David Haye another Amir Con? Manufactured "champ?"

[El Kabong]

First off, the guy has done just a tiny bit better than I thought he would do. He's never going to be as good as he proclaims he will be, he's not coming close to acheiving what Holyfield did, inspite of whatever poor state the division is in and the even poorer state the WBA portion of the division is in.

Secondly and most importantly, anyone fighting for the WBA title and in their "little league" (because none of the top 10 WBA contenders fight in the "real division") I have serious doubts about.

I have 0 worries about a fight vs Wladimir. Wlad is too much on his game right now and won't lose for a loooong time. Vitali may be on the edge, he certainly isn't as sharp as he used to be, I would be happy if the Sosnowski fight was his last

[Lance Uppercut]

David Haye in my opinion is another Amir Khan or should I say Con?

Just like Con boy he picks up an alphabet strap by fighting the worst champion in the division in Con boy's case it was Kotelnik, in Haye's case Valuev. Valuev retained his belt via controversial decision against Holyfield and Kotelnik via controversial decision against Maidana. Just like Con boy he is also the holder of the WBA belt. Arguably the worst major organization out there with super champions and interim champions. And he also defended his strap against a weak mandatory, in Con boy's case Salita and Haye's case Ruiz (now all of a sudden people are acting like Ruiz was elite.)

Haye and Con boy also ducked the real champ of the division and the elite contenders. Con boy ducks Maidana, an somewhat elite contender with dangerous power, and Tim Bradley considered by many to be the man of the 140 pounders. Haye ducks an elite contender in Vitali (with the WBC strap) and punked out against the champ/man of the HW division, Wladimir.

Haye just like con boy gets hyped up, so called savior of the HW division and will supposedly beat the Klit Bros easily.

Both Con boy and Haye are what boxing fans like me would like to called manufactured "champs." And please stop calling Haye the HW champ, he's not, that's like calling Con boy 140 pound champ, he's not. Last I checked Wladimir is still the man at HW and Bradley is the man at 140. Having a trinket don't mean shit in today's boxing.

What I just typed out is the truth. Ain't no exaggerating anything.

Your timing with this topic just come off as sour grapes for me.
Haye wins a fight and now you feel the need to start a little Haye hating eh?

Champs, manufactured or not are still champs. If it was so easy then everyone would do it now wouldn't they? Ah right, but they can't.

I agree. Your analysis is pretty good, but to point this out after the most impressive win of his career.

[El Kabong]

So beating up a 38 year old John Ruiz who hadn't been performing at HIS top level for quite some time qualifies as this dudes biggest win?


LAME!

And you think since this dude beat Valuev and Ruiz he's a true champ and not protected at all? And that he has any chance at beating Wladimir? That's funny, considering who in the recent past and in Ruiz's prime gave him very difficult fights. Andrew Golota anyone?

[X]

Haye had a very good amateur pedigree, as a pro he is actually quite a big guy now and grown into the heavyweights nicely, In any other era, he would be regarded as a big heavy.

I think he has slick boxing skills, bags of self confidence and he can punch.

On the negative, I think he is fragile ...... so he makes for an interesting fight every time.

Not sure about him being manufactured ...... some people seem to forget how Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson rose to the top so quickly - huge hype, connected handlers, carefully picked early opponents.

I would say that haye has a chance against Wlad. Wlad is a bit chinny himself and whover lands first wins, though I think Wlad's height, reach and technique would make him the favourite to win.

Assuming that Vitali doesnt get old overnight, I think he's just too big and durable for Haye.

[Zilla]

David Haye in my opinion is another Amir Khan or should I say Con?

Just like Con boy he picks up an alphabet strap by fighting the worst champion in the division in Con boy's case it was Kotelnik, in Haye's case Valuev. Valuev retained his belt via controversial decision against Holyfield and Kotelnik via controversial decision against Maidana. Just like Con boy he is also the holder of the WBA belt. Arguably the worst major organization out there with super champions and interim champions. And he also defended his strap against a weak mandatory, in Con boy's case Salita and Haye's case Ruiz (now all of a sudden people are acting like Ruiz was elite.)

Haye and Con boy also ducked the real champ of the division and the elite contenders. Con boy ducks Maidana, an somewhat elite contender with dangerous power, and Tim Bradley considered by many to be the man of the 140 pounders. Haye ducks an elite contender in Vitali (with the WBC strap) and punked out against the champ/man of the HW division, Wladimir.

Haye just like con boy gets hyped up, so called savior of the HW division and will supposedly beat the Klit Bros easily.

Both Con boy and Haye are what boxing fans like me would like to called manufactured "champs." And please stop calling Haye the HW champ, he's not, that's like calling Con boy 140 pound champ, he's not. Last I checked Wladimir is still the man at HW and Bradley is the man at 140. Having a trinket don't mean shit in today's boxing.

What I just typed out is the truth. Ain't no exaggerating anything.

Your timing with this topic just come off as sour grapes for me.
Haye wins a fight and now you feel the need to start a little Haye hating eh?

Champs, manufactured or not are still champs. If it was so easy then everyone would do it now wouldn't they? Ah right, but they can't.

I disagree. I beat up Valuev last week. Had him crying and everything.

[ono]

David Haye in my opinion is another Amir Khan or should I say Con?

Just like Con boy he picks up an alphabet strap by fighting the worst champion in the division in Con boy's case it was Kotelnik, in Haye's case Valuev. Valuev retained his belt via controversial decision against Holyfield and Kotelnik via controversial decision against Maidana. Just like Con boy he is also the holder of the WBA belt. Arguably the worst major organization out there with super champions and interim champions. And he also defended his strap against a weak mandatory, in Con boy's case Salita and Haye's case Ruiz (now all of a sudden people are acting like Ruiz was elite.)

Haye and Con boy also ducked the real champ of the division and the elite contenders. Con boy ducks Maidana, an somewhat elite contender with dangerous power, and Tim Bradley considered by many to be the man of the 140 pounders. Haye ducks an elite contender in Vitali (with the WBC strap) and punked out against the champ/man of the HW division, Wladimir.

Haye just like con boy gets hyped up, so called savior of the HW division and will supposedly beat the Klit Bros easily.

Both Con boy and Haye are what boxing fans like me would like to called manufactured "champs." And please stop calling Haye the HW champ, he's not, that's like calling Con boy 140 pound champ, he's not. Last I checked Wladimir is still the man at HW and Bradley is the man at 140. Having a trinket don't mean shit in today's boxing.

What I just typed out is the truth. Ain't no exaggerating anything.

What a shit thread.

He had stellar early opposition and by his 15th fight he had ko'd the European Champion inside 1 minute. He also has a solid win over Fragomeni before going to Paris to ko Mormeck. He then destroyed Enzo Mac's career before his 3 wins at Heavyweight.

Whilst he isn't the 'man' at Heavyweight, he's certainly no more manufactured than 95% of the fighters out there.

Even the Khan dig is pathetic. He's a young fighter, constantly improving and constantly upping his level of opposition. Again, he isn't the man at 140, but then again nobody is. Why would he take the Maidana fight when he can make much more money fighting stylistically easier fights? If Maidana is as good as you think he is, surely he'll still be around when Khan's gains more exposure. In that case, the fight will make much more money. Khan's not an idiot, he isn't going to blow his load for little reward right now, when he can chalk up the dough, increase his popularity and take the fight when the guys outside of a Boxing forum know who Maidana is...if that time ever comes.

You're living in a dream world if you think any young champion will risk his career to take on a high risk, low reward fight, especially when he's already been ko'd in a similar scenario.

[generalbulldog]

David Haye in my opinion is another Amir Khan or should I say Con?

Just like Con boy he picks up an alphabet strap by fighting the worst champion in the division in Con boy's case it was Kotelnik, in Haye's case Valuev. Valuev retained his belt via controversial decision against Holyfield and Kotelnik via controversial decision against Maidana. Just like Con boy he is also the holder of the WBA belt. Arguably the worst major organization out there with super champions and interim champions. And he also defended his strap against a weak mandatory, in Con boy's case Salita and Haye's case Ruiz (now all of a sudden people are acting like Ruiz was elite.)

Haye and Con boy also ducked the real champ of the division and the elite contenders. Con boy ducks Maidana, an somewhat elite contender with dangerous power, and Tim Bradley considered by many to be the man of the 140 pounders. Haye ducks an elite contender in Vitali (with the WBC strap) and punked out against the champ/man of the HW division, Wladimir.

Haye just like con boy gets hyped up, so called savior of the HW division and will supposedly beat the Klit Bros easily.

Both Con boy and Haye are what boxing fans like me would like to called manufactured "champs." And please stop calling Haye the HW champ, he's not, that's like calling Con boy 140 pound champ, he's not. Last I checked Wladimir is still the man at HW and Bradley is the man at 140. Having a trinket don't mean shit in today's boxing.

What I just typed out is the truth. Ain't no exaggerating anything.

What a shit thread.

He had stellar early opposition and by his 15th fight he had ko'd the European Champion inside 1 minute. He also has a solid win over Fragomeni before going to Paris to ko Mormeck. He then destroyed Enzo Mac's career before his 3 wins at Heavyweight.

Whilst he isn't the 'man' at Heavyweight, he's certainly no more manufactured than 95% of the fighters out there.

Even the Khan dig is pathetic. He's a young fighter, constantly improving and constantly upping his level of opposition. Again, he isn't the man at 140, but then again nobody is. Why would he take the Maidana fight when he can make much more money fighting stylistically easier fights? If Maidana is as good as you think he is, surely he'll still be around when Khan's gains more exposure. In that case, the fight will make much more money. Khan's not an idiot, he isn't going to blow his load for little reward right now, when he can chalk up the dough, increase his popularity and take the fight when the guys outside of a Boxing forum know who Maidana is...if that time ever comes.

You're living in a dream world if you think any young champion will risk his career to take on a high risk, low reward fight, especially when he's already been ko'd in a similar scenario.

Then that to me right there says he's nothing more than a manufactured champ. we've been through this before and your excuse is "he's only 23!" That's right go call out a shot Erik Morales to fight or maybe he can fight a 1 eye past his prime Barerra again. He wanted to fight Marquez because he saw a diminishing fighter, probably thought he was shot and wanted him.

And about Haye, Heavyweight people. I don't care and most of the boxing world doesn't care about his crusierweight record. Back in the day no one gave a damn about Holyfield's crusierweight record, they only care what he will do at HW.

I mean doesn't Haye's fans always compare Haye to Holyfield most of the time based on the cruiserweight connection? Same standard should be applied here, if it did to people judging Holyfield.

[ono]

David Haye in my opinion is another Amir Khan or should I say Con?

Just like Con boy he picks up an alphabet strap by fighting the worst champion in the division in Con boy's case it was Kotelnik, in Haye's case Valuev. Valuev retained his belt via controversial decision against Holyfield and Kotelnik via controversial decision against Maidana. Just like Con boy he is also the holder of the WBA belt. Arguably the worst major organization out there with super champions and interim champions. And he also defended his strap against a weak mandatory, in Con boy's case Salita and Haye's case Ruiz (now all of a sudden people are acting like Ruiz was elite.)

Haye and Con boy also ducked the real champ of the division and the elite contenders. Con boy ducks Maidana, an somewhat elite contender with dangerous power, and Tim Bradley considered by many to be the man of the 140 pounders. Haye ducks an elite contender in Vitali (with the WBC strap) and punked out against the champ/man of the HW division, Wladimir.

Haye just like con boy gets hyped up, so called savior of the HW division and will supposedly beat the Klit Bros easily.

Both Con boy and Haye are what boxing fans like me would like to called manufactured "champs." And please stop calling Haye the HW champ, he's not, that's like calling Con boy 140 pound champ, he's not. Last I checked Wladimir is still the man at HW and Bradley is the man at 140. Having a trinket don't mean shit in today's boxing.

What I just typed out is the truth. Ain't no exaggerating anything.

What a shit thread.

He had stellar early opposition and by his 15th fight he had ko'd the European Champion inside 1 minute. He also has a solid win over Fragomeni before going to Paris to ko Mormeck. He then destroyed Enzo Mac's career before his 3 wins at Heavyweight.

Whilst he isn't the 'man' at Heavyweight, he's certainly no more manufactured than 95% of the fighters out there.

Even the Khan dig is pathetic. He's a young fighter, constantly improving and constantly upping his level of opposition. Again, he isn't the man at 140, but then again nobody is. Why would he take the Maidana fight when he can make much more money fighting stylistically easier fights? If Maidana is as good as you think he is, surely he'll still be around when Khan's gains more exposure. In that case, the fight will make much more money. Khan's not an idiot, he isn't going to blow his load for little reward right now, when he can chalk up the dough, increase his popularity and take the fight when the guys outside of a Boxing forum know who Maidana is...if that time ever comes.

You're living in a dream world if you think any young champion will risk his career to take on a high risk, low reward fight, especially when he's already been ko'd in a similar scenario.

Then that to me right there says he's nothing more than a manufactured champ. we've been through this before and your excuse is "he's only 23!" That's right go call out a shot Erik Morales to fight or maybe he can fight a 1 eye past his prime Barerra again. He wanted to fight Marquez because he saw a diminishing fighter, probably thought he was shot and wanted him.

And about Haye, Heavyweight people. I don't care and most of the boxing world doesn't care about his crusierweight record. Back in the day no one gave a damn about Holyfield's crusierweight record, they only care what he will do at HW.

I mean doesn't Haye's fans always compare Haye to Holyfield most of the time based on the cruiserweight connection? Same standard should be applied here, if it did to people judging Holyfield.

But his age has to have relevence. You can't take it out of the equation no matter how much you want to. As it stands, a resume of a past his prime Barrera, Kotelnik, Salita and Malignaggi is just as good as any other supposedly top level fighter of a similar age.

For the record it was Roach who wanted the Morales fight and it's purely down to the fact that he's only been with Khan for a short while. He still has difficiences to iron out. Even if you disagree with it, he didn't take the fight anyway so it's hardly something you should hold against him. Can't quite believe the whinge about him fighting Marquez. An opponent considered good enough for Floyd Mayweather just a few months ago. An opponent who knocked out two of the best fighters at 135. Baffling.

Like i said, the vast majority of 'world' champions have been carefully managed until they reach world level. That's a promoters job.

Don't quite understand why you'd expect people to ignore his record at Crusier. Don't see many Haye fans at all comparing him to Holyfield. Holyfield's Heavyweight record gained more importance because the pool of talent was greater at Heavyweight. Wlad and Vitali aside, the Heavies are quite embarrassing, so not sure where you're going with that one.

[Althugz]

David Haye in my opinion is another Amir Khan or should I say Con?

Just like Con boy he picks up an alphabet strap by fighting the worst champion in the division in Con boy's case it was Kotelnik, in Haye's case Valuev. Valuev retained his belt via controversial decision against Holyfield and Kotelnik via controversial decision against Maidana. Just like Con boy he is also the holder of the WBA belt. Arguably the worst major organization out there with super champions and interim champions. And he also defended his strap against a weak mandatory, in Con boy's case Salita and Haye's case Ruiz (now all of a sudden people are acting like Ruiz was elite.)

Haye and Con boy also ducked the real champ of the division and the elite contenders. Con boy ducks Maidana, an somewhat elite contender with dangerous power, and Tim Bradley considered by many to be the man of the 140 pounders. Haye ducks an elite contender in Vitali (with the WBC strap) and punked out against the champ/man of the HW division, Wladimir.

Haye just like con boy gets hyped up, so called savior of the HW division and will supposedly beat the Klit Bros easily.

Both Con boy and Haye are what boxing fans like me would like to called manufactured "champs." And please stop calling Haye the HW champ, he's not, that's like calling Con boy 140 pound champ, he's not. Last I checked Wladimir is still the man at HW and Bradley is the man at 140. Having a trinket don't mean shit in today's boxing.

What I just typed out is the truth. Ain't no exaggerating anything.

Man that is a little unfair.

I havn't read the rest of the thread so I do apologise if people have already mentioned this but Haye is better than Con in so many ways.

Firstly, to be manufactured, surely you have to have things your way all the time. Haye has been in to other peoples back yards and taken the Cruiser and now the World heavyweight title. Con boy has done nothing of the sort.

Haye's opposition has been so much better too. Fragomeni, Mormeck, Macarenelli (yeah I know he sucks balls but he was the other guy at cruiser at the time), Valuev and no doubt in my mind he wants the Klitschko's at some point.

He's fought quality opponents for being a British fighter...how many other Brits at 23 fights can say they've had some of those quality names and fights on their CV?

Hardly any - Haye has not been manufactured. Hatton/Calzaghe/Con/Eubank/Benn were manufactured...Haye has taken a riskier and faster route than all of them.

Now he's "a" world heavyweight champion after only a few fights when a lot of people said he wouldn't be able to handle it in there (myself included) yet he has given jelly legs to a guy who has barely been wobbled and stopped a guy who has only been put away once in his career. Not bad.

I was definitely a Haye-ter a few fights ago...I thought he had a big mouth without backing it up but you have to give credit where it's due. I'll give him full respect if the fights with the Klits end up happening..win or lose.

But comparing him to Con?? No way...2 different kettles of fish

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

David Haye in my opinion is another Amir Khan or should I say Con?

Just like Con boy he picks up an alphabet strap by fighting the worst champion in the division in Con boy's case it was Kotelnik, in Haye's case Valuev. Valuev retained his belt via controversial decision against Holyfield and Kotelnik via controversial decision against Maidana. Just like Con boy he is also the holder of the WBA belt. Arguably the worst major organization out there with super champions and interim champions. And he also defended his strap against a weak mandatory, in Con boy's case Salita and Haye's case Ruiz (now all of a sudden people are acting like Ruiz was elite.)

Haye and Con boy also ducked the real champ of the division and the elite contenders. Con boy ducks Maidana, an somewhat elite contender with dangerous power, and Tim Bradley considered by many to be the man of the 140 pounders. Haye ducks an elite contender in Vitali (with the WBC strap) and punked out against the champ/man of the HW division, Wladimir.

Haye just like con boy gets hyped up, so called savior of the HW division and will supposedly beat the Klit Bros easily.

Both Con boy and Haye are what boxing fans like me would like to called manufactured "champs." And please stop calling Haye the HW champ, he's not, that's like calling Con boy 140 pound champ, he's not. Last I checked Wladimir is still the man at HW and Bradley is the man at 140. Having a trinket don't mean shit in today's boxing.

What I just typed out is the truth. Ain't no exaggerating anything.

Man that is a little unfair.

I havn't read the rest of the thread so I do apologise if people have already mentioned this but Haye is better than Con in so many ways.

Firstly, to be manufactured, surely you have to have things your way all the time. Haye has been in to other peoples back yards and taken the Cruiser and now the World heavyweight title. Con boy has done nothing of the sort.

Haye's opposition has been so much better too. Fragomeni, Mormeck, Macarenelli (yeah I know he sucks balls but he was the other guy at cruiser at the time), Valuev and no doubt in my mind he wants the Klitschko's at some point.

He's fought quality opponents for being a British fighter...how many other Brits at 23 fights can say they've had some of those quality names and fights on their CV?

Hardly any - Haye has not been manufactured. Hatton/Calzaghe/Con/Eubank/Benn were manufactured...Haye has taken a riskier and faster route than all of them.

Now he's "a" world heavyweight champion after only a few fights when a lot of people said he wouldn't be able to handle it in there (myself included) yet he has given jelly legs to a guy who has barely been wobbled and stopped a guy who has only been put away once in his career. Not bad.

I was definitely a Haye-ter a few fights ago...I thought he had a big mouth without backing it up but you have to give credit where it's due. I'll give him full respect if the fights with the Klits end up happening..win or lose.

But comparing him to Con?? No way...2 different kettles of fish

Agreed.

This is a silly thread.... Manufactured = protected... General Bulldog do you even know who Carl Thompson is?

Anyways. As much as I agree that Haye is vulnerable to a few good men. For me, it's a case of 'what's new?'

Haye is and has always been a VERY exciting but chinny banger. As 95% of his fights have proven.

So again, I ask. Whats new? Not alot. Just that your a bunch of Haye hating mugs. Fact.

[FTMatty]

I just hope that Haye will prove all these doubters wrong. I'd love to see him unify the titles.

I hear that Golden Boy want him to fight Hopkins next.

[Mark TKO]

not had time to real all this thread but calling Haye another Khan is a fucking insult.


I would pick Haye to beat any other fighter in top ten heavies at moment - just not the Klitschkos - though he has a chance particularly against Wlad.

[Hornfinger]

Hold on silly buggers.

What was the injury khan had halfway through his training camp for maidana? Oh hang on he never called out Maidana to his face and never signed to fight him. And will he call out maidana after malignaggi? Nope

Can we stop the bullshit nonsence please?