Juan Diaz P4P huh?Dear me....

[CutMeMick]

Not now Mick I mean before the Campbell fight.
24 years old, 9 straight defenses. IBF, WBA and WBO lightweight champion, closest to a unified champ in the whole of boxing at that time.

Last I checked age had nothing to do with P4P status....
The fact that Acelinos the biggest name on his resume speaks for itself.

How the fuck had Mijares done more, beat an overhyped Jorge Arce?

Not sure if you realize this mate but Arces a future Hall of Famer.
Wether YOU agree with it or not is another story but fact is hes going to Canastota. You call Arce over hyped that is absurd as he showed fight in and fight out that he stepped in the ring to fight and try to win.
If I remember correctly in another thread you made a comment about Mijares fighting to a draw with Maldonado whom I'm pretty sure you said wait that names sounds familiar and you went searching and clicking on names on BoxRec and you found out he has since then lost to Vic and to Nonito not having seen the fight you thought it'd be smart of you to mention that Mijares fought to a draw agains that same guy...
Look for the fight and watch it tell me if you think Maldonado fought the same. Truth is Maldonado was on one that night and IMO fought his ass off. Mijares himself didn't fight his fight and let off. No excuses hes bounced back and has beaten 2 World Class guys in Arce and Kawashima.

What makes me laugh is that you yourself have said plenty times that you don't rate the small guys and that you could beat them and punch them into the next world Buuuuut you sure as hell like to comment on them and make comments on how much they suck and don't deserve things. For someone whos not interested in the smaller guys you sure type like if you follow them closely....

With Hatton and Marquez both losing their last fights, a case could have been made for an unbeaten Diaz to nip above them in the rankings.

Because you loose a fight DOES NOT necessairly mean your off the P4P list. (This can depend on several things the way the fight went, who you lost to etc. etc.)

To say he wasnt close to p4p based on merit is just hating imo

Well Bilbs I never one said he wasn't close to P4P.
I've never rated him but if I had to rate him pre-Nate fight I would guess somewhere around 11-16.

[Majesty]

Majesty wrote:Cotto got on the p4p off of Shane Mosley's "name" but the names you mentioned when Cotto fought them weren't considered to be a big threat at all."

To be honest,I stopped reading after that. I've seen MANY knowledgeable boxing writers and members here at Saddo's and other forums say Cotto would lose to Paulie,Quintana,Mosley etc. So your statement goes out of the window.

Those posters weren't me. So you can't throw my statement out the window.

I can't speak for the other forum members only myself, so using someone else's opinion to throw mine out the window is a bit childish.

I didnt pick Paulie to beat Cotto. I said Cotto would kill Quintana as soon as he turned his side to him(which is exactly how the process started) And I didnt pick Mosley to beat Cotto.

So you can't throw my opinion out the window because I picked consistantly with what I was saying, I didn't change it to make a point.

[El Gamo]

I had Juan Diaz in my P4P list and i don't see there was anything wrong with it, Acelino Freitas, Julio Diaz, were very good wins and IMO Diaz rightfully deserved to be in the top 10 P4P. Obviously he is out of my P4P list now but im not writing him off i think he will beat Campbell in a rematch and get back to dominating Lightweight division, not to make excuses but i think the head butt early on that caused the cut was a big disadvantage for Diaz, he had never dealt with anything like that before but he passed with flying colors and was able to last the distance. I think it was a good learning experience for Diaz and he will comeback stronger than ever from this loss you mark my words.

Cristian Mijares has some good wins.Carlos Quintana has some good wins.They aren't P4P.Like I said before,no-one really put forward a solid case for Juan Diaz to be P4P,it was simply a case of,he's unbeaten,has 2-3 decent wins,why not put him in there.

And I agree,I think he'll come back but it goes to show putting him in the P4P lists was rather premature. Nate would have beaten him,cut or no cut.Julio couldnt out will and break down Campbell, and that's a HUGE part of his game.And I really don't understand the "he passed with flying colours " part:he lost.He did well to survive.

[ICB]

Cristian Mijares has some good wins.Carlos Quintana has some good wins.They aren't P4P.Like I said before,no-one really put forward a solid case for Juan Diaz to be P4P,it was simply a case of,he's unbeaten,has 2-3 decent wins,why not put him in there.

And I agree,I think he'll come back but it goes to show putting him in the P4P lists was rather premature. Nate would have beaten him,cut or no cut.Julio couldnt out will and break down Campbell, and that's a HUGE part of his game.And I really don't understand the "he passed with flying colours " part:he lost.He did well to survive.

I'll admit i went on Juan Diaz bandwagon i was very impressed with his two wins over Freitas, Julio Diaz. Maybe i did put him up there a bit premature but im not going to lie and say i didn't think he deserved to be there just because he lost. And my opinion of him hasn't changed at all, and what i meant by passed with flying colors, is that Diaz dealt with that adversity of being badly cut and his eye being virtually closed. But yet he kept coming forward and never gave up, Campbell was just superb rolling with Diaz's punches and throwing almost 1200 + punches. I think it was more to do with how great Campbell fought rather than Diaz *being exposed*. I think Diaz's biggest weakness is that he has no power and that cost him tonight. But like i said he will be back stronger than ever and IMO he will beat Campbell in a rematch.

[Mikkel_K]

Like I said before,no-one really put forward a solid case for Juan Diaz to be P4P,it was simply a case of,he's unbeaten,has 2-3 decent wins,why not put him in there.

And I agree,I think he'll come back but it goes to show putting him in the P4P lists was rather premature.

I think it was also due to the fact that Juan Diaz held 3 alphabet belts (and - Ring belt or not - was generally considered the MAN) in one of the most prestigious divisions in boxing. That on paper should be enough to qualify you for p4p consideration, especially given he was undefeated to boot.

Personally I never had him in the top 10 (probably top 20 though), and I agree today's hindsight proves he never belonged there, but to laugh at the very notion of him being p4p seems a bit over the top.

[El Gamo]

I think it was also due to the fact that Juan Diaz held 3 alphabet belts (and - Ring belt or not - was generally considered the MAN) in one of the most prestigious divisions in boxing. That on paper should be enough to qualify you for p4p consideration, especially given he was undefeated to boot.

Personally I never had him in the top 10 (probably top 20 though), and I agree today's hindsight proves he never belonged there, but to laugh at the very notion of him being p4p seems a bit over the top.

Certainly,he was a top 20 contender,but in the top 10 fighters in the world,based on his record(which is good but not P4P just yet),absolutely not imo and I feel fully vindicated now. I certainly wasn't laughing at the notion but I thought people were getting carried away by the hype,that's all.

[:::PSL:::]

I think it was also due to the fact that Juan Diaz held 3 alphabet belts (and - Ring belt or not - was generally considered the MAN) in one of the most prestigious divisions in boxing. That on paper should be enough to qualify you for p4p consideration, especially given he was undefeated to boot.

Personally I never had him in the top 10 (probably top 20 though), and I agree today's hindsight proves he never belonged there, but to laugh at the very notion of him being p4p seems a bit over the top.

Yea. This just proves that belts doesn't mean sh1t that much these days.

[Pavlik]

If Baby Bull had a lil more Pop in his punches he will be almost unstoppable because as of now if you can WITHSTAND his barrage and have POWER looks like the kid doesnt have a plan B I can just imagine if he is up against a fighter who can stick and move with the same handpseed and stamina as him but with more POWER how can he cope?

[The Rookie Fan]

Yea. This just proves that belts doesn't mean sh1t that much these days.

I think this is unfair. I don't give a sh*t what The Ring sais. Baby Bull was the man at 135. Casa is done and he clearly loss his last fight bad. And I still think Diaz would beat Casa.

Cambell pulled an Ace off his sleave and fought the perfect fight to win. Diaz is still young and this loss might do one of two things. Either he decides to he wants to be a lawyer and leaves boxing or he becomes rededicated to the sport and comes back better than he was.

If I was a fair man I would say go be a lawyer and make some money while being nice and confertable in some leather chair at a big office. But I'm a boxing fan so I'm hoping for the latter option.

[RozzySean]

I had Juan Diaz in my P4P list and i don't see there was anything wrong with it, Acelino Freitas, Julio Diaz, were very good wins and IMO Diaz rightfully deserved to be in the top 10 P4P. Obviously he is out of my P4P list now but im not writing him off i think he will beat Campbell in a rematch and get back to dominating Lightweight division, not to make excuses but i think the head butt early on that caused the cut was a big disadvantage for Diaz, he had never dealt with anything like that before but he passed with flying colors and was able to last the distance. I think it was a good learning experience for Diaz and he will comeback stronger than ever from this loss you mark my words.

I'm not so sure about that, Ice. You are usually on point, but you are way off on this one. El Gamo hit it on the head exactly. He beat an old Popo and Julio Diaz isn't that good. He wasn't anywhere near p4p, and honestly, he never will be.

I'll add this, JD is not going to develop power if he hasn't already. Ice, you box, so you should know this. If you don't have much defense and you are going to rely on workrate, you better have something on your punches if you are going to beat TOP opposition. People compare Diaz to Hatton, but Hatton has MUCH better one-punch power. Like Hatton, he's steady and relentless. JD isn't explosive. Even when he landed cleanly on Campbell it didn't bother him.

I don't think he beats Campbell in a rematch. He got taken to school and unless Nate get old overnight, the result will be the same.

[ICB]

I'm not so sure about that, Ice. You are usually on point, but you are way off on this one. El Gamo hit it on the head exactly. He beat an old Popo and Julio Diaz isn't that good. He wasn't anywhere near p4p, and honestly, he never will be.

I'll add this, JD is not going to develop power if he hasn't already. Ice, you box, so you should know this. If you don't have much defense and you are going to rely on workrate, you better have something on your punches if you are going to beat TOP opposition. People compare Diaz to Hatton, but Hatton has MUCH better one-punch power. Like Hatton, he's steady and relentless. JD isn't explosive. Even when he landed cleanly on Campbell it didn't bother him.

I don't think he beats Campbell in a rematch. He got taken to school and unless Nate get old overnight, the result will be the same.

Oh I totally Sean i'll admit i did jump on Juan Diaz bandwagon and looking back with hindsight i probably did put him too high. But like i said to El Gamo im not going to lie and say i didn't put him up there when i did.

I never said he would develop power bro in fact i don't have a lot of power either, but i have speed so i rely on timing and speed plus im also taller than most of the guys in my gym so i also use leverage. Diaz actually reminds me of Jesus Chavez they both are similar in height they both have swarming style and they both rely on workrate, plus they both aren't big punchers. The thing i noticed about Diaz is that he doesn't get his body into a shot he mostly throws arm punches and just relies on beating his opponent down with barrage of punishment. I don't think Diaz has been exposed like i said there has always been the big weakness with Diaz that he doesn't have power and being Diaz fan i was always worried about that. Can Campbell repeat a performance like that again though Sean ?? remember the old saying that every fighter always has one good fight left in him, and Campbell certainly proved that point by fighting a tremondous fight. But with his age can he repeat another performance like that ?? i sure hope so because Campbell is excellent to watch.

[Julius Rain]

Ok now we all know what julius rain knew.....he sucks



see you guys, daxx v.d. and me had mention this just a few days ago. The guy sucks

ok maybe he doesn't suck that bad, people just overrated him too soon.

P4P

[El Gamo]

Ok now we all know what julius rain knew.....he sucks



see you guys, daxx v.d. and me had mention this just a few days ago. The guy sucks

ok maybe he doesn't suck that bad, people just overrated him too soon.

P4P

Juan Diaz doesn't "suck". He was over rated by some but as I said before,he's still young,still can build a great legacy and still would give Manny a tough fight

Rep on me Ice,for being honest and admitting to it and Rozzy Sean for good points although I disagree,I think Juan can still do good things,I jsut don't think he's some kind of monster.

[RozzySean]

Oh I totally Sean i'll admit i did jump on Juan Diaz bandwagon and looking back with hindsight i probably did put him too high. But like i said to El Gamo im not going to lie and say i didn't put him up there when i did.

I never said he would develop power bro in fact i don't have a lot of power either, but i have speed so i rely on timing and speed plus im also taller than most of the guys in my gym so i also use leverage. Diaz actually reminds me of Jesus Chavez they both are similar in height they both have swarming style and they both rely on workrate, plus they both aren't big punchers. The thing i noticed about Diaz is that he doesn't get his body into a shot he mostly throws arm punches and just relies on beating his opponent down with barrage of punishment. I don't think Diaz has been exposed like i said there has always been the big weakness with Diaz that he doesn't have power and being Diaz fan i was always worried about that. Can Campbell repeat a performance like that again though Sean ?? remember the old saying that every fighter always has one good fight left in him, and Campbell certainly proved that point by fighting a tremondous fight. But with his age can he repeat another performance like that ?? i sure hope so because Campbell is excellent to watch.

Right. If you don't have great power, you need to have speed, times, reach, skill - you need to be a boxer. You fight with the tools you have. A swarmer with limited power can be very good - Jesus Chavez was very good, but not great. Not p4p. I agree that's a pretty good analogy, Chavez and Diaz. I never thought of Chavez as being a p4p guy, either.

That's the real question, Ice....can Nate repeat that performance. He's an old fighter with a lot of miles on him, and it could be last night burned off the last of gas in his tank. If that was Campbell's last good fight, which it might be, JD will have a good chance in the rematch. He may make some improvements, but I don't ever see him as being a p4p. HBO hyped him up a ton, and he's been very well managed. Don't get me wrong, I like Diaz, too, but I don't every see him being a dominating force.

[Majesty]

Diaz deserved to be on the p4p lists. He was the most consistant winning lightweight while people like Corrales and Castillo and Casamayor were all beating and losing to each other he kept winning while under the radar. He deserved it i would not rank him above casamayor but he deserved to be there. Now that he's lost of course take him off but why werent people saying this prior to the fight