Ali's stand against the U.S government

[El Kabong]

No he didn't pay taxes on EXHIBITION boxing matches he performed for the US Army....also deductions were not made for his contributions to nonprofit organizations and so on

Also Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey got drug through the mud as well

[Lance Uppercut]

True, but he also wasn't paying (federal) taxes on any of his fights from 1931 to 1939. But I dont want to be bashing Joe Louis. He was a great guy.

[No Contest]

Lets not turn this into a religious or political thread(I know the subject isnt really conducive to that)What I really was getting at was how much could those 3 years have changed the Ali that we all know. It was 3 years in his prime.

[Trainer Monkey]

First off
There is a massive difference between a gun shot and a punch
You dishonor the entire sport by suggesting otherwise
Secondly when have Christians been peaceful?I refer you to the inquisition,and the crusades
Thirdly,Ali and Joe have made their peace,your attempt to keep pumping it is a cheap attempt to politicise a fight for your own intrest
Im from Philly,Ive trained at Fraziers,my fighter was in Fraziers this Thursday,and you are full of it
Keep your damned political agenda away,its sports not politics,but seeing your politics I can see why it blurs for you

OH DO I Boxing is a MARTIAL art and therefore is a system of combat much like shooting people with guns only in the professional genre of the sport people don't usually die on purpose.

If Ali was a Christian he could have just as easily said the same thing being a Christian and I would have argued the same point....Inquisition and all just like you did.

...I don't pump it up, I'm merely pointing out that if Ali LOVED everyone as a true religious/spiritual person then he wouldn't have strived so hard to offend guys like Joe Frazier...I am happy Joe was the bigger man and let bygons be bygons.


My point is that it's a little convenient for Ali to become so religious when his a** is about to be shipped over to Vietnam....kind of like George W. getting in the National Guard....I have no issues with that really but it was another way out of going to Vietnam but alas it's a LEGAL way out.

Muhammed Ali is a hero to many people, obviously not to me, I don't doubt that he was great or whatever but I am not going to say he's without his faults.

Don't attack me, hell if everyone agreed on everything there wouldn't be any debating at all....(unless they all agreed that there should be debating)...I am one of the people who don't agree with Ali....I'm not a racist or a bigot or anything evil....I don't have to agree with him and what he did and you don't have to agree with me so if it gets you all riled up, I'm sorry but you're going to have to suck it up and be a man and deal with it

Yes you do
Its like saying a martial artist exists only to hit people,rather then knowing how and not
Suck it up and deal with it
And again Ali wouldnt have seen one ounce of combat,he'd have done exhibitions in safe zones
My dad did fight in the damn thing,he'd have never seen Ali,wouldnt have been safe enough

[Chris Nagel]

Lets not turn this into a religious or political thread(I know the subject isnt really conducive to that)What I really was getting at was how much could those 3 years have changed the Ali that we all know. It was 3 years in his prime.

Dundee said it himself that we have never seen the best of him. I think that period made all the difference.

[El Kabong]

....what happened to agreeing to disagree.


Fine hate me because I don't love Ali....if that's the way it's going to be it won't be fun for anyone

[Trainer Monkey]

Lyle
My Great Uncle Tony served at Pearl Harbour
My Dad served in Nam
Both as Marines
Im somehow able to see the difference between Kata 3,an Uppercut,a Rap,and napalm

[amat]

Should stay out of this one, and sorry No Contest I know this topic doesn't help much, but Ali didn't "all the sudden" become religous to get out of the war. It wasn't like he was given his draft number then all of the sudden he was a Black Muslim.

Anyways, take 3 years of their prime out of most any great fighter in history, and I bet there is no way most any of them become the best of all time in their division. I mean, some guys are considered because of what they do in just 3 years, Ali had that taken away from him and is still undoubtedly (in my mind) the greatest Heavyweight of all time.

[El Kabong]

I won't even argue anymore...just go ahead....let's all follow Ali, greatest ever....let's never question ANY of his decisions.....the decision has been made so start following everyone....everyone fall in line

[Trainer Monkey]

I won't even argue anymore...just go ahead....let's all follow Ali, greatest ever....let's never question ANY of his decisions.....the decision has been made so start following everyone....everyone fall in line

Way to take the low road while pretending to take the high one
How many hours of Oreilly do you watch a week?

[No Contest]

Go ahead and argue man, Im reading your points. I never liked Ali as much as everyone else does until I got past the brash talking bravado. I always wanted Frazier in those three fights. Frazier was my favorite and I didnt agree with Ali's calling him a gorilla, and all that junk, but it sold a hell of a lot of tickets. I actually laughed when Frazier went after him in that interview.I not a Ali worshipper just giving him credit where credit is due.

[El Kabong]

Way to take the low road while pretending to take the high one
How many hours of Oreilly do you watch a week?

I don't watch O'Reilly and does it really matter what I post in this thread now? Just because I don't agree with everything Ali did I'm a pariah... oh and I only disagree with Ali because I'm a mean hateful person who is not related to anyone who ever served in the military EVER....and I kick vets and spit on them whenever I get the chance because they believe in Ali too.

[No Contest]

I cc'd you Lyle for being against the grain, sticking to your belief and not liking Ali...see thats what Ali did back when he refused the draft.

[El Kabong]

Ok here we go ON TOPIC, this will not involve any personal attacks or any defense of my views.

Muhammed Ali was a racist just as much as George Wallace, he wanted segregation, he called Ernie Terrell an Uncle Tom...I mean let's reminisce shall we

"We who follow the teachings of Elijah Muhammad don't want to be forced to integrate. Integration is wrong. We don't want to live with the white man; that's all."

"No intelligent black man or black woman in his or her right black mind wants white boys and white girls coming to their homes to marry their black sons and daughters"

All the Nation of Islam "white devil" stuff was coming out of Ali's mouth the same time this stand against the US bullcrap was going around in regards to Vietnam. And Ali called it a "christian war" too.



I am very pleased that I am not alone in my beliefs http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main...04/bfali04.xml

[X]

On a related topic, if we still had national service (similar to a draft) here in the UK, we would have less chavvy hoodie thugs loitering around the street mugging and killing people.

It would be much better to send them to Iraq to kill them instead.