Oliver McCall or Zab Judah...whose lack of discipline has cost them more?

[El Kabong]

I think Zab Judah had actual boxing talent and at times he refused to throw punches, he refused to be active in the ring, and he got cocky plenty of times and it cost him: Tszyu, Spinks (he could have EASILY won that first fight), Baldomir, and hell had he been 100% focused vs Floyd he could have won that fight.

McCall as Manny Steward said "Was just a club fighter"....he had big power, a great chin, but no real SKILL. He got lucky vs Lewis, he probably could have been managed better but that's about it.

[JonesJrMayweather]

ZAB....

If Zab had the right teaching with his talent he easily could have been undefeated on the night that he faced Floyd and would have stood a very serious chance in beating him...

He could have easily beaten KT, Spinks, Baldomir, clottey, cotto...

Judah has no one to blame but himself, he lost due to his lack of focus and for being weak mentally not because he wasn't taught how to use his talent, and i don't think he ever would have EASILY beaten Clottey, Tszyu, or Cotto

"We all hit the bag the same, we all run the same, we all jump rope the same"

That means that the one who can apply those abilities in a manner in which they were taught or disciplined to do will most likely win. His father was a shit trainer, period. With his speed, power, and athleticism he easily could have been undefeated up until the fight with floyd.

[amat]

Judah just never improved as a fighter, he had wholes in his game that were always there and never went away. He would make mistakes someone just turning pro would make; pulling straight back with his right hand low, trying to go for the 'home run' all the time rather then just winning rounds behind his pure boxing ability, not throwing enoug punches etc. This is just because either Zab is a knucklehead who didn't think he had any room to improve or because his dad was his trainer and like the rest of the world, Zab didn't know wtf his dad was sayin 90% of the time. Who knows, Zab can still be a player though his physical abilities have definitely fallen off a notch and that's sad to see. I guess you can only drink so much Patron before you start to wane physically though. Zab is definitely the answer to this question though. I know it sounds absolutely ridiculous but this is the guy who people had called 'Whitaker with power' coming up. I know that was ridiculous then to bestow somebody with that moniker but it is indicative of the raw talent he had. The Carlos Baldomir fight is kind of indicative of Zab though. He had all the momentum in the world, took a Spinks rematch for no money in his home town and beat his ass. He was working Baldomir over like he should have for the first 7 rounds, got hurt because he did one of his lazy mistakes of moving straight back in the path of a right hand and just never recovered. When you're that fast and things aren't going your way, you're not landing clean, you must win off activity. Judah did the inverse and tried to win on the home run.

Something he should have learned from the Rafael Pineda fight, or the first Spinks fight, but he never learned. Guys with a little bit of craftiness to them are always going to trouble Judah even if they don't half of the physical ability. Usually a fighter picks up that craftiness as their career progresses, Judah just never learned.

Still though, PEOPLE'S CHAMP BABY P4P NUMBER 1. JUUUUUUUUUDDDDAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!

[amat]

wrong thread haha

[ono]

The mental aspect of Boxing is just as important as the technical aspect. Zab never had it upstairs, and he never really became anything other than potential. He is what he is.

[amat]

Well yea that's the point of the thread, Judah's lack of discipline cost him more. And to illustrate how much it cost him, he is a 2 weight champion and still pretty much didn't fulfill anything close to what his potential was.

[THE THIRD MAN]

The Zab Judah story is one that has polarised opinion for years on this forum. He won his first 28 fights and was undefeated for 5 years (Witter, Ward, Green, Millett were all victims) then whammo he gets nailed big time and despite his protests he owes Jay Nady a debt of gratitude for saving his life that night.
2004 was the year of mystery, he loses to Spinks and was very lucky to get the decision against Pineda, he then beats Spinks in the rematch in perhaps the best performance of his career, then inexplicably loses to Baldimir! He certainly hasn't ducked anybody, Cotto, Mayweather, Clottey yet has not been able to score a win against a genuine A grade fighter? I really don't know what to make of Zab and what his future holds, Amir Khan perhaps? Hatton down the line? He has one last roll of the dice at 140lb and about 12 months to do something about it, i'm not sure about the discipline factor anymore. This is a guy who had all the talent you could wish for from a fighter, but like a lot of sports sometimes it has a lot to do with what's going on above the shoulders more than anything else.