But Can We Admit the Fact That...

[ninjaspy3]

What are you trying to prove with this? Are your trying to ease our minds about how big a flop Haye was? The man talked himself into this position and then didn't follow through he has no one to blame but himself.

Wlad vs Peter at least had some drama. The Haye fight was just Haye spewing shit. I would equate it to the Kevin Johnson fight or maybe the Ibragimov fight. All the other fights you listed were ok....Solis injured himself and I don't really call that a "fight"...that's the ONLY way Haye could have looked even worse in the ring.

No Lyle, I'm saying that Haye (while falling and "running") accomplished more, as proven by the score cards, then any of the other Klitschko opponents I have listed. If you are honest with yourself, you may recall that in some of those fights, Klitschko may not have taken 1 clean shot. (peter landed one after the bell, so it doesnt count)

[Hunter]

All of the fights you mentioned resulted in a KO/TKO so of course they were better fights. The other fighters tried to win not tried to finish the fight on their feet like Haye.

[erics44]

mate i put 1 bet on for the fight, 10 euros on wlad to win on points

id rather not have won the bet but i did

if i could have bet on it being a boring fight i would have put that on too

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

As disappointed as I was with David for fighting inside of himself and not putting any pressure on Wladimir whatsoever, even though I assumed that this would highly increase his chances of getting KTFO, I am actually quite at peace with it now because Wladimir come rain or shine is 100% effective and I guess when you weigh it up, the simple truth is Haye did as good as he possibly could without getting KTFO. Which is far better than what Ibragimov or Chambers achived, Ibragimov didn't win a round nor land a meaningfull punch and Chambers got KTFO even while trying not to.

I can't rate Chagaev or Peters efforts simply because Chagaev tired very briefly to impose himself... And then quit & Peter is limited in what he can do so only has one option. To get KTFO.

I think Brock & Thompson gave it a much better go than Haye. Brock was fighting with spirit and had a rough semblance of a game plane. Thompson maybe even more so.

The point I'm making is, hype/ trash talk/ irrelevance aside, Haye wasn't terrible. No one gave a shit that Ibragimov fought so negatively, they were more concerned about what Wlad was doing. I think this is just a perfect example of fickle boxing fans showing their emotions.

[ninjaspy3]

All of the fights you mentioned resulted in a KO/TKO so of course they were better fights. The other fighters tried to win not tried to finish the fight on their feet like Haye.

Ok, first I will adress this.
Will someone please explain to me the logic that "If a fight ends in KO/TKO, it is a better fight"?
That is an opinion. Specifically, that is your opinion and I am sure that many share this opinion.
However, it is not a fact.

A fight is not necessarily better simply because it ends in a KO/TKO.
For example, sometimes a KO happens almost completely by luck, or accident.
So you would be saying that a fight in which a lucky KO happens is better than say... if there was a highly skilled bout that went to the cards. Or perhaps a fight bedtween 2 tough fighters who simply refused to quit or go down.

So, I hope I beat that horse enough.

[Gandalf]

All of the fights you mentioned resulted in a KO/TKO so of course they were better fights. The other fighters tried to win not tried to finish the fight on their feet like Haye.

Ok, first I will adress this.
Will someone please explain to me the logic that "If a fight ends in KO/TKO, it is a better fight"?
That is an opinion. Specifically, that is your opinion and I am sure that many share this opinion.
However, it is not a fact.

A fight is not necessarily better simply because it ends in a KO/TKO.
For example, sometimes a KO happens almost completely by luck, or accident.
So you would be saying that a fight in which a lucky KO happens is better than say... if there was a highly skilled bout that went to the cards. Or perhaps a fight bedtween 2 tough fighters who simply refused to quit or go down.

So, I hope I beat that horse enough.

But the guy didn't even try to win. I have no idea what horse you are even trying to beat here. It was a crap showing from a now proven mediocre HW.

It was utter crap and there is nothing wrong with telling it how it was.

Almost everyone in the world thinks he sucked except for you, doesn't that make you think a little?

[ninjaspy3]

All of the fights you mentioned resulted in a KO/TKO so of course they were better fights. The other fighters tried to win not tried to finish the fight on their feet like Haye.

Ok, first I will adress this.
Will someone please explain to me the logic that "If a fight ends in KO/TKO, it is a better fight"?
That is an opinion. Specifically, that is your opinion and I am sure that many share this opinion.
However, it is not a fact.

A fight is not necessarily better simply because it ends in a KO/TKO.
For example, sometimes a KO happens almost completely by luck, or accident.
So you would be saying that a fight in which a lucky KO happens is better than say... if there was a highly skilled bout that went to the cards. Or perhaps a fight bedtween 2 tough fighters who simply refused to quit or go down.

So, I hope I beat that horse enough.

But the guy didn't even try to win. I have no idea what horse you are even trying to beat here. It was a crap showing from a now proven mediocre HW.

It was utter crap and there is nothing wrong with telling it how it was.

Almost everyone in the world thinks he sucked except for you, doesn't that make you think a little?

You see, thats just it Miles. I AM thinking. And some of us are refusing to do so.
So I will repeat what point I was trying to make in the post you replied to.
Hunter said that the fights I mentioned ended in KO/TKO, therefore they were better fights, and I pointed out to him that just because a fight ends in KO/TKO does not mean it is a better fight. It is simply his opinion, probably because he personally likes to see KOs, but that does not mean his personal opinion about what makes a fight good is fact.

Now Miles, as to your point, in Haye's non effort, he gave Wlad a better fight than the other oponents which I listed who did try. Do you see what Im getting at now?
It means the fight which you are complaining about is in reality, a better showing than previous opponents even though Haye didnt give a 100% effort.

[Gandalf]

All of the fights you mentioned resulted in a KO/TKO so of course they were better fights. The other fighters tried to win not tried to finish the fight on their feet like Haye.

Ok, first I will adress this.
Will someone please explain to me the logic that "If a fight ends in KO/TKO, it is a better fight"?
That is an opinion. Specifically, that is your opinion and I am sure that many share this opinion.
However, it is not a fact.

A fight is not necessarily better simply because it ends in a KO/TKO.
For example, sometimes a KO happens almost completely by luck, or accident.
So you would be saying that a fight in which a lucky KO happens is better than say... if there was a highly skilled bout that went to the cards. Or perhaps a fight bedtween 2 tough fighters who simply refused to quit or go down.

So, I hope I beat that horse enough.

But the guy didn't even try to win. I have no idea what horse you are even trying to beat here. It was a crap showing from a now proven mediocre HW.

It was utter crap and there is nothing wrong with telling it how it was.

Almost everyone in the world thinks he sucked except for you, doesn't that make you think a little?

You see, thats just it Miles. I AM thinking. And some of us are refusing to do so.
So I will repeat what point I was trying to make in the post you replied to.
Hunter said that the fights I mentioned ended in KO/TKO, therefore they were better fights, and I pointed out to him that just because a fight ends in KO/TKO does not mean it is a better fight. It is simply his opinion, probably because he personally likes to see KOs, but that does not mean his personal opinion about what makes a fight good is fact.

Now Miles, as to your point, in Haye's non effort, he gave Wlad a better fight than the other oponents which I listed who did try. Do you see what Im getting at now?
It means the fight which you are complaining about is in reality, a better showing than previous opponents even though Haye didnt give a 100% effort.

I get your point, but it was just such a negative display. I can't give Haye any credit for it. Early on I thought it was decent, but Haye just seemed to give up once he felt some power. It was survival mode and the same thing he has criticised everyone else for. As boxing fans we are quite harsh people, we want to see people go out on their swords. It isn't nice, but it earns respect and it is why top boxers earn so much money. They are expected to give their all. Haye didn't do that and so people are pissed, that's all. I'm sure you see that.

[ninjaspy3]

All of the fights you mentioned resulted in a KO/TKO so of course they were better fights. The other fighters tried to win not tried to finish the fight on their feet like Haye.

Ok, first I will adress this.
Will someone please explain to me the logic that "If a fight ends in KO/TKO, it is a better fight"?
That is an opinion. Specifically, that is your opinion and I am sure that many share this opinion.
However, it is not a fact.

A fight is not necessarily better simply because it ends in a KO/TKO.
For example, sometimes a KO happens almost completely by luck, or accident.
So you would be saying that a fight in which a lucky KO happens is better than say... if there was a highly skilled bout that went to the cards. Or perhaps a fight bedtween 2 tough fighters who simply refused to quit or go down.

So, I hope I beat that horse enough.

But the guy didn't even try to win. I have no idea what horse you are even trying to beat here. It was a crap showing from a now proven mediocre HW.

It was utter crap and there is nothing wrong with telling it how it was.

Almost everyone in the world thinks he sucked except for you, doesn't that make you think a little?

You see, thats just it Miles. I AM thinking. And some of us are refusing to do so.
So I will repeat what point I was trying to make in the post you replied to.
Hunter said that the fights I mentioned ended in KO/TKO, therefore they were better fights, and I pointed out to him that just because a fight ends in KO/TKO does not mean it is a better fight. It is simply his opinion, probably because he personally likes to see KOs, but that does not mean his personal opinion about what makes a fight good is fact.

Now Miles, as to your point, in Haye's non effort, he gave Wlad a better fight than the other oponents which I listed who did try. Do you see what Im getting at now?
It means the fight which you are complaining about is in reality, a better showing than previous opponents even though Haye didnt give a 100% effort.

I get your point, but it was just such a negative display. I can't give Haye any credit for it. Early on I thought it was decent, but Haye just seemed to give up once he felt some power. It was survival mode and the same thing he has criticised everyone else for. As boxing fans we are quite harsh people, we want to see people go out on their swords. It isn't nice, but it earns respect and it is why top boxers earn so much money. They are expected to give their all. Haye didn't do that and so people are pissed, that's all. I'm sure you see that.

I understand. I just think people go a little overboard sometimes.
I mean, thinking realistically, Im sure Haye was taken by surprise at Wlad's skill and speed.
After that, he probably tried to find the best way to fight without getting KOd.

And I know, that sucks for us, the audiance, but honestly, who is really going to stick their chin out there if they have a 2nd option? KOs are generally scored on those who get the fight brought to them, and there is nothing they can do to stop it. Whether by surprise, or by inevitableness of the opponent running them down and cornering them. Or of course, there are those who say "what the hell" and just go out "Gung Ho," forget all else... and get KO'd.

[Spicoli]

Ninja bud did you hurt your toe as well I mean I am as stubborn and loyal as the next guy but really mate you've moved beyond putting lipstick on a pig to going for the full scale fashion show. Respectfully man this is far beyond a reach.

So Haye won a couple rounds. In fantasy land where Unicorns gallop and Championship fights are set for 4 rounds that's something to hang your hat on but the fact that his scale tilts far more convincingly to the 'L' in the biggest fight of his professional life will be first and foremost. I really don't think you do him any favors at all by using some also rans as a measuring stick for his accomplishments vs Wlad where it's as plain as day that his sence of self preservation trumped his confidence and belief in victory. You don't get to to 'kind of' lose like that or be awarded brownie points for moral victory on a Championship elite level.

[Kev]

What are you trying to prove with this? Are your trying to ease our minds about how big a flop Haye was? The man talked himself into this position and then didn't follow through he has no one to blame but himself.

Wlad vs Peter at least had some drama. The Haye fight was just Haye spewing shit. I would equate it to the Kevin Johnson fight or maybe the Ibragimov fight. All the other fights you listed were ok....Solis injured himself and I don't really call that a "fight"...that's the ONLY way Haye could have looked even worse in the ring.

No Lyle, I'm saying that Haye (while falling and "running") accomplished more, as proven by the score cards, then any of the other Klitschko opponents I have listed. If you are honest with yourself, you may recall that in some of those fights, Klitschko may not have taken 1 clean shot. (peter landed one after the bell, so it doesnt count)

He also got paid more than all of them combined too, so I don't think the fans got better value for money if that's your point

[armyash]

it's worse than all those fights because of the way DH built it up and built himself up. Good promotion and made a lot of money but when he is 80 years old i'm sure he will look back and wish he'd done something different.

[AdamGB]

How exactly does one 'resemble' a remark?

[Mars_ax]

How exactly does one 'resemble' a remark?

It's not not surprising that a dumb fuck like you has never heard that expression.

[Beanflicker]

None of those guys you mentioned talked a FRACTION of the shit that Haye did, and none of those fights had a fraction of the hype that this one did.

Haye made a lot of big promises and he fell short by a mile. Disgraceful performance no matter which way you slice it.