smoking joe... frazier

[Pugilistic]

only ever lost to foreman and ali, and i think only ever knocked down by foreman?

how would joe of done vs other greats

holmes
liston
rocky m
lewis
tyson
dempsy
louis

his record may not be that impressive ( 32-4) i think
but still i think he does deserve to be in peoples top ten heavys of all time
opinons?

Holmes out points Frazier with that famous jab.

Liston vs Frazier would be slugfest but Frazier extra heart and will would be factor stopping Liston in 10.

Rocky is stopped on cuts Frazier's bobbing and weaving style too much for Rocky.

Lewis should outpoint Frazier unless Frazier gets lucky punch would very well could happen.

Tyson would floor Frazier in early going but once he warms up he takes Tyson's punches and outguts Tyson to stop him in 9th or 10th.

Dempsey too small for Fraizer and Fraizer's bobbing and weaving style too much and he stops Dempsey on his feet in 10th.

Louis's chin wasn't that great and he is too flatfooted which wouldn't be good vs someone like Frazier i think Frazier could ko him in middle rounds.

nicely writen. totally agree CC

[Memphis]

I love Frazier but IMO he's in a world of trouble against a prime Tyson. Frazier Marciano would have been worth watching.

[ICB]

joe got wobbled by fighters like manuel ramos and jerry quarry...Imo these fighters couldn't touch Tyson in his prime. Sorry but Tyson is bigger, stronger, faster and imo has the better chin.
Tyson would knock him out hands down

When was Joe ever wobbled by Quarry ?? i watched both fights and he was never wobbled he got caught with few good punches but never wobbled and i don't know about chin department i would say Frazier has just as good as chin as Tyson and he certainly has more heart.

[ICB]

Tyson
5'11
Weight 224 pounds
Reach 72


Frazier
5' 11-1/2"
Weight: 205 pounds
Reach: 73-1/2"

Although Frazier was a 1/2 taller and 1in and 1/2 reach better he would be at a severe disadvantage handspeed wise and outweighed by almost 20lbs and Prime Tyson was all solid muscle.. He was faster, stronger and more explosive than Frazier... Tyson would manhandle and bully Frazier... Again like mentioned Frazier would take 3 punches to give 1 and Tyson would just bury him in Foreman like fashion.

Hold on minute Tyson wasn't always 224 he could be 220 and lower and Frazier could be up to 214 and higher he was 214 against Foreman.

[JT Rock]

Tyson
5'11
Weight 224 pounds
Reach 72


Frazier
5' 11-1/2"
Weight: 205 pounds
Reach: 73-1/2"

Although Frazier was a 1/2 taller and 1in and 1/2 reach better he would be at a severe disadvantage handspeed wise and outweighed by almost 20lbs and Prime Tyson was all solid muscle.. He was faster, stronger and more explosive than Frazier... Tyson would manhandle and bully Frazier... Again like mentioned Frazier would take 3 punches to give 1 and Tyson would just bury him in Foreman like fashion.

Hold on minute Tyson wasn't always 224 he could be 220 and lower and Frazier could be up to 214 and higher he was 214 against Foreman.

That was his weight against Ali... regardless lets not be petty now, Fine you fancy Frazier over Tyson and vice versa I know you like a good debate as well as I do but when we start squabbling over a FEW pounds then our debate has reached the end of the road and were just grasping at straws 

[Beanflicker]

Tyson
5'11
Weight 224 pounds
Reach 72


Frazier
5' 11-1/2"
Weight: 205 pounds
Reach: 73-1/2"

Although Frazier was a 1/2 taller and 1in and 1/2 reach better he would be at a severe disadvantage handspeed wise and outweighed by almost 20lbs and Prime Tyson was all solid muscle.. He was faster, stronger and more explosive than Frazier... Tyson would manhandle and bully Frazier... Again like mentioned Frazier would take 3 punches to give 1 and Tyson would just bury him in Foreman like fashion.

Hold on minute Tyson wasn't always 224 he could be 220 and lower and Frazier could be up to 214 and higher he was 214 against Foreman.

Yeah but usually if he was over 205 the extra weight was around his waist. Mike Tyson was a rock solid 224.

[ICB]

Tyson
5'11
Weight 224 pounds
Reach 72


Frazier
5' 11-1/2"
Weight: 205 pounds
Reach: 73-1/2"

Although Frazier was a 1/2 taller and 1in and 1/2 reach better he would be at a severe disadvantage handspeed wise and outweighed by almost 20lbs and Prime Tyson was all solid muscle.. He was faster, stronger and more explosive than Frazier... Tyson would manhandle and bully Frazier... Again like mentioned Frazier would take 3 punches to give 1 and Tyson would just bury him in Foreman like fashion.

Hold on minute Tyson wasn't always 224 he could be 220 and lower and Frazier could be up to 214 and higher he was 214 against Foreman.

That was his weight against Ali... regardless lets not be petty now, Fine you fancy Frazier over Tyson and vice versa I know you like a good debate as well as I do but when we start squabbling over a FEW pounds then our debate has reached the end of the road and were just grasping at straws

Not at all Jt was just letting you know fact's plus Tyson was below 220 alot in his young career because you was saying that there were almost 20 pounds difference which wouldn't be case mate not being petty im just telling you wouldn't be that much difference in there weights prime for prime.

[Chris Nagel]

Joe Frazier was/is diabetic, you ever think about how that effected him?

Personally I'd like like to seen a matchup between him and Holyfied.

[Beanflicker]

^Yeah that's pretty insane. No one can ever doubt Frazier's heart which was the size of philly. Going into the third Ali fight legally blind in one eye, with high blood pressure and lower back injury, and then putting up the kind of fight that he did, thats incredible.

[Trainer Monkey]

The thing nobody is taking in to consideration,is the difference in training techniques
You give me Smokin Joe,with Dyna Bands,Creatine,Intervaled Runs,the understanding of how you lift for mass rather than a cut physique,and all the other things that changed in the era between Joe,and Mike
He'll be 220+,and he'll be faster
Physical training has totallly changed now,it changes constantly.
In Joes era,it was,lift weights,run,spar,and work the speed bag
Didnt get much more scientific then that

[Beanflicker]

He'd be a bit stronger and faster but common, he'd be nowhere near Mike's speed and explosiveness.

[THE THIRD MAN]

Frazier was incredible in his day, his style was awkward (as Ali found out) his power was immense.
He fought the best on offer at the time, Machen, Bonavena, Chuvalo, Quarry, Ellis etc before beating Ali in 1971. Only big George really demolished him and i think the first Ali fight took a lot out of him.
He deserves full credit for a great career and he would have beaten most of the guys mentioned.

[Trainer Monkey]

He'd be a bit stronger and faster but common, he'd be nowhere near Mike's speed and explosiveness.

And Tyson is light years away from Joes intelligence,and elusivness
If it was just hitting hard,anyone could do it
Go get yourself a construction worker,and declare him champ
Tyson was a manufactured heavyweight champ,he never fought anyone who could hurt him,and when he finally did,he lost repeatedly

[El Kabong]

Prime for Prime Frazier could take most of those guys....

Frazier had the will and heart to stop Holmes late

Frazier had an up and down bobbing style which would be very effective vs Tyson's hooks but not his uppercuts, I still think Frazier had twice the heart Tyson did and would be able to beat Tyson!!! Frazier's workrate would have been good vs Tyson too.

Lewis would have DEMOLISHED Frazier....Lennox was patient but had HUGE power especially with the uppercut and that would spell big trouble for Frazier.

Joe Louis would beat Joe Frazier, there is no doubt in my mind that Joe Louis was the best all around fighter ever in the heavyweight division.

As for Dempsey and Marciano it would hard to tell seeing how neither man ever got KO'd and neither man lost decisions routinely...I think Frazier's size would be a factor but not as much as his workrate which I think would be more effective vs Dempsey who threw mostly haymakers....Rocky was constantly throwing punches from bell to bell!!!!

Frazier-Liston is the toughest for me to call I think mainly due to the way Foreman handled Frazier

[ICB]

Prime for Prime Frazier could take most of those guys....

Frazier had the will and heart to stop Holmes late

Frazier had an up and down bobbing style which would be very effective vs Tyson's hooks but not his uppercuts, I still think Frazier had twice the heart Tyson did and would be able to beat Tyson!!! Frazier's workrate would have been good vs Tyson too.

Lewis would have DEMOLISHED Frazier....Lennox was patient but had HUGE power especially with the uppercut and that would spell big trouble for Frazier.

Joe Louis would beat Joe Frazier, there is no doubt in my mind that Joe Louis was the best all around fighter ever in the heavyweight division.

As for Dempsey and Marciano it would hard to tell seeing how neither man ever got KO'd and neither man lost decisions routinely...I think Frazier's size would be a factor but not as much as his workrate which I think would be more effective vs Dempsey who threw mostly haymakers....Rocky was constantly throwing punches from bell to bell!!!!

Frazier-Liston is the toughest for me to call I think mainly due to the way Foreman handled Frazier

Disagree Louis had suspect chin and he was flatfooted so it wouldn't be hard for Fraizer to get to him he would stop Louis imo.