to put that in perspective.

Sprinting Revolution Usain Bolt holds the 100 meter record at 9.58 seconds. That is 1.6% below the best time by another runner.

Micahel Phelps best event is the probably the 200 butterfly. His world record time is 1.1% below the next best time swum by another.

The likelihood Lance is 5% better? Every year for seven years?

Anyone care to take that bet?

This also ought to make anyone who believes passing WADA random tests equals being clean rethink that stance.

So say the number 1 & 2 ranked boxers squared off to fight for the vacant title and the number one ranked fighter won on points, scoring 5% more than his defeated opponent. If we use your logic, then he has to have been on PED's?

Facts and figures can be manipulated to support any argument. Armstrong was the most tested competitor ever in that sport? I'm sure he would have been caught out.

Not the way you just did they can't. yeah, Lance would have been caught....just like Marion Jones.

[Hornfinger]

Why would you believe Lance Armstrong's riding buddy, but not Pacquiao's sparring partner?


If Lance has passed random blood testing then you have to say he has proven himself clean.

Would I put a bet on that he has never used, nope.

[Kev]

Why would you believe Lance Armstrong's riding buddy, but not Pacquiao's sparring partner?


If Lance has passed random blood testing then you have to say he has proven himself clean.

Would I put a bet on that he has never used, nope.

How do the two compare? Lance is being accused by real people, who were his known teammates and are publicly coming out.

Manny's 'sparring partner revelation' was just a completely anonymous posting on an internent forum.

If a confirmed sparring partner comes out, and publicly states something then the story has legs but anyone can write an anyonmous email and say 'I was Manny's sparring partner and I used to inject him' and post it on a dodgy website.

That is no kind of story at all.

[Hornfinger]

I don't see any difference.

It's emperor's new clothes. I'm not a pactard so i don't see it.

[Kev]

I don't see any difference.

It's emperor's new clothes. I'm not a pactard so i don't see it.

How is there no difference?

Lance Armstrongs teammates publicly came out and accused him.

In the case of Manny an anonymous posting was put on a forum.

Hos do the two even remotely compare?

I can write an anonymous email now saying that I supplied Oscar De La Hoya with cocaine last week and post it on that forum.

Does that mean there is a shred of evidence to support that?

[Hornfinger]

And that's the point isn't it.

Not a shred of evidance.

In both accusations there is actually no evidence, both are just hear say. The actual only difference is that lance has been subjected to random testing many times and never failed it. Unfortunately for me that makes it very very hard to point the finger at him.

Unlike Pacquiao, Lance actually has evidence that he is clean.

[Kev]

And that's the point isn't it.

Not a shred of evidance.

In both accusations there is actually no evidence, both are just hear say. The actual only difference is that lance has been subjected to random testing many times and never failed it. Unfortunately for me that makes it very very hard to point the finger at him.

Unlike Pacquiao, Lance actually has evidence that he is clean.

How does Lance have more evidence for being clean than Manny? Manny has zero evidence against him. Lance has his own teammates publically speaking out and stating they either saw him take, or was actively taking alongside him.

That's a huge public testimony, subject to libel and a very serious allegation.

Please enlighten me of all those who have publically confirmed Manny doing anything wrong? If somebody publically comes forward, then that is a serious allegation. But nobody has.