Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?

[Dropanuke]

In one sentence:

Wlad dominated, Haye didn't deliver.


The end.

Spot on!!

Puts everyone to shame.

Especially you

Yeah agree it does put the reply to my remark to shame.
I agree.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

In one sentence:

Wlad dominated, Haye didn't deliver.


The end.

Spot on!!

Puts everyone to shame.

Especially you

Yeah agree it does put the reply to my remark to shame.
I agree.

Even though your typing complete nonsense and your wit is completely out of context, well said

[AdamGB]

AdamGB, my thing is this. Well, first off, I've thought about it and I don't want to be a proponent of hitting a guy when he's down. From your posts, it sounds like your favorite fighter was David Haye. I hear that, and listen he was a heavyweight champion, that says something. Personally, I don't give Wlad any more credit for beating Haye than I do for beating Thompson, Chambers, Chagaev, or Ibragimov. Some of those guys held belts too and Chagaev even, like Haye, beat Valuev to get the belt. In fact, I give Wlad less credit for beating Haye probably than a couple of those guys. The problem I had in retrospect was that I let Haye sell me that this was going to be a good fight. So, I guess my final thoughts are that I was let down on what was hyped to be the biggest heavyweight in years and ended up being a horrible fight. The blame for it being a boring fight is both fighter's fault, but I blame Haye more for letting me down that it was going to be an exciting scrap.

In regards to Wlad and Haye's resume and careers and historical placement against fighters in their weight classes. I agree that Wlad wouldn't have beat a bunch of the all-time heavyweights you mentioned. However, he fights effectively with his height and reach, and defensively, and I don't think he'd be a walk in the park for any of those guys either. He's a top twenty heavyweight for me, rounding out around number 20, somewhere around there. I respect him for taking on every single person in his division even though the division isn't that great. That the division isn't great is the reason David Haye was able to get a belt. However, give Wlad credit too, Wlad hasn't ducked anyone. He's unified every single belt other than the one his brother owns. No two ways about it that's a remarkable accomplishment. Your point that Haye came from a working class background and achieved a lot - so did Wlad and he achieved more, much, much more. On to Haye.

I was never high on Haye. For example, I recall debating Haye with Erics44 and Erics44 acknowledged that Haye's resume wasn't very good, but that he saw a lot of potential in Haye to do big things. He also thought he was the most exciting heavyweight in modern times. I doubted those claims because at that time two of Haye's four heavyweight fights weren't entertaining. His best win on his resume probably is over Nikolai Valuev, which isn't all that impressive. He was a unified cruiserweight champ and that deserves some mention, but only some mention, because his wins at cruiserweight weren't impressive. His best win was probably over Fragomenni, maybe Mormeck. He unified with Enzo Mac and Mormeck anyway. What stands out about Haye for me is that he doesn't have one stand out win. Whereas Adamek , another unified cruiserweight champion, can lay claim to beating Cunningham and Arreola, Haye doesn't even have those type of wins. At the end of the day, Haye just didn't have too great a career. He definitely isn't Canastota material, not even close, and as far as British boxers of the last five years, he probably isn't even ranked in the top 5 (I'd have Carl Froch, Joe Calzaghe, Ricky Hatton, Amir Khan all easily above him).

Going on record here - Haye has never been and will never be my favourite fighter. Not even close... I think he has some talent and he's British - so I'll get behind him. That doesn't mean I can't see the flaws in him... Like his attitude etc. Fuck I never even picked to beat wlad... Just daid it was possible.

He didn't deliver, people can criticise him for that. He had the ability to make a better go of it and didn't.

And I don't think Wlad is awful. I just think that for somebody to think so little of David Haye to see with their own eyes: Wlad come nowhere near to 'smashing' the David Haye the regard so little to then say that Wlad 'smashes a prime Ali and Tyson' is full blown retarded.

He doesn't smash david crap haye... But he does smash Tyson and even Ali in their primes? What a dumb thing to say.

He might not be easy wins for them... But be real... Wlad has shown time and time again that he doesn't 'smash' anybody... Let alone 2 ATGs

If I stick up for the guy it's when people like Dropanuke turn it up to 11 in the saying stupid shit departement.

[Rantcatrat]

AdamGB, I hear ya. Wlad has had a long heavyweight reign though and you got to give him some credit. Like I said, it's not like he's ducked anyone or hasn't fought someone when people thought he should. He made a lot of concessions just to able to get David Haye in the ring. He's beat every single other "best guy" in his division. That speaks volumes in my opinion. He's taken many "0's" from top ten heavyweights. The problem is that he doesn't fight to destroy, he fights to win. Mayweather does the same thing and that can be tedious at times.

Wlad doesn't smash people like say Manny Pacquiao does, but he does always dominate. He'd be a handful for a lot of heavyweights. He'd have trouble with guys with chins who had the balls to force their way inside because they could rely on their chins. Haye wanted so much to do that, but he knows, and we know, he doesn't have the chin to pull that off. Foreman comes to mind as a guy Wlad would have a tough time with. To be fair to dropanuke and others like him, there were a lot of people talking a ton of crap about Wlad before that fight, a lot of people, so he is somewhat warranted in responding the way he has.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

AdamGB, my thing is this. Well, first off, I've thought about it and I don't want to be a proponent of hitting a guy when he's down. From your posts, it sounds like your favorite fighter was David Haye. I hear that, and listen he was a heavyweight champion, that says something. Personally, I don't give Wlad any more credit for beating Haye than I do for beating Thompson, Chambers, Chagaev, or Ibragimov. Some of those guys held belts too and Chagaev even, like Haye, beat Valuev to get the belt. In fact, I give Wlad less credit for beating Haye probably than a couple of those guys. The problem I had in retrospect was that I let Haye sell me that this was going to be a good fight. So, I guess my final thoughts are that I was let down on what was hyped to be the biggest heavyweight in years and ended up being a horrible fight. The blame for it being a boring fight is both fighter's fault, but I blame Haye more for letting me down that it was going to be an exciting scrap.

In regards to Wlad and Haye's resume and careers and historical placement against fighters in their weight classes. I agree that Wlad wouldn't have beat a bunch of the all-time heavyweights you mentioned. However, he fights effectively with his height and reach, and defensively, and I don't think he'd be a walk in the park for any of those guys either. He's a top twenty heavyweight for me, rounding out around number 20, somewhere around there. I respect him for taking on every single person in his division even though the division isn't that great. That the division isn't great is the reason David Haye was able to get a belt. However, give Wlad credit too, Wlad hasn't ducked anyone. He's unified every single belt other than the one his brother owns. No two ways about it that's a remarkable accomplishment. Your point that Haye came from a working class background and achieved a lot - so did Wlad and he achieved more, much, much more. On to Haye.

I was never high on Haye. For example, I recall debating Haye with Erics44 and Erics44 acknowledged that Haye's resume wasn't very good, but that he saw a lot of potential in Haye to do big things. He also thought he was the most exciting heavyweight in modern times. I doubted those claims because at that time two of Haye's four heavyweight fights weren't entertaining. His best win on his resume probably is over Nikolai Valuev, which isn't all that impressive. He was a unified cruiserweight champ and that deserves some mention, but only some mention, because his wins at cruiserweight weren't impressive. His best win was probably over Fragomenni, maybe Mormeck. He unified with Enzo Mac and Mormeck anyway. What stands out about Haye for me is that he doesn't have one stand out win. Whereas Adamek , another unified cruiserweight champion, can lay claim to beating Cunningham and Arreola, Haye doesn't even have those type of wins. At the end of the day, Haye just didn't have too great a career. He definitely isn't Canastota material, not even close, and as far as British boxers of the last five years, he probably isn't even ranked in the top 5 (I'd have Carl Froch, Joe Calzaghe, Ricky Hatton, Amir Khan all easily above him).

Going on record here - Haye has never been and will never be my favourite fighter. Not even close... I think he has some talent and he's British - so I'll get behind him. That doesn't mean I can't see the flaws in him... Like his attitude etc. Fuck I never even picked to beat wlad... Just daid it was possible.

He didn't deliver, people can criticise him for that. He had the ability to make a better go of it and didn't.

And I don't think Wlad is awful. I just think that for somebody to think so little of David Haye to see with their own eyes: Wlad come nowhere near to 'smashing' the David Haye the regard so little to then say that Wlad 'smashes a prime Ali and Tyson' is full blown retarded.

He doesn't smash david crap haye... But he does smash Tyson and even Ali in their primes? What a dumb thing to say.

He might not be easy wins for them... But be real... Wlad has shown time and time again that he doesn't 'smash' anybody... Let alone 2 ATGs

If I stick up for the guy it's when people like Dropanuke turn it up to 11 in the saying stupid shit departement.

Also, I can't see how you can say Haye doesn't have a 'Arreola' or a 'Cunningham' on his record... I'm a little bit blown a way by that comment.

1st, lets see if Cunningham is good enough to unify the Cruiserweight division. Second lets see if Arreola is good enough to beat ANYONE in the same class as Valuev, Ruiz or Barrett that haden't already bean beaten by Valuev, Ruiz or Barrett

[Pugilistic]

It was disappointing.

I knew both fighters styles going into the fight but i really thought Haye would take it to Wladimir as soon as the bell rang because surely he didn't think he could beat him by trying to land one big shot and/or outbox him.

Obviously he did think he could, which resulted in an over cautious boring technical boxing match.

Haye talked the talk, but certainly didn't walk the walk.

It didn't help that he tried to blame it all on his baby toe either.

I know people will say Klitschko didn't make the fight exciting either but the way i see it, Haye was the challenger and he did alot more talking than Wlad did so the pressure was on him and basically......... he didn't deliver.

[erics44]

It was disappointing.

I knew both fighters styles going into the fight but i really thought Haye would take it to Wladimir as soon as the bell rang because surely he didn't think he could beat him by trying to land one big shot and/or outbox him.

Obviously he did think he could, which resulted in an over cautious boring technical boxing match.

Haye talked the talk, but certainly didn't walk the walk.

It didn't help that he tried to blame it all on his baby toe either.

I know people will say Klitschko didn't make the fight exciting either but the way i see it, Haye was the challenger and he did alot more talking than Wlad did so the pressure was on him and basically......... he didn't deliver.

wlad also promised to KO haye on plenty of occasions and punish him for 12 rounds and KO him at the end

it was also in germany which is wlads boxing home with the majority of fans in the stadium wlads

lets be honest, haye didnt deliver but it wasnt a boring fight just because of haye, wlad had all the advantages and boxed just as cautious as ever

lets hope the klits retire soon and we might then start to get some excitement back in the HWs

[Pugilistic]

It was disappointing.

I knew both fighters styles going into the fight but i really thought Haye would take it to Wladimir as soon as the bell rang because surely he didn't think he could beat him by trying to land one big shot and/or outbox him.

Obviously he did think he could, which resulted in an over cautious boring technical boxing match.

Haye talked the talk, but certainly didn't walk the walk.

It didn't help that he tried to blame it all on his baby toe either.

I know people will say Klitschko didn't make the fight exciting either but the way i see it, Haye was the challenger and he did alot more talking than Wlad did so the pressure was on him and basically......... he didn't deliver.

wlad also promised to KO haye on plenty of occasions and punish him for 12 rounds and KO him at the end

it was also in germany which is wlads boxing home with the majority of fans in the stadium wlads

lets be honest, haye didnt deliver but it wasnt a boring fight just because of haye, wlad had all the advantages and boxed just as cautious as ever

lets hope the klits retire soon and we might then start to get some excitement back in the HWs

I wrote that Wlad talked also, The problem is Haye did alot more talking, alot more.

Haye was the challenger and didn't take it to Wlad surely knowing it would be much harder to outbox Wlad and especially get a decision in Germany.

Wlad could of done more but he wasn't out there to prove he was better than Haye, we already knew he was.

The division isn't poor because of the Klitschkos either. It's poor because most heavyweights today simply suck. They are either unfit or unskilled or both.

I know the Klitschko's aren't necessarily exciting but at least they bring class to the division. You know that when you watch the klitschkos, you know you are going to see world class boxers, not the crap that most of the division has today.

[Mars_ax]

It was disappointing.

I knew both fighters styles going into the fight but i really thought Haye would take it to Wladimir as soon as the bell rang because surely he didn't think he could beat him by trying to land one big shot and/or outbox him.

Obviously he did think he could, which resulted in an over cautious boring technical boxing match.

Haye talked the talk, but certainly didn't walk the walk.

It didn't help that he tried to blame it all on his baby toe either.

I know people will say Klitschko didn't make the fight exciting either but the way i see it, Haye was the challenger and he did alot more talking than Wlad did so the pressure was on him and basically......... he didn't deliver.

wlad also promised to KO haye on plenty of occasions and punish him for 12 rounds and KO him at the end

it was also in germany which is wlads boxing home with the majority of fans in the stadium wlads

lets be honest, haye didnt deliver but it wasnt a boring fight just because of haye, wlad had all the advantages and boxed just as cautious as ever

lets hope the klits retire soon and we might then start to get some excitement back in the HWs

I wrote that Wlad talked also, The problem is Haye did alot more talking, alot more.

Haye was the challenger and didn't take it to Wlad surely knowing it would be much harder to outbox Wlad and especially get a decision in Germany.

Wlad could of done more but he wasn't out there to prove he was better than Haye, we already knew he was.

The division isn't poor because of the Klitschkos either. It's poor because most heavyweights today simply suck. They are either unfit or unskilled or both.

I know the Klitschko's aren't necessarily exciting but at least they bring class to the division. You know that when you watch the klitschkos, you know you are going to see world class boxers, not the crap that most of the division has today.

Exactly, what I always say is, if you think the HW division is bad now, try to imagine what it would be like without the Klitschko Brothers.

[erics44]

I wrote that Wlad talked also, The problem is Haye did alot more talking, alot more.

Haye was the challenger and didn't take it to Wlad surely knowing it would be much harder to outbox Wlad and especially get a decision in Germany.

Wlad could of done more but he wasn't out there to prove he was better than Haye, we already knew he was.

The division isn't poor because of the Klitschkos either. It's poor because most heavyweights today simply suck. They are either unfit or unskilled or both.

I know the Klitschko's aren't necessarily exciting but at least they bring class to the division. You know that when you watch the klitschkos, you know you are going to see world class boxers, not the crap that most of the division has today.

the HW division is extremely dull and yes there isnt that much competition but the main champion is a dull fighter, far too cautious to ever be in a good fight, so i'd say its a mixture of the lack of tallent and the style of the champion

even in a division void of tallent a tyson as champ would be much more entertaining

we wont have any entertainment in the division until the klits retire

and yes haye probably did more talking but wlad did his fair share and also didnt do as he had promised (there was a period of at least a few weeks in the build up where haye said very little and wlad was doing all the trashing)

and i dont agree that because haye was the challenger he had to do more, he just had to do what he felt would win the fight didnt he?

[erics44]

Exactly, what I always say is, if you think the HW division is bad now, try to imagine what it would be like without the Klitschko Brothers.

perhaps less skill but definately more entertainment

[Mars_ax]

Exactly, what I always say is, if you think the HW division is bad now, try to imagine what it would be like without the Klitschko Brothers.

perhaps less skill but definately more entertainment

Not necessarily either, logically, if you take away the K-Bros, and who have you really got from the rest of the division that's going to provide better fights and/or entertainment. The Klitschko Bros are over criticized, under-appreciated, and will be sorely missed by boxing and the HW division when they're gone.

[Pugilistic]

I wrote that Wlad talked also, The problem is Haye did alot more talking, alot more.

Haye was the challenger and didn't take it to Wlad surely knowing it would be much harder to outbox Wlad and especially get a decision in Germany.

Wlad could of done more but he wasn't out there to prove he was better than Haye, we already knew he was.

The division isn't poor because of the Klitschkos either. It's poor because most heavyweights today simply suck. They are either unfit or unskilled or both.

I know the Klitschko's aren't necessarily exciting but at least they bring class to the division. You know that when you watch the klitschkos, you know you are going to see world class boxers, not the crap that most of the division has today.

the HW division is extremely dull and yes there isnt that much competition but the main champion is a dull fighter, far too cautious to ever be in a good fight, so i'd say its a mixture of the lack of tallent and the style of the champion

even in a division void of tallent a tyson as champ would be much more entertaining

we wont have any entertainment in the division until the klits retire

and yes haye probably did more talking but wlad did his fair share and also didnt do as he had promised (there was a period of at least a few weeks in the build up where haye said very little and wlad was doing all the trashing)

and i dont agree that because haye was the challenger he had to do more, he just had to do what he felt would win the fight didnt he?

Haye must of known he couldn't outbox Wlad and waiting for one shot is a terrible strategy especially against someone of Wlad's caliber.

Wlad and Vitali are only two fighters, they don't affect how bad the rest of the division is and how bad those fights are.

Yeah there fights are dull sometimes especially Wlad but he has to be cautious because his chin is poor.

Once the Klitschkos do retire, i feel sorry for the heavyweight division because it will only get worse imo.

[erics44]

Haye must of known he couldn't outbox Wlad and waiting for one shot is a terrible strategy especially against someone of Wlad's caliber.

Wlad and Vitali are only two fighters, they don't affect how bad the rest of the division is and how bad those fights are.

Yeah there fights are dull sometimes especially Wlad but he has to be cautious because his chin is poor.

Once the Klitschkos do retire, i feel sorry for the heavyweight division because it will only get worse imo.

All of his fights are dull and boring and frustrating appart from when he loses

and it doesnt matter why his boring, he just is

I'm not sure it will get worse, i think it will give some of the lesser fighters more incentive and we might actually get some HW title fights that arent so dull

[erics44]

Exactly, what I always say is, if you think the HW division is bad now, try to imagine what it would be like without the Klitschko Brothers.

perhaps less skill but definately more entertainment

Not necessarily either, logically, if you take away the K-Bros, and who have you really got from the rest of the division that's going to provide better fights and/or entertainment. The Klitschko Bros are over criticized, under-appreciated, and will be sorely missed by boxing and the HW division when they're gone.

thats not really logical, its valid opinion but one i disagree with

My opinion is if you take away the klit bros then the fighters below would then become the top HWs and would be more evenly matched, and there is a chance that an agressive fighter emerges as the top dog

I disagree with your last sentence also, their skill as the best HWs around is widely recognised, Vitali perhaps is over critisized Wlad isnt, he fights over cautious and deserves to be critisized for it, and the HW situation is the most dull it has been in history and that is at large portion due to wlad's style, so the people who dont appreciate this are well within their rights

have you honestly enjoyed a HW title fight involving wlad in the last 5 years?