Tyson of 1988 versus Lewis of 1999

[Master]

Tyson should have fought Holyfield earlier with hindsight, and fought him instead of Williams, Holyfield beat a Brazilian fighter in good fashion. Tyson would have won then but as Tyson's life unraveled, so did his discipline, skills and conditioning. It took years to get to that stage and months for it to fall apart.

[ross]

I'm still scratching my head on when this great erosion of skill happened in Tyson within the devistating ko of Spinks till the Douglas 1st bell a yr and few months later? Was it the 6,7 rounds in between vs chinny Williams or a deer in the headlights Bruno? I think it had more to do with finally running into a fluid mobile combination puncher who didn't shit himself when Mike yelled "boo" and had superior mental make up. All things Holyfield owned. That Cooper shot gets greatly blown out of proportion and it doesn't translate to Mike whacking him that easily if he had not pulled out. What, if it was Evander instead of Douglas vs a 'slipping' Tyson that Feb night the result would have same as well? Holyfield recovered btw and almost ripped Berts head off his shoulders, Mike, ehh, not so much.

Kevin Rooney said Mike wasnt training fully for the Spikns fight and just bulldozed in during the fight. He noticed as soon as King was in his head that Mike wasnt fully focused any more. Look at the Bruno fight, all those better fighters he fought but the laughing stock of the heavyweight division is the first to have a punch have any effect on him, as well as even land a decent shot.

Anyone that cant acknowledge that Mikes skills were not the same are just trying too hard to discredit his achievments and why I dont know. The Tyson that fought Douglas was nothing like the fighter that fought and beat Tucker, Tubbs and Holmes. Big difference in the skills on show.

[johnsebastianmiran]

The question should really be whether a Mike Tyson full of himself walked in the ring or A Lewis with his mind somewhere strolled in. Mike was a body in perpetual motion in his younger day with a cast iron chin and perpetual motion. the loser would be the guy that was full of himself that evening. Mike whenever he listened to Rooney was a well oiled machine when he came into the ring and Lewis was fantastic when he remembered to not stay still so toss a coin based opn their weaknesses and someone will have to give because there's no draw in this fantasy battle. One thing is for sure If Lewis day dreams, it would be a short fight and if Tyson didn't prepare mentally and physically, the restaurant where he eats will be serving jabs Ala Lewis all night.

[Mr140]

Reason i can not back Tyson is that he never beat a elite in his life. Maybe Holmes and Spinks i well give him but one was Lhw great the other coming off a long layoff and kinda old but still good win. Tyson just didn't have balls or heart or what ever it was he was missing to be greatest. Say what want about Holyfield and Lewis but they won there big fights and also kicked the shit out of Tyson. I mean Tyson was a fucking mental midget compared to Holyfeild and Lewis was a to skilled a fighter at his best.

[Spicoli]

I'm still scratching my head on when this great erosion of skill happened in Tyson within the devistating ko of Spinks till the Douglas 1st bell a yr and few months later? Was it the 6,7 rounds in between vs chinny Williams or a deer in the headlights Bruno? I think it had more to do with finally running into a fluid mobile combination puncher who didn't shit himself when Mike yelled "boo" and had superior mental make up. All things Holyfield owned. That Cooper shot gets greatly blown out of proportion and it doesn't translate to Mike whacking him that easily if he had not pulled out. What, if it was Evander instead of Douglas vs a 'slipping' Tyson that Feb night the result would have same as well? Holyfield recovered btw and almost ripped Berts head off his shoulders, Mike, ehh, not so much.

Kevin Rooney said Mike wasnt training fully for the Spikns fight and just bulldozed in during the fight. He noticed as soon as King was in his head that Mike wasnt fully focused any more. Look at the Bruno fight, all those better fighters he fought but the laughing stock of the heavyweight division is the first to have a punch have any effect on him, as well as even land a decent shot.

Anyone that cant acknowledge that Mikes skills were not the same are just trying too hard to discredit his achievments and why I dont know. The Tyson that fought Douglas was nothing like the fighter that fought and beat Tucker, Tubbs and Holmes. Big difference in the skills on show.

Sounds like your saying his skills were still there really but he just didnt give a shate to stay focused and trained then? Thats on him.

[ross]

I'm still scratching my head on when this great erosion of skill happened in Tyson within the devistating ko of Spinks till the Douglas 1st bell a yr and few months later? Was it the 6,7 rounds in between vs chinny Williams or a deer in the headlights Bruno? I think it had more to do with finally running into a fluid mobile combination puncher who didn't shit himself when Mike yelled "boo" and had superior mental make up. All things Holyfield owned. That Cooper shot gets greatly blown out of proportion and it doesn't translate to Mike whacking him that easily if he had not pulled out. What, if it was Evander instead of Douglas vs a 'slipping' Tyson that Feb night the result would have same as well? Holyfield recovered btw and almost ripped Berts head off his shoulders, Mike, ehh, not so much.

Kevin Rooney said Mike wasnt training fully for the Spikns fight and just bulldozed in during the fight. He noticed as soon as King was in his head that Mike wasnt fully focused any more. Look at the Bruno fight, all those better fighters he fought but the laughing stock of the heavyweight division is the first to have a punch have any effect on him, as well as even land a decent shot.

Anyone that cant acknowledge that Mikes skills were not the same are just trying too hard to discredit his achievments and why I dont know. The Tyson that fought Douglas was nothing like the fighter that fought and beat Tucker, Tubbs and Holmes. Big difference in the skills on show.

Sounds like your saying his skills were still there really but he just didnt give a shate to stay focused and trained then? Thats on him.

Yes it is but my point is, at his best his skills were awesome. He could avoid getting hit, he could out jab men of 6,5" he could also throw combinations of punches that were like lightning and any of the punches could have knocked the opponent down or out. As soon as he wasnt being trained by Rooney he wasnt do the things that made him great.

Put it this way. Mike dies at the end of 88. In 99 after Lewis has just scraped past Holyfield, there is a poll in the boxing mags on who would win. Between Tyson and Lewis. Tyson would win the poll hands down.

This is whatpeople choosing Tyson are getting at. Up to 88 he was a force. Not a bully but a highly skilled and physically very gifted fighter that in 88 alot of boxing "experts" trully believed was unbeatable and knocking at the door to alis lofty placing in all time rankings. Thats just a fact, that is haw good he was and how people perceived him back then.

[Mr140]

Yea but it turned out to be wrong and he did not achieve any thing close to Ali.

[ross]

Yea but it turned out to be wrong and he did not achieve any thing close to Ali.

It wasnt wrong, those "experts"saw with their own eyes a phenomenom. They saw a man tidy up a division, he defeated 3 defending champions, smashed Holmes up, beat the linear champ, there was absolutely no argument who the top man in the division was. They were basing their assesments on what they had seen, not what they were thinking could happen in the future. No one can take away or deny Mike Tyson was a fantastic fighter. It may have been for a short period but he still managed to have enough fights in that short period to prove when he was being trained right, he was consistant (neither Holyfield or Lewis had a dominant or consistant period like Mike. There were too many shaky moments inbetween. No one ever thought of them at any point in their careers as unbeatable and that hurts some people) and very nearly unbeatable as they were calling him then. Its only when he left the team that were looking after him that it all went tits up.

In fact, if Tyson had retired straight after the Spinks fight I think his career is better than Marcianos.

[BIG H]

Yea but it turned out to be wrong and he did not achieve any thing close to Ali.

It wasnt wrong, those "experts"saw with their own eyes a phenomenom. They saw a man tidy up a division, he defeated 3 defending champions, smashed Holmes up, beat the linear champ, there was absolutely no argument who the top man in the division was. They were basing their assesments on what they had seen, not what they were thinking could happen in the future. No one can take away or deny Mike Tyson was a fantastic fighter. It may have been for a short period but he still managed to have enough fights in that short period to prove when he was being trained right, he was consistant (neither Holyfield or Lewis had a dominant or consistant period like Mike. There were too many shaky moments inbetween. No one ever thought of them at any point in their careers as unbeatable and that hurts some people) and very nearly unbeatable as they were calling him then. Its only when he left the team that were looking after him that it all went tits up.

In fact, if Tyson had retired straight after the Spinks fight I think his career is better than Marcianos.

Much as it pains me to say it I agree

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Yea but it turned out to be wrong and he did not achieve any thing close to Ali.

It wasnt wrong, those "experts"saw with their own eyes a phenomenom. They saw a man tidy up a division, he defeated 3 defending champions, smashed Holmes up, beat the linear champ, there was absolutely no argument who the top man in the division was. They were basing their assesments on what they had seen, not what they were thinking could happen in the future. No one can take away or deny Mike Tyson was a fantastic fighter. It may have been for a short period but he still managed to have enough fights in that short period to prove when he was being trained right, he was consistant (neither Holyfield or Lewis had a dominant or consistant period like Mike. There were too many shaky moments inbetween. No one ever thought of them at any point in their careers as unbeatable and that hurts some people) and very nearly unbeatable as they were calling him then. Its only when he left the team that were looking after him that it all went tits up.

In fact, if Tyson had retired straight after the Spinks fight I think his career is better than Marcianos.

Much as it pains me to say it I agree

Ditto. Minus the pain