Is Juan Manuel Marquez Over Rated?

[Addicted to_boxing]

If Pacquiao didn't exist, Marquez would be another boxer that got ignored. He is visible when he's in the ring against a brawler. This is when his fights are exciting. He is only overrated by his groupies, and commentators that don't like Pacquiao because they think he is overrated otherwise Marquez gets his just due.

completely redundant

That typifies this entire thread. Hell, it typifies 90% of the posts here for the last month.

* Destroyed Barrera (prime) a fighter whose camp was interrupted several times due to dangerous brush fires. Whose former promoter tried to sabbotage by leaking to the press that MAB had a surgery to his brain and a plate inserted. Combined the inability to train 100 due to air quality alerts and a media frenzy and underestimated by MAB
* Lost UD Morales - extremely competitive fight. EM had already been in many ring wars
* Destroyed Morales (Prime) see above. Morales entered fight coming off loss to MAB
* Destroyed Morales -- Had no business even being in the ring after entering the bout having his @ss served in an extremely lopsided loss to Zahir Raheem in his prior fight.
* Beat Barrera - already a spent boxer entered the fight coming off a loss to JMM.
* Beat Marquez? 1st fight - Unable to close the show after a tremendous 1st round. 3 knock downs winds up with a draw not a win as you have posted. Was thoroughly schooled but still should have won the decision
* Beat Marquez? 2nd fight. Once again is schooled by JMM manages only one KD yet wins a decision most professional analyst say he lost. If they fight a 3rd and it finishes in similar fashion expect the judges to give JMM the decision as restitution.
* Beat Diaz (not all that) try nothing
Destroyed de la Hoya, a washed up slow and plodding boxer that even Roach had said prior to their fight that he could no longer pull the trigger. Which is like try to claim kudos for bagging Tyra Banks after menopause based on what she accomplished before. Anyone knows a fighter making those kind of weight changes that late in their career and that only fights one a year is bound to lose. To add to matters ODLH has a hand in the PAC vs Hatton fight. Ringling Bros . in da HOUSE !!*
* Next Hatton - Hmmm, one big win over Kostya, an a "W" against a not interested in boxing or making weight JLC and a light hitting PM ...... The Kostya win is lost in peoples minds by a PBF KO Blooper highlight for the ages !!! (simply put OVER RATED !!!!) Mental state is still questionable fighting 2 light hitting low risk opponents in Juan Lazcano and Paul Malignaggi. Yet we are supposed to raise the Pac legend more based on this fights outcome ? Mayweather already took Hattons virginity. Cotto also has not proven he is mentally stable having KO'd a the light hitting Jennings (another in a long line of UK fighters to lay an egg on the big is stage. Mosley may not be able to put back to back masterpieces at his age So only 3 fights for Pac are legit.
PBF - After a PBF tune up fight to clear ring rust
JMM at 135 - 2 fights ever so close for comfort
Ortiz - Put to rest the image of not fighting a young, powerful and dangerous opponent on his resume (after Ortiz beats a a top 3 contender)

See a pattern? Precision match making: Foe must be battle worn, over 30, coming off a loss, or mentally unstable ...... ARUM #1 P4P match scheduling for PAC

[The Fightfan]

Nope

[OumaFan]

completely redundant

That typifies this entire thread. Hell, it typifies 90% of the posts here for the last month.

* Destroyed Barrera (prime) a fighter whose camp was interrupted several times due to dangerous brush fires. Whose former promoter tried to sabbotage by leaking to the press that MAB had a surgery to his brain and a plate inserted. Combined the inability to train 100 due to air quality alerts and a media frenzy and underestimated by MAB
* Lost UD Morales - extremely competitive fight. EM had already been in many ring wars
* Destroyed Morales (Prime) see above. Morales entered fight coming off loss to MAB
* Destroyed Morales -- Had no business even being in the ring after entering the bout having his @ss served in an extremely lopsided loss to Zahir Raheem in his prior fight.
* Beat Barrera - already a spent boxer entered the fight coming off a loss to JMM.
* Beat Marquez? 1st fight - Unable to close the show after a tremendous 1st round. 3 knock downs winds up with a draw not a win as you have posted. Was thoroughly schooled but still should have won the decision
* Beat Marquez? 2nd fight. Once again is schooled by JMM manages only one KD yet wins a decision most professional analyst say he lost. If they fight a 3rd and it finishes in similar fashion expect the judges to give JMM the decision as restitution.
* Beat Diaz (not all that) try nothing
Destroyed de la Hoya, a washed up slow and plodding boxer that even Roach had said prior to their fight that he could no longer pull the trigger. Which is like try to claim kudos for bagging Tyra Banks after menopause based on what she accomplished before. Anyone knows a fighter making those kind of weight changes that late in their career and that only fights one a year is bound to lose. To add to matters ODLH has a hand in the PAC vs Hatton fight. Ringling Bros . in da HOUSE !!*
* Next Hatton - Hmmm, one big win over Kostya, an a "W" against a not interested in boxing or making weight JLC and a light hitting PM ...... The Kostya win is lost in peoples minds by a PBF KO Blooper highlight for the ages !!! (simply put OVER RATED !!!!) Mental state is still questionable fighting 2 light hitting low risk opponents in Juan Lazcano and Paul Malignaggi. Yet we are supposed to raise the Pac legend more based on this fights outcome ? Mayweather already took Hattons virginity. Cotto also has not proven he is mentally stable having KO'd a the light hitting Jennings (another in a long line of UK fighters to lay an egg on the big is stage. Mosley may not be able to put back to back masterpieces at his age So only 3 fights for Pac are legit.
PBF - After a PBF tune up fight to clear ring rust
JMM at 135 - 2 fights ever so close for comfort
Ortiz - Put to rest the image of not fighting a young, powerful and dangerous opponent on his resume (after Ortiz beats a a top 3 contender)

See a pattern? Precision match making: Foe must be battle worn, over 30, coming off a loss, or mentally unstable ...... ARUM #1 P4P match scheduling for PAC

Silliness. Precision match making isn't taking on a legend in his prime as your first fight at 126. Then right after that giving a guy like JMM a chance when he absolutely did not have to, saying who gives a shit about risk/reward, and then after that wanting an immediate rematch. Oh well that fight couldn't be made, lets fight Erik Morales then. Yeah what a chicken shit, what a cherry picker. This has gotten absurd.

For all of the talk about ODLH, the majority thought Pac was going to be slaughtered and that's really besides the point, any fighter would have taken that opportunity, JMM included so the criticism of it is ridiculous.

And now he's fighting Hatton, the man at 140. Cherry picking at its finest. Fucking hell, what a disgrace to the sport Manny is.

[MIKAY]

completely redundant

That typifies this entire thread. Hell, it typifies 90% of the posts here for the last month.

* Destroyed Barrera (prime) a fighter whose camp was interrupted several times due to dangerous brush fires. Whose former promoter tried to sabbotage by leaking to the press that MAB had a surgery to his brain and a plate inserted. Combined the inability to train 100 due to air quality alerts and a media frenzy and underestimated by MAB
* Lost UD Morales - extremely competitive fight. EM had already been in many ring wars
* Destroyed Morales (Prime) see above. Morales entered fight coming off loss to MAB
* Destroyed Morales -- Had no business even being in the ring after entering the bout having his @ss served in an extremely lopsided loss to Zahir Raheem in his prior fight.
* Beat Barrera - already a spent boxer entered the fight coming off a loss to JMM.
* Beat Marquez? 1st fight - Unable to close the show after a tremendous 1st round. 3 knock downs winds up with a draw not a win as you have posted. Was thoroughly schooled but still should have won the decision
* Beat Marquez? 2nd fight. Once again is schooled by JMM manages only one KD yet wins a decision most professional analyst say he lost. If they fight a 3rd and it finishes in similar fashion expect the judges to give JMM the decision as restitution.
* Beat Diaz (not all that) try nothing
Destroyed de la Hoya, a washed up slow and plodding boxer that even Roach had said prior to their fight that he could no longer pull the trigger. Which is like try to claim kudos for bagging Tyra Banks after menopause based on what she accomplished before. Anyone knows a fighter making those kind of weight changes that late in their career and that only fights one a year is bound to lose. To add to matters ODLH has a hand in the PAC vs Hatton fight. Ringling Bros . in da HOUSE !!*
* Next Hatton - Hmmm, one big win over Kostya, an a "W" against a not interested in boxing or making weight JLC and a light hitting PM ...... The Kostya win is lost in peoples minds by a PBF KO Blooper highlight for the ages !!! (simply put OVER RATED !!!!) Mental state is still questionable fighting 2 light hitting low risk opponents in Juan Lazcano and Paul Malignaggi. Yet we are supposed to raise the Pac legend more based on this fights outcome ? Mayweather already took Hattons virginity. Cotto also has not proven he is mentally stable having KO'd a the light hitting Jennings (another in a long line of UK fighters to lay an egg on the big is stage. Mosley may not be able to put back to back masterpieces at his age So only 3 fights for Pac are legit.
PBF - After a PBF tune up fight to clear ring rust
JMM at 135 - 2 fights ever so close for comfort
Ortiz - Put to rest the image of not fighting a young, powerful and dangerous opponent on his resume (after Ortiz beats a a top 3 contender)

See a pattern? Precision match making: Foe must be battle worn, over 30, coming off a loss, or mentally unstable ...... ARUM #1 P4P match scheduling for PAC

Jesus Christ i thought Pac fans were bad, but Marquez's fans take the prize.

Barrera - Next your going to tell me he had a kidney and a lung removed before the fight. Barrera was prime/or close to prime when he first fought manny end off.

Morales - Even though he lost prior to rematch he was still one hell of a fighter, nobody did what manyy did to him back then.

Marquez - First fight was a draw end off, second marquez LOST end of. It doesnt matter if you, your nan, your dog, or your nieghber thought otherwise. Only the judges opinions count. And where do you get all this "a majority of boxing experts thought marquez won" did you watch the fight? Even the commentators, HBO anylists had Manny winning by 3 rounds if not more. I know it was closer but dam Manny comfortably won. GET OVER IT

Dela Hoya - Now you must be joking. 12 months prior to the fight hoya when 12 round split decision with mayweather!!. Everybody, including myself didnt give manny a chance in hell. Just because Manny made him look silly doesnt make him shit. Thats just how good of a performance it was. I gurantee you Hoya beats marquez easily.

Hatton - Again 12 months ago nobody would of considered this a boxing match but a brutal beating for manny. Now just because he destroyed hoya does no way make this any less of an accomplishment/ if he wins ofcourse. Hattons a monster compared to pac.

Let me just say this, Marquez is a great fighter but he does not have a career defining fight/win under his belt. Simple as

[Spicoli]

It just seems everybody is raving on about this guy like hes the next best thing since sliced bread. Dont get me wrong hes a good fighter but no way hes an ATG, every time hes stepped up hes lost and to be honest hasnt beat a top 10 p4p at his peak ever. It seems like the fans/mexican fans are clinging on to that last hope, after most of the mexican greats have retired or fallen. I dont know if its just me but his record isnt all that either:

Lost to F Norwood
Drew with Pac (should have lost)
Lost to C John
Beat an old Barrera
Lost to Pac
Beat an old Casamayor
Beat Diaz (not a top p4pder either)

People that have him at current p4p no1 must be crazy. Should be Pac 1, then hopkins 2 (arguble personel choice). Dam hokins at 44yrs old beat the living hell out of Pavlic which should be held in higher regard to Marques's win over Diaz. Even pacs record demolishes marques's

Destroyed Barrera (prime)
Lost UD Morales
Destroyed Morales (Prime)
Destroyed Morales
Beat Barrera
Beat Marquez 2wice
Beat Diaz (not all that)
Destroyed dela Hoya ( Massive underdog, tiny compared to Hoya)
Next Hatton (Again 6 months ago people were saying no chance)

If Pacquiao didn't exist, Marquez would be another boxer that got ignored. He is visible when he's in the ring against a brawler. This is when his fights are exciting. He is only overrated by his groupies, and commentators that don't like Pacquiao because they think he is overrated otherwise Marquez gets his just due.

And exactly what would constitute being ignored ??You mean being ranked within the top 6 by The Ring by his 17th professional fight.....and within the top ten consistantly for the last 13 + years......Or possibly that both made they're respected HBO debuts within months of one another.....Albeit Pac as a 2 week last minute substitute and fill in for...cough...Enrique Sanchez?

You guys really need to let go of it...Marquez is an equal to Pacquiao,both are supreme fighters with different respected styles and skillsets........and last I checked Manny is set to fight Ricky Hatton,Good luck with that!

[Andre]

The gist of this thread seems the the same as the other threads; all attempting to pump up Pacs fans by putting down his closest rival.

Attempted Result: People who have followed fight styles for their whole lives cant hold a candle to anyone who follows only Pac man.

Marquez is the technically the better boxer.think about what he came back from and what he did against PAC that was pure skill and pure balls and chin.

Pac is naturally the stronger person and can take more risks because of it.

So Pac wins against Marquez..

big deal you dont need to put Marquez down to make Pac bigger than he already is (even in our eyes). WE KNOW ALREADY

If you need to put Marquez down or others down who follow his great boxing style so as to make yourselves all feel bigger,then that is very sad for you at this stage in your life , (if you cant generate it for yourself I mean).

[fan johnny]

If Pacquiao didn't exist, Marquez would be another boxer that got ignored. He is visible when he's in the ring against a brawler. This is when his fights are exciting. He is only overrated by his groupies, and commentators that don't like Pacquiao because they think he is overrated otherwise Marquez gets his just due.

And exactly what would constitute being ignored ??You mean being ranked within the top 6 by The Ring by his 17th professional fight.....and within the top ten consistantly for the last 13 + years......Or possibly that both made they're respected HBO debuts within months of one another.....Albeit Pac as a 2 week last minute substitute and fill in for...cough...Enrique Sanchez?

You guys really need to let go of it...Marquez is an equal to Pacquiao,both are supreme fighters with different respected styles and skillsets........and last I checked Manny is set to fight Ricky Hatton,Good luck with that!

You are misconstruing my statements about Marquez's popularity to a that of his ability.

Do a little google search and look at the career of Marquez. It tanked, twice. By himself he doesn't have the appeal. Marquez is a great fighter and I'm one of the first to say he proved that when he beat Diaz.

I'LL BE LOUD AND CLEAR. MARQUEZ IS NOT OVERRATED BY THE BOXING COMMUNITY, HE DESERVES HIS P4P #2 RATING.

[Taeth]

I think some people on here overrate him, but overall he is a great fighter, I don't think he is as good as he once was, and I think because he matches up so well with Pacquiao that some are inclined to think he is better than he actually is, but he is on the same level or Morales and Barrera which is the highest compliment any boxer could be given, especially mexican fighters.

[JT Rock]

I think some people on here overrate him, but overall he is a great fighter, I don't think he is as good as he once was, and I think because he matches up so well with Pacquiao that some are inclined to think he is better than he actually is, but he is on the same level or Morales and Barrera which is the highest compliment any boxer could be given, especially mexican fighters.

JMM deserves every last bit of his accolades.. He isint as physically gifted as Pac or some of your so called dynamic fighters... He is technically sound with GREAT in ring intelligence and ability to adapt. He just isint some obscure fighter who happens to be Pac's achilles heal, He is a 1st ballot hall of famer.. Last time I checked those guys arent usually considered ovverated...

IMO JMM after the Diaz fight is just a step ahead Morales and MAB... Especially if MAB loses to Kahn. which will probably happen

[Spicoli]

If Pacquiao didn't exist, Marquez would be another boxer that got ignored. He is visible when he's in the ring against a brawler. This is when his fights are exciting. He is only overrated by his groupies, and commentators that don't like Pacquiao because they think he is overrated otherwise Marquez gets his just due.

And exactly what would constitute being ignored ??You mean being ranked within the top 6 by The Ring by his 17th professional fight.....and within the top ten consistently for the last 13 + years......Or possibly that both made they're respected HBO debuts within months of one another.....Albeit Pac as a 2 week last minute substitute and fill in for...cough...Enrique Sanchez?

You guys really need to let go of it...Marquez is an equal to Pacquiao,both are supreme fighters with different respected styles and skillsets........and last I checked Manny is set to fight Ricky Hatton,Good luck with that!

You are misconstruing my statements about Marquez's popularity to a that of his ability.

Do a little goggle search and look at the career of Marquez. It tanked, twice. By himself he doesn't have the appeal. Marquez is a great fighter and I'm one of the first to say he proved that when he beat Diaz.

I'LL BE LOUD AND CLEAR. MARQUEZ IS NOT OVERRATED BY THE BOXING COMMUNITY, HE DESERVES HIS P4P #2 RATING.

Aware that all this does is bump the thread but I'm really not misconstruing 'If Pacquiao did not exist,Marquez would be another boxer that got ignored' at all.I just disagree with the inference that Pacquiao is soley responsible for Marquez being known and greatly acknowledged in the boxing world as a major player.He needs no coat tails to cling too.Both Marquez and Pacquiao are very worthy Champions.That we can agree on.

Goggle away friend.It may tell you the numbers and statistics but I'll stick to goggling the tapes and messy notebooks on the shelves in my den .Anyone believing that the "L"s next to the Norwood and John fights are clear definative cases of "tanking" in a career is off the mark.

[fan johnny]

And exactly what would constitute being ignored ??You mean being ranked within the top 6 by The Ring by his 17th professional fight.....and within the top ten consistently for the last 13 + years......Or possibly that both made they're respected HBO debuts within months of one another.....Albeit Pac as a 2 week last minute substitute and fill in for...cough...Enrique Sanchez?

You guys really need to let go of it...Marquez is an equal to Pacquiao,both are supreme fighters with different respected styles and skillsets........and last I checked Manny is set to fight Ricky Hatton,Good luck with that!

You are misconstruing my statements about Marquez's popularity to a that of his ability.

Do a little goggle search and look at the career of Marquez. It tanked, twice. By himself he doesn't have the appeal. Marquez is a great fighter and I'm one of the first to say he proved that when he beat Diaz.

I'LL BE LOUD AND CLEAR. MARQUEZ IS NOT OVERRATED BY THE BOXING COMMUNITY, HE DESERVES HIS P4P #2 RATING.

Aware that all this does is bump the thread but I'm really not misconstruing 'If Pacquiao did not exist,Marquez would be another boxer that got ignored' at all.I just disagree with the inference that Pacquiao is soley responsible for Marquez being known and greatly acknowledged in the boxing world as a major player.He needs no coat tails to cling too.Both Marquez and Pacquiao are very worthy Champions.That we can agree on.

Goggle away friend.It may tell you the numbers and statistics but I'll stick to goggling the tapes and messy notebooks on the shelves in my den .Anyone believing that the "L"s next to the Norwood and John fights are clear definative cases of "tanking" in a career is off the mark.

I agree the thread is inappropriate for this debate and Your point is well taken that Pacquiao is not solely responsible for Marquez's popularity. I did not specifically intend to imply that he is. I was attempting to continue the tone set by Andre. Marquez earned and deserves the respect and gets it for being the fighter that he is.

Your arguments however is premise Marquez's ability as a fighter for which I have no dispute. You asked for clarification on what I meant and continue to draw conclusions that its about his ability rather than his popularity. Translate popularity into prize money earned if it makes it easier for you. My comments are not reflective of Marquez's W's & L's and I suggested to look them up for yourself. Marquez had to literally fight his way back into a boxing career. His earnings are dismal compared to the mega earnings of Pacquiao during the exact same time period.

Just so no mistake, this is not a response about Marquez being overrated because he is clearly not overrated.

[Pravus]

Why is it you Pacquiao fans are so damn intimidated with Marquez being ranked right up there with your man? Is the controversy surrounding their two fights that heavy on your mind? I suppose they should be, because in many people's eyes Marquez won those fights. The fact remains: JMM is one man Pacman couldn't 'destroy' no matter how hard he tried. It is also amusing as hell how you tone down Marquez vs Barerra and Marquez vs Casa by adding 'old' to their names while trying to push Pacman's win over DLH as if DLH walked into the ring in his prime. Gimme a break. Makes me doubt if you saw any of those fights. No man who ever stepped into the ring with MAB walked away thinking he fought an old man.

Personally, I love watching Pacquiao fight and think he's the shit. I also have been watching JMM fight for a decade now and have seen him prove time and time again why he's so highly ranked and consistently so. Both men are top pound for pound fighters and a fight between the two could easily go either way. Pacman tends to dominate the early rounds while Marquez dominates the mid-later rounds - a fight fan couldn't ask for a more exciting matchup. I'm just waiting on the rubbermatch....

Keep in mind: By trying to debunk Pacquiao's peers soley to put your man on a pedestal, you put your knowledge of the sport into question.

[CutMeMick]

For the record I respect Pac @ P4P#1.
However I don't respect commets like JMM is over rated.

[MIKAY]

Asrock PENRYN 1600 SLI-110DB

[killersheep]

Asrock PENRYN 1600 SLI-110DB

That is also overrated, overclocking is risky with it.