Klitschko to either fight Chagaev on 6/20 or Haye on 7/11

[OumaFan]

I know on here but the outside world? I don't know. I'm sure it has in Europe, not so much in Britain where he was already big, but in Germany, etc. Definitely hasn't in the US, nobody knows who he is outside of hard core fans. I have no idea about Canada.

But still does that translate into big money fights with anybody but the Klits?

[OumaFan]

Why would would he have worked so hard to get the fight if he was "shit scared"

Nobody's quite explained that to me yet

Who said he worked out hard? Is there proof Sure he could be in great SHAPE but hell Jack Lalane has always been in great shape but he was never going to beat up a pro boxer.


And OumaFan I am 10000000% in favor of Haye fighting Wladimir "At some point" but beating Monte Barrett and being able to be annoying and talk shit shouldn't earn you a title shot and I think if I took the name David Haye out of the equation NOBODY would want to watch that fight and NOBODY would think that "Fighter X" would deserve a shot at the titles. I just want David Haye to work his way to the top...if he doesn't want to wait or to have a bunch of fights then he should step in vs a top level fighter and beat them in impressive fashion and THEN call for Wladimir...but to beat Monte Barrett by KO and then call Wlad out right away is ridiculous! Haye is either crazy or delusional and either way he would get humiliated vs Wladimir.

You misunderstood me, I'm not talking about working hard as in getting shape, I'm talking about working hard as in working hard to get the fight in the first place. He knew what he was getting into, he was the one that wanted the fight.

I personally don't have a problem with the true cruiserweight champ getting a shot at a title pretty quickly.

[CFH]

I know on here but the outside world? I don't know. I'm sure it has in Europe, not so much in Britain where he was already big, but in Germany, etc. Definitely hasn't in the US, nobody knows who he is outside of hard core fans. I have no idea about Canada.

But still does that translate into big money fights with anybody but the Klits?

Well, I can't really speak about the U.S., but Haye has been a topic of conversation on In This Corner With Russ Anber, Canada's only major boxing show. To further my point, I had no idea who David Haye was until a year or so ago.

I think it certainly translates to big money fights against any recognized and moderately popular heavy-weight champ. In boxing, popularity and notoriety often seem to be more important than actual skill and hard work. Look at Margarito, no one had a clue who he was until he started chasing Mayweather around, much like Haye did Klitschko. Mayweather refused to face him (again playing devil's advocate, maybe that's the blueprint Haye was following) and Margarito's popularity soared and as a result he made millions of dollars. Would he have made his money without called out Mayweather the way he did? I seriously doubt it.

[OumaFan]

That's a fair point but would he have come out of the whole thing the same if he appeared (to many fans) as finding a way out of fighting Floyd after the fight had been signed?

I just don't see how this has been good for Haye. Sure he's gotten his name out there but I don't know if in this case all publicity is good publicity. Look I don't really know casual fans but if you take saddoboxing as representative of the boxing community as a whole (which it isn't I know) Haye has come out of this for the majority of people as a loud mouth chicken shit. It just seems to me that going to great lengths to appear to want a fight with Klitschko in order to get your name out there while at the same time hoping that he really doesn't take it, and if he does take it then to fake your way out of it seems a bit of a risky plan.

And I'm still not convinced this will help his earnings that much. Say he would have never have done this, he could have still drawn crowds in England versus the Kevin Johnsons of the world, just an example. Is he gonna make that much traveling to Germany to fight Alexander Dimitrenko, whoever that is? He can make some money against the various heavyweight plodders but I don't think its huge money and he could have always drawn crowds in England anyway. The only serious money fight I see outside of the Klits is maybe if HBO thought it would be a big deal to get him to come to America and fight Arreola. Otherwise he needs the Klits for a big purse.

[OumaFan]

And if HBO wanted him to come to fight Arreola his notoriety from this could have helped that along.

I don't totally disagree.

I just don't see this as some master plan.

[Mar]

I don't get all the panic forget all these other guys make wlad wait for haye. Seem like wlad can't find another opponet soon enough, a little cold feet maybe.

[OumaFan]

Wlad with cold feet, I suspect Lyle is in the process of angrily replying as we speak

[CFH]

That's a fair point but would he have come out of the whole thing the same if he appeared (to many fans) as finding a way out of fighting Floyd after the fight had been signed?

I just don't see how this has been good for Haye. Sure he's gotten his name out there but I don't know if in this case all publicity is good publicity. Look I don't really know casual fans but if you take saddoboxing as representative of the boxing community as a whole (which it isn't I know) Haye has come out of this for the majority of people as a loud mouth chicken shit. It just seems to me that going to great lengths to appear to want a fight with Klitschko in order to get your name out there while at the same time hoping that he really doesn't take it, and if he does take it then to fake your way out of it seems a bit of a risky plan.

And I'm still not convinced this will help his earnings that much. Say he would have never have done this, he could have still drawn crowds in England versus the Kevin Johnsons of the world, just an example. Is he gonna make that much traveling to Germany to fight Alexander Dimitrenko, whoever that is? He can make some money against the various heavyweight plodders but I don't think its huge money and he could have always drawn crowds in England anyway. The only serious money fight I see outside of the Klits is maybe if HBO thought it would be a big deal to get him to come to America and fight Arreola. Otherwise he needs the Klits for a big purse.

I don't think it looks like an illegitimate excuse at all and i doubt more than a small, albeit vocal, minority of the forum does either. I think much of the displeasure expressed towards Haye is a result of the fact the people finally had a heavy-weight fight to get excited about. After people cool down a bit I think an overwhelming majority will feel that the injury is legitimate, especially considering how hard Haye chased the fight.

Sure Haye could've made some coin fighting stiffs and contenders in front of 5,000 - 10,000 people in England, but that's nothing compared to the money to be gained through international exposure (TV deals, larger audiences, increased exposure, a higher level of competition etc).

It's not just about money either. Most athletes who make it to the top of their sport want recognition as well. The only way Haye was going to get that recognition as an international heavy-weight champ/contender was by chasing Klitschko. Now, whether or not get actually has to fight Klitschko to garner that attention remains to be seen I guess, but nobody outside of his family was calling him the saviour of the heavy-weight division until he started chasing Klitschko. Regardless of the fight itsellf he now has a much higher level of recognition than he did only a year ago.

[CFH]

And if HBO wanted him to come to fight Arreola his notoriety from this could have helped that along.

I don't totally disagree.

I just don't see this as some master plan.

Neither do I. I think he's actually hurt. I just wanted to play devil's advocate and try and present a logical reason why some people might claim he's ducking out of the fight.

[El Kabong]

I don't get all the panic forget all these other guys make wlad wait for haye. Seem like wlad can't find another opponet soon enough, a little cold feet maybe.

Oh yes I am certain Wlad is scared of Haye which is why David Haye is the one that is "injured"....notice it's a very vague "back injury", something you can't look at and see anything wrong. If he broke his hand he could wear a cast, there would be x-rays and MRI's and what not....with a back unless it's a problem with his spine then it's a muscle pull and unless he tried to lift a Truck over his head there's no reason it should take 3 weeks to be in fighting shape.

REGARDLESS of what happened or happens to Haye, Wlad will fight June 20th and win by KO

[OumaFan]

As I've said I don't see it as as big a difference as you (who's he gonna make big money against, I just don't see it outside of the Klits and Arreola, I could well be underestimating the drawing power of certain heavy's in Germany) but I don't totally disagree.

I guess where I would disagree is if someone said he only chased Wlad for the notoriety and didn't expect to get the fight or didn't want the fight. But you don't seem to be arguing that and my point all along was that I don't think he was scared which some people are arguing but you don't seem to be arguing that either. So its just a matter of degree. I have always had a hard time of grasping the casual fan as none of my family likes boxing and only a few friends watch it ever and they don't know anything about the sport.

Edit-clearly after that last post you aren't arguing that.

[El Kabong]

David Haye is in the same group as Solis and Povetkin....talented guys, but they just aren't ready for the big time.

Am I alone in thinking that MAYBE David Haye would have had problems with Wladimir just from a talent standpoint...the heavyweights Haye has fought aren't even in the same league and Wlad and hell even the cruiserweights Haye fought weren't all that great in talent....to step up from Monte Barrett DIRECTLY to Wladimir Klitschko and to think there wouldn't be an issue due to the quality of the talent is just fucking dumb.

It's like saying some dude is hitting .700 in High School baseball and he's ready to face the best pitcher in the MLB!

[benevolent anarchist]

David Haye: "I'm sorry to disappoint all my fans"

David Haye commented, "I'm sorry to disappoint all my fans across the world and I hope that once I have had the sufficient treatment, I will be able to start training again and we can get the fight on as soon as possible. I know this is the fight the fans want and I will do everything to make sure it happens."

"We are disappointed that David will be unable to fight for the World Heavyweight Championship on June 20th, but we want to make sure that he is in top condition when he fights Wladimir," said Richard Schaefer, CEO of Golden Boy Promotions. "We hope David makes a fast recovery and we can reschedule the fight as soon as possible."

Hope, damn right with the $$$ that are at stake here. I know that recovering from injury is not an exact science, but saying that he "hopes" to be ready is asking a lot with the millions that are on the line here. Haye's camp should grant Finkel full access to Hayes medical doctor and medical records before considering a postponement. JMO

[Rantcatrat]

Not to change the subject, but am I alone in thinking Chagaev isn't a bad stand-in opponent assuming the hep B can be contained? He is a top 5 heavyweight and the only fighter to beat Valuev. He is too small to beat Klitschko. Moreover, if he loses, the heavyweight picture is cleared up a little. Yes?

[El Kabong]

Sure Rantacrat, exactly my point, Chagaev is a PROVEN commodity in the WBA part of the heavyweight division. We can say he's "too small" but he beat Valuev who is a lot bigger than Wlad, maybe 4 inches taller and at least 60 pounds heavier.