Can one really be ranked P4P when you demand catch weights?

[Spicoli]

catchweights have nothing to do with p4p rankings.

I have no problem with fighters that agree with each other fighting at whatever weight. As brought up before my only problem is the title that's on the line.

Have always thought the p4p a media frenzy...a tag line for quick consumption that is extremely subjective.A dominate and defending fighter meeting his biggest challenges in a given division is what we need. Shite....people focus on a catch weight prior to a bout but how about the actual "unofficial' weight of each fighter once the bell rings.A catch weight too and fro.

Why does it really matter what weight the fight is at, what belt is on the line, what division (or not) that the fight is being held?

What's important is that the best fight each other.

If Manny were to fight Floyd, Shane or Miguel at a catch weight I don't care less. All I care about is that they fight at the best weight that will give us the best fight!

If Manny is too small at 147 let them fight at 143, I don't care if he's fighting for a world title really, it doesn't make the fight any less important, or more importantly entertaining, and that ultimately is all I care about.

Thats where I differ on exactly what the best fight possible is exactly.I think we are getting way to caught up in the rush and the almost manufacturing of 'the best fighting the best' boosted by the mythical p4p throne.History is littered with guys meeting outside of their 'natural' weight classes but as of late it is overdone and almost has a circus type of feel.The haggling and splitting hairs over the current catch weight BS.If it is that much of a parlor game and problem for camps/fighters to agree....it may just be an indicator that some proposed fights are not meant to be....or simply that the warranted concerns are not worth it to some fighters.I'm a firm believer in guys taking care of the legitimate threats within a respected weight range in division first and foremost.Years later if you want to be called the best middleweight etc.....you had better of contested with the best to be found in the era prior to division leaping for mega-ultra-super-dooper name attractions.

I'll take the bait as coincidentally the name missing from Mannys proposed threats you mentioned is that of the man who has given him his toughest scraps and his most heated rival recently...Marquez.I might be in the minority...but that is the fight that needs to happen if its close competitive fan friendly and entertaining matches that I'm looking for.Far more than a Oscar/Pacquioa fight and I believe far more than a Marquez/Mayweather fight.

[JonesJrMayweather]

Just wondering, because they have manny number one, but most of the time the fighters that have been ranked number 1 have gone to other's divisions and beaten them. RJJ, PERNELL, FLOYD, SHANE. Not once did either of them demand a catch weight.

Plus have any of those other p4p guys ever gone up in weight as much as pac?



I didnt think so.

Weight or weight class? Because Jones went from JMW to HW..that's plus 40 pounds..

Manny went from 106 to 145 that's 39lbs

[Taeth]

Just wondering, because they have manny number one, but most of the time the fighters that have been ranked number 1 have gone to other's divisions and beaten them. RJJ, PERNELL, FLOYD, SHANE. Not once did either of them demand a catch weight.

Two things
1) Floyd, RJJ, Pernell, and Shane never went up as many weightclasses as Manny has, and to this point Manny hasn't foughten anyone at a catch weight.

[generalbulldog]

Just wondering, because they have manny number one, but most of the time the fighters that have been ranked number 1 have gone to other's divisions and beaten them. RJJ, PERNELL, FLOYD, SHANE. Not once did either of them demand a catch weight.

I forgot to answer this directly towards you. Sugar Ray Leonard VS. Lalonde for the LHW championship at 168 and considering Sugar Ray was the #1 p4p. Julio Cesar Chavez VS. Pernell Whtaker at 145 for his Welterweight title and JCC was the #1 p4p. Oscar De La Hoya VS. Bernard Hopkins at 158 for the MW titles, even though Oscar at that time was not the #1 p4p but he was in the late 90s.

And no one was complaining about catch weights with Hopkins-DLH, Hopkins-Wright, Hopkins-Pavlik, JCC-Whitaker, Floyd-Marquez, Leonard-Lalonde, Oscar-Pacman (And 99.99% of the people out there predicted DLH by KO).

[Jody Lane]

Just wondering, because they have manny number one, but most of the time the fighters that have been ranked number 1 have gone to other's divisions and beaten them. RJJ, PERNELL, FLOYD, SHANE. Not once did either of them demand a catch weight.

Hey these guys don't have to fight Pac. If they want to stay at the weight that is comfortable for them, let them fight someone else. No one is holding a gun to their heads.

[Kev]

Just wondering, because they have manny number one, but most of the time the fighters that have been ranked number 1 have gone to other's divisions and beaten them. RJJ, PERNELL, FLOYD, SHANE. Not once did either of them demand a catch weight.

Hey these guys don't have to fight Pac. If they want to stay at the weight that is comfortable for them, let them fight someone else. No one is holding a gun to their heads.

What I find incredible about this is that less than two years ago if anyone speculated that Manny could move up to knockout Oscar De La Hoya, destroy Ricky Hatton and then go and fight Miguel Cotto everyone would say that person was FUCKING INSANE!!!!

Yet now these same people are now moaning because Manny doesn't want to move up to 147 lbs to face Cotto and instead wants the fight at 143-144

Let me ask people this, if Bernard Hopkins chose to fight David Haye at an agreed weight limit of 210lbs would people be moaning that BHop was a coward in forcing Haye to shed pounds? (actually some probably would ) but if they did they would be fucking idiots.

Haye vs Hopkins at 210-215 lbs would be a great matchup and a tremendous fight we'd all love to see, at heavyweight it simply couldn't happen as Hopkins would be giving up too much but if a catchweight allows for a potentially great fight to happen that otherwise wouldn't then let's use the flexibility of catchweights.

It's just about making weight issues work FOR us and not AGAINST us.

It's an interesting universal human trait for mankind to create traditions, rituals, beaurocracies and rules to help mankind and then for us to lose sight of why they were created in the first place and elevate the particular ritual, law, tradition, rule etc above the reason it was enacted in the first place.

Jesus was full of condemnation for the blindness of the Pharisees who did this, and we all see it in religion, people totally devoted to ritual and religious practice but completely missing the true meaning of why they are carrying these out in the first place. The rituals and rites become that persons true God.

That's what these opposing a catchweight are doing, using the weight divisions, which were created to help make fights between people of different weights, now to actually be a reason for stopping a fight taking place, its lunacy.

[The Congressman]

This thread is deliberately made for Pac. So it belongs in Pac forum.

[CFH]

This thread is deliberately made for Pac. So it belongs in Pac forum.

I'm fine with it being where it currently is. As it has not been moved, I assume the other Mods are as well.

[AdamGB]

This thread is deliberately made for Pac. So it belongs in Pac forum.

You belong in the pac forum...