I was going to mock you....

[Gandalf]

The guy is a cruiserweight and only the 2nd guy in over five years to go 12. As I said I don't think you quite grasp the reality in that ring Miles.

He was by no means good, but 'disgrace' is too much... He was up against it.

Lacy was a super middle, so was Joe. No excuse there.
Are you telling me Wlad boxed as well as Joe did? Like I said he put no more on the line than Haye did.

But if Haye is too small to compete then he should have stayed in his division. You look for glory then you've got to take your chances and he didn't take any real chances. It was poor and certainly didn't live up to the hype. People want a fight not a man looking to go the distance and that's what it felt like in the second half. No Wlad wasn't as perfect as Joe was, but nobody has ever been as perfect as that. Calzaghe was sheer poetry. You can't expect that of heavyweights, but it was dominating and extremely decisive.

[AdamGB]

Very clear UD... but if Calzaghe's effort was poetry then to be fair Wlad's was a christmas cracker joke.

Imagine if Joe fought a 130lb fighter and did just enough to keep him at bay.
Dog fighting Wlad was not just a risk... It was a 100% way to get stopped.

[Gandalf]

Very clear UD... but if Calzaghe's effort was poetry then to be fair Wlad's was a christmas cracker joke.

Imagine if Joe fought a 130lb fighter and did just enough to keep him at bay.
Dog fighting Wlad was not just a risk... It was a 100% way to get stopped.

Haye had the choice to sign the fight and he chooses to fight at HW. It's all down to him, the parameters are what they. There should be no excuses.

Haye couldn't walk the talk and he found out the hard way. A routine win for Wlad and a very negative showing from Haye.

[AdamGB]

Yup, he chose Wlad... He could have quite easily milked cruiserweight for years and years but chose to test himself with the hardest fight he could.

The only way he was going to see if he was strong enough for Wlad was by being in the ring with him... and he quickly found out he wasn't. Not much shame in that tbh

[marbleheadmaui]

And sticking to tactics that almost guarantee getting sparked is just plain stupid.

How he boxed was his best chance... It was just a slim one.

Nope. Taking the risks necessary to get in range to be able to land was his only shot. He chose to take the money and run.

[marbleheadmaui]

Yup, he chose Wlad... He could have quite easily milked cruiserweight for years and years but chose to test himself with the hardest fight he could.

The only way he was going to see if he was strong enough for Wlad was by being in the ring with him... and he quickly found out he wasn't. Not much shame in that tbh

But he didn't test himself. That's kind of the issue at hand.

[AdamGB]

what risks could he have taken? He was trying to get Wlad to over commit so he could move his head and use laterall movement and land something big (ask wlad's left cheek) Wlad's jab was too good to give much though.

I said prior to the fight that was his only real chance and that's exactly what he did.

We all seem to be forgetting the physicality... Anything else would be a sure fire way to get KOd.

I'm really getting a sense of who knows the reality of being in the ring and competing against such a stronger fighter.

[Gandalf]

what risks could he have taken? He was trying to get Wlad to over commit so he could move his head and use laterall movement and land something big (ask wlad's left cheek) Wlad's jab was too good to give much though.

I said prior to the fight that was his only real chance and that's exactly what he did.

We all seem to be forgetting the physicality... Anything else would be a sure fire way to get KOd.

I'm really getting a sense of who knows the reality of being in the ring and competing against such a stronger fighter.

We all know that Wlad is the bigger, stronger man. But Haye was quicker he should have been working to get inside and work Wlad over. But he didn't do that, he waited and waited and waited. Sure, Wlad was heavier, but also slower and known not to have the greatest chin. Haye is only a few inches shorter, a smaller man can still get in close and try to do some work. It wasn't that great an obstacle. In fact Wlad was even fighting at Haye's height for a lot of the fight.

Haye didn't try to land telling blows frequently enough, he used exactly the same method against Valuev and that was the problem, he didn't do okay. He lost by a landslide. You say you are the main man and then don't even try and then bitch about a toe? It's just sad really. Two years of talk and that's what it all boiled down to.

It had echoes of Mosley/Pac. One guy forcing it and the other on the retreat for the entire fight and then of course we have the blisters.

[generalbulldog]

And sticking to tactics that almost guarantee getting sparked is just plain stupid.

How he boxed was his best chance... It was just a slim one.

Nope. Taking the risks necessary to get in range to be able to land was his only shot. He chose to take the money and run.

It is a loss cause. If I were you I would not debate with nationalistic sports fans, especially of the British variety. For fucks sakes there was an old thread here that a few of them believe that they can beat Manny Pacman in a boxing ring because they did some boxing in a gym and had height and weight advantages over him. Talk about delusional.

[marbleheadmaui]

what risks could he have taken? He was trying to get Wlad to over commit so he could move his head and use laterall movement and land something big (ask wlad's left cheek) Wlad's jab was too good to give much though.

I said prior to the fight that was his only real chance and that's exactly what he did.

We all seem to be forgetting the physicality... Anything else would be a sure fire way to get KOd.

I'm really getting a sense of who knows the reality of being in the ring and competing against such a stronger fighter.

Well I assume your list doesn't include Haye and Booth. What could he have done? Pretty simple actually. Two options. When he slipped the jab step inside and go to the body and stay inside flurrying until Wlad grabbed him. The second option was to retreat six inches at a time and then punch when Wlad came in range ala Joe Louis.

You act like size and strength are the only determinants. Yet somehow Chambers beat Dimitrenko, Louis beat Buddy Baer, and Mike Spinks beat Larry Holmes.

[Gandalf]

And sticking to tactics that almost guarantee getting sparked is just plain stupid.

How he boxed was his best chance... It was just a slim one.

Nope. Taking the risks necessary to get in range to be able to land was his only shot. He chose to take the money and run.

It is a loss cause. If I were you I would not debate with nationalistic sports fans, especially of the British variety. For fucks sakes there was an old thread here that a few of them believe that they can beat Manny Pacman in a boxing ring because they did some boxing in a gym and had height and weight advantages over him. Talk about delusional.

Nationalists of any variety, GB. It's not just the Brits. I'm certainly not making any excuses for Haye, it was a poor showing and that appears to be the general consensus beyond a few who seem to want to make excuses for him.

[Dave Hughey]

what risks could he have taken? He was trying to get Wlad to over commit so he could move his head and use laterall movement and land something big (ask wlad's left cheek) Wlad's jab was too good to give much though.

I said prior to the fight that was his only real chance and that's exactly what he did.

We all seem to be forgetting the physicality... Anything else would be a sure fire way to get KOd.

I'm really getting a sense of who knows the reality of being in the ring and competing against such a stronger fighter.

I agree. I think Haye trained to fight the fight like he did. If you're a small heavy, you fight Wlad sort of like the way you would fight a buzz saw or a pile driver. Your only hope is to stay away until you can somehow disconnect the power.

I think Haye did what he could do. He knew he could outrun Wlad, and he hoped to get that one chance for a KO without taking too much risk of getting his own brain scrambled. And he did give Wlad at least one good shot, so I say he did what he could do.

That's being pretty realistic and indicates to me that Haye's mental health is pretty good. He wants to retire intact and smell the roses.

I wish I could be in Haye's shoes today. I'd cry all the way to the bank.

But the toe? Oh Geez! I would hope I could keep my mouth shut. People will remember Haye's toe long after they have forgotten Haye.

[AdamGB]

what risks could he have taken? He was trying to get Wlad to over commit so he could move his head and use laterall movement and land something big (ask wlad's left cheek) Wlad's jab was too good to give much though.

I said prior to the fight that was his only real chance and that's exactly what he did.

We all seem to be forgetting the physicality... Anything else would be a sure fire way to get KOd.

I'm really getting a sense of who knows the reality of being in the ring and competing against such a stronger fighter.

Well I assume your list doesn't include Haye and Booth. What could he have done? Pretty simple actually. Two options. When he slipped the jab step inside and go to the body and stay inside flurrying until Wlad grabbed him. The second option was to retreat six inches at a time and then punch when Wlad came in range ala Joe Louis.

You act like size and strength are the only determinants. Yet somehow Chambers beat Dimitrenko, Louis beat Buddy Baer, and Mike Spinks beat Larry Holmes.

For Haye to fight off the back foot like louis wlad would have had to gave been more aggressive... Do you honestly think that Haye would gave been the first person to flurry at Wlad on the inside? We'ce seen smaller guys try it before and it doesn't end well.

Have you read my posts at all? I've constantly said that Wlad has perfected a style that utilises his height and reach perfectly and the strength to make sure that nobody will stand with him. Could wlad be smaller and be effectice doing what he does? No. He has the perfect synergy between physicality, style and skill.

The way you're acting is as if I said valuev should be the greatest of all time. Reading what you want to read.

[El Kabong]

And sticking to tactics that almost guarantee getting sparked is just plain stupid.

How he boxed was his best chance... It was just a slim one.

Wait a second....people demand Wladimir go in both guns a blazin' and complain when he sticks behind the jab. Are you calling those people stupid too?

[AdamGB]

Against smaller, weaker, slow plodders Lyle. He gets the job done but could do and entertain more. Haye would have been Kayo'd... Would Wlad get ko'd by guys like ibromavic?