should mayweather continue to be ranked in the top P4P in 2011?

[IamInuit]

don't see why he should be removed, both Rafa Marquez and Israel Vazquez were ranked in the top 10 when they had the long layoff after their 3rd fight, Mayweather should have the same treatment

There is a HUGE difference between Marquez & Vazquez, versus Floyd. Israel and Rafa are WARRIORS. They have practically destroyed each other. Their layoffs have been not only well-deserved, but health-mandated. Neither Rafa nor Israel go "cherry-picking" their opponents, nor could they give a RAT'S ASS about who's #1 p4p. They're fighters.... who fight whomever is placed in front of them. So should Mayweather get the same treatment?

See my answer a few posts above.

thing is, he's already accomplished more than both Rafa and Izzy, you don't just get judged on your recent performances if not overall accomplishments and how sharp you've looked, Mayweather beating the shit out of (the then lineal Welterweight Champion) Mosley was a lot more impressive than Marquez losing yet again to Vazquez, and apart from Martinez who in the top 3 fights all comers? you know damned well Manny isn't, and unless he gets his way in negotiations the fight doesn't come off (gee who else does that sound like?), so fuck both Pacquiao and Mayweather in my book Sergio Martinez is P4P #1 and that's all that matters, and i've said it once and i'll say it again, he'll beat both easily

You can't rest on past laurels and expect to keep getting considered p4p. If we're gonna do that.... let's not stop at Mayweather. Let's bring back ANY fighter who's still semi-active and has had a great career. Personally, I'd rather dig a little deeper and find fighters who are FULLY active and leave it all out there for the fans. So what if Marquez's and Vazquez's careers don't quite measure up to Floyd's? For that matter... you can make the point that Sergio's doesn't either (measure up to Floyd's). But who the hell cares? I sure don't. As a fan, give me a Sergio, a Rafa, an Israel ANY day... over the prancing, clowning, inactive Floyd. He's already his OWN biggest fan... but his fan base is surely eroding as he lets time go by without giving the fans what they yearn for..... epic fights. And I do not put Pacquiao in the same category with Floyd. At least Pacquiao FIGHTS. No matter who it is. Pac haters will always find fault with Pac's choice of opponents. It's the nature of the game. But at least Pac FIGHTS.

IMO, Floyd may have been p4p a while back. But he's given up that throne a LONG time ago.

p4p originally was based on 2 things, skill (at the moment) and accomplishments, neither Marquez or Vazquez measured up to the level Floyd is still at today, you're ranting on about Pac haters but the same can be said about Floyd haters, you don't have to be a fan of the guy to know that still skill-wise he's head and shoulders above anyone under the top 3 guys on the p4p list, either way as the guy before my post said, all the p4p list has become is a flavor of the month club, whoever is most popular at the moment gets on, so take him off all you want, his first fight back against ANYONE and he'll be back at either #1 or #2, you can bet your house on that

Good post.

Greb fought middleweights, light heavyweights and heavyweights and his heaviest weight was about 170.

Ketchel fought Johnson.

Langford fought anywhere from 135 to heavyweight. Three years after beating the great lightweight Joe Gans he fought Jack Johnson. Sammy has more ko’s then Tyson and Foreman combined.

When I think p4p, I think of these guys not today’s group of 2 fights a year millionaires, a gazillion belts, HBO, PPV and catch weights. That’s not P4P…it’s a bake sale.

And then theirs the Murderers Row crew?

Holman Williams
Charley Burley
Jack Chase
Cocoa Kid
Lloyd Marshall
Kid Tunero
Eddie Booker
Joe Carter
Bert Lytell
Aaron Wade
Archie Moore

I hate to shit on a boxing term but p4p has no real meaning today. Gans fought Langford a day after Holly. A day.

[Gandalf]

Sure fighters aren't as active as in the past, but to hardened boxing fans PFP does matter. Personally, it isn't something I care too much about because it is extremely subjective, but I can see why some fans take it quite seriously. I do think that if a current PFP list is to exist in the eyes of fans then it should consist of current active fighters who are taking part in meaningful bouts, even if only twice a year.

Floyd for me is disqualified in that regard. And Floyd coming back and beating Paulie Malignaggi or whoever should not be enough to put him at the top of the pile. He needs to make the meaningful fights that exist out there for him and that means Manny or Martinez. You can't come back and be top dog on the back of tune up fights. Can Floyd still beat the best in his mid 30's? There is no sign of us finding out as of yet and tune ups aren't going to help us distinguish anything.

I agree with Elterrible that Martinez is the most impressive fighter today in that regard. Straight fights against very solid opposition. No catchweights, no questionable timing of opponents etc. The man is on the trajectory up. Manny has stalled with his leftovers and Floyd has gone AWOL.

[IamInuit]

Sure fighters aren't as active as in the past, but to hardened boxing fans PFP does matter. Whats a hardened boxing fan and define it. Personally, it isn't something I care too much about because it is extremely subjective, but I can see why some fans take it quite seriously. Wait a second... you just tried to justify it? I do think that if a current PFP list is to exist in the eyes of fans then it should consist of current active fighters who are taking part in meaningful bouts, even if only twice a year. The term p4p should be stricken from the list.

Floyd for me is disqualified in that regard. In what regard? And Floyd coming back and beating Paulie Malignaggi or whoever should not be enough to put him at the top of the pile. If Floyd wants a tune up then so be it. He needs to make the meaningful fights that exist out there for him and that means Manny or Martinez. You can't come back and be top dog on the back of tune up fights. Leonard came off a three year retirement. Can Floyd still beat the best in his mid 30's? Can Hopkins? There is no sign of us finding out as of yet and tune ups aren't going to help us distinguish anything.

I agree with Elterrible that Martinez is the most impressive fighter today in that regard. Straight fights against very solid opposition. No catchweights, no questionable timing of opponents etc. The man is on the trajectory up. Manny has stalled with his leftovers and Floyd has gone AWOL.

No argument on Martinez. Put my answers in bold Ftr.

[Kev]

Sure fighters aren't as active as in the past, but to hardened boxing fans PFP does matter. Personally, it isn't something I care too much about because it is extremely subjective, but I can see why some fans take it quite seriously. I do think that if a current PFP list is to exist in the eyes of fans then it should consist of current active fighters who are taking part in meaningful bouts, even if only twice a year.

Floyd for me is disqualified in that regard. And Floyd coming back and beating Paulie Malignaggi or whoever should not be enough to put him at the top of the pile. He needs to make the meaningful fights that exist out there for him and that means Manny or Martinez. You can't come back and be top dog on the back of tune up fights. Can Floyd still beat the best in his mid 30's? There is no sign of us finding out as of yet and tune ups aren't going to help us distinguish anything.

I agree with Elterrible that Martinez is the most impressive fighter today in that regard. Straight fights against very solid opposition. No catchweights, no questionable timing of opponents etc. The man is on the trajectory up. Manny has stalled with his leftovers and Floyd has gone AWOL.

Actually Martinez's last two fights have been at catchweight. You just didn't notice because Sergio's name is not Manny Pacqiao.

Also he defended his 160 title last time out against a fighter from the 154 lb division who was not only completely unranked at 160 lbs but had never fought in that weight class either. Again, none of you noticed this because Sergio's name is not Manny Pacquiao

[Kev]

On to this main question, I think it's an interesting but pointless discussion.

Reading people's reasons for dumping Floyd are quite enlightening to me though the reasons I shall now outline.

As Titofan is the most hostile to Floyd keeping his ranking I shall direct my post at him.

First off, you say that Floyd should be taken off to reward other fighters. This is strange. Are you suggesting that you agree Floyd is better, but to show respect for the efforts of more active fighters you want to pretend he's not around and leave him out? That seems a bit corrupt to me. If you think Floyd is one of the ten best fighters on the planet right now, surely he has to be there? He hasn't stated his retirement, and I think universally we all feel he is in the top 10 best living fighters right now, so should be ranked.

You also state that if we are going to keep Floyd in the p4p despite his inactivty then why not bring back all the other inactive fighters who could still be p4p.

I challenge you to name a single fighter who hasn't officially retired who could conceivably be rated in the top 10 who isn't there right now due to inactivty?

There isn't one, and this is the whole point.

If you take Floyd out the rankings, before he officially retires, he becomes the elephant in the room. We all know he's above the rest of those in there, arguably Manny aside and so ommiting him makes the p4p rankins wrong in an absolute sense.

I'm actually broadly in favour with Rafael's idea. If he hasn't announed anything by May 1st then, and only then can he consider being ommited, as a year's inactivty is considerable.

But let's give him another month, and if after he does announce a fight, I'd put him back in again as he clearly is a top 2 fighter by universal agreement.

[ElTerribleMorales]

Sure fighters aren't as active as in the past, but to hardened boxing fans PFP does matter. Personally, it isn't something I care too much about because it is extremely subjective, but I can see why some fans take it quite seriously. I do think that if a current PFP list is to exist in the eyes of fans then it should consist of current active fighters who are taking part in meaningful bouts, even if only twice a year.

Floyd for me is disqualified in that regard. And Floyd coming back and beating Paulie Malignaggi or whoever should not be enough to put him at the top of the pile. He needs to make the meaningful fights that exist out there for him and that means Manny or Martinez. You can't come back and be top dog on the back of tune up fights. Can Floyd still beat the best in his mid 30's? There is no sign of us finding out as of yet and tune ups aren't going to help us distinguish anything.

I agree with Elterrible that Martinez is the most impressive fighter today in that regard. Straight fights against very solid opposition. No catchweights, no questionable timing of opponents etc. The man is on the trajectory up. Manny has stalled with his leftovers and Floyd has gone AWOL.

Actually Martinez's last two fights have been at catchweight. You just didn't notice because Sergio's name is not Manny Pacqiao.

Also he defended his 160 title last time out against a fighter from the 154 lb division who was not only completely unranked at 160 lbs but had never fought in that weight class either. Again, none of you noticed this because Sergio's name is not Manny Pacquiao

who did the Catchweight favor? Williams and Dzinziruk

at what weight did Sergio Martinez win the LINEAL MIDDLEWEIGHT championship against the then LINEAL MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMPION Kelly Pavlik? oh right 160

Pacquiao's last two "titles at different weight classes" have been won at catch weights, so if you really don't even count those two it's 6, tieing DLH which all of a sudden doesn't sound so stellar seeing how no one made that big of a deal when DLH was the only 6 weight class champion in the history of the sport

[Kev]

Sure fighters aren't as active as in the past, but to hardened boxing fans PFP does matter. Personally, it isn't something I care too much about because it is extremely subjective, but I can see why some fans take it quite seriously. I do think that if a current PFP list is to exist in the eyes of fans then it should consist of current active fighters who are taking part in meaningful bouts, even if only twice a year.

Floyd for me is disqualified in that regard. And Floyd coming back and beating Paulie Malignaggi or whoever should not be enough to put him at the top of the pile. He needs to make the meaningful fights that exist out there for him and that means Manny or Martinez. You can't come back and be top dog on the back of tune up fights. Can Floyd still beat the best in his mid 30's? There is no sign of us finding out as of yet and tune ups aren't going to help us distinguish anything.

I agree with Elterrible that Martinez is the most impressive fighter today in that regard. Straight fights against very solid opposition. No catchweights, no questionable timing of opponents etc. The man is on the trajectory up. Manny has stalled with his leftovers and Floyd has gone AWOL.

Actually Martinez's last two fights have been at catchweight. You just didn't notice because Sergio's name is not Manny Pacqiao.

Also he defended his 160 title last time out against a fighter from the 154 lb division who was not only completely unranked at 160 lbs but had never fought in that weight class either. Again, none of you noticed this because Sergio's name is not Manny Pacquiao

who did the Catchweight favor? Williams and Dzinziruk

at what weight did Sergio Martinez win the LINEAL MIDDLEWEIGHT championship against the then LINEAL MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMPION Kelly Pavlik? oh right 160

Pacquiao's last two "titles at different weight classes" have been won at catch weights, so if you really don't even count those two it's 6, tieing DLH which all of a sudden doesn't sound so stellar seeing how no one made that big of a deal when DLH was the only 6 weight class champion in the history of the sport

I have no problem with Martinez at all I'm just highlighting the inconsistencies here.

The rest of your post exposes you to more easy criticism though. I'm tempted to go there, highlighting Pavliks devastingly one sided loss to B Hop that had Manny fought a fighter coming off that performace would have been met with derision for example. Or maybe to argue your point that seems to be catchweights are good as long as they don't disadvantage one opponent, and explain to you that Margarito was allowed by Manny to weigh a full 3 lbs more than when Shane Mosley fought him a year before which surely meant the catchweight was to his advantage more than Manny's,

Had Manny fought him at 147 he would have won even easier, but instead he allowed him to gain three pounds more. That says a lot imo.

Anyway, I won't go there.

[Kev]

Oh and as for people not making a big deal out of Oscar's world titles, isn't he like one of the top 5 biggest boxing stars in history?

Have you ever even listened to one of his prefight ring introductions. I would say the boxing world cares and makes a big deal..

[Hulk]

I believe that after a one year non injury caused layoff that a fighter should be out. PFP should be for serious active fighters who are looking to prove their greatness. Not part time primma donna's like 'likkle' Floyd Jr.

He should be removed.

Winky Wright used to have super long lay offs, and sure enough he got dropped out of the P4P rankings and his own weight class rankings.

Same with Verno Phillips recently.

1 year of inactivity seems to get you dropped out of the rankings. Thats the consensus.

[Gandalf]

Sure fighters aren't as active as in the past, but to hardened boxing fans PFP does matter. Whats a hardened boxing fan and define it. Personally, it isn't something I care too much about because it is extremely subjective, but I can see why some fans take it quite seriously. Wait a second... you just tried to justify it? I do think that if a current PFP list is to exist in the eyes of fans then it should consist of current active fighters who are taking part in meaningful bouts, even if only twice a year. The term p4p should be stricken from the list.

Floyd for me is disqualified in that regard. In what regard? And Floyd coming back and beating Paulie Malignaggi or whoever should not be enough to put him at the top of the pile. If Floyd wants a tune up then so be it. He needs to make the meaningful fights that exist out there for him and that means Manny or Martinez. You can't come back and be top dog on the back of tune up fights. Leonard came off a three year retirement. Can Floyd still beat the best in his mid 30's? Can Hopkins? There is no sign of us finding out as of yet and tune ups aren't going to help us distinguish anything.

I agree with Elterrible that Martinez is the most impressive fighter today in that regard. Straight fights against very solid opposition. No catchweights, no questionable timing of opponents etc. The man is on the trajectory up. Manny has stalled with his leftovers and Floyd has gone AWOL.

No argument on Martinez. Put my answers in bold Ftr.

PFP is about opinions. I put forth earlier that it was my opinion that a year out with no fight planned = disqualification. He has no reason to be in any list, he is effectively retired.

If Floyd wants a tune up then fair enough, but it isn't enough to catapult him back to the top of any list. You have to beat meaningful opposition to deserve PFP status and not just wins attained however many years ago.

Leonard did indeed come back off of a long layoff, but for those 18 months when there NOTHING happening then he too was effectively retired. Didn't he say as much too?

Hopkins can and does compete, he hasn't retired. He has fought stiff opposition in Pascal, Calzaghe and Pavlik.

[Gandalf]

Sure fighters aren't as active as in the past, but to hardened boxing fans PFP does matter. Personally, it isn't something I care too much about because it is extremely subjective, but I can see why some fans take it quite seriously. I do think that if a current PFP list is to exist in the eyes of fans then it should consist of current active fighters who are taking part in meaningful bouts, even if only twice a year.

Floyd for me is disqualified in that regard. And Floyd coming back and beating Paulie Malignaggi or whoever should not be enough to put him at the top of the pile. He needs to make the meaningful fights that exist out there for him and that means Manny or Martinez. You can't come back and be top dog on the back of tune up fights. Can Floyd still beat the best in his mid 30's? There is no sign of us finding out as of yet and tune ups aren't going to help us distinguish anything.

I agree with Elterrible that Martinez is the most impressive fighter today in that regard. Straight fights against very solid opposition. No catchweights, no questionable timing of opponents etc. The man is on the trajectory up. Manny has stalled with his leftovers and Floyd has gone AWOL.

Actually Martinez's last two fights have been at catchweight. You just didn't notice because Sergio's name is not Manny Pacqiao.

Also he defended his 160 title last time out against a fighter from the 154 lb division who was not only completely unranked at 160 lbs but had never fought in that weight class either. Again, none of you noticed this because Sergio's name is not Manny Pacquiao

I noticed the fights at CW's. I also criticised the Williams one in particular, but that was clearly set in place by Williams who was still trying to call the shots. You can't argue with wins over an undefeated fighter, an avoided guy like Williams and a tough big guy like Pavlik. It answers all the questions. It is Manny that has been calling all the shots in his fights and that is what detracts. Generally speaking Martinez doesn't do that and he clearly beat Cintron too.

Martinez has been doing things the way Manny should have been doing all along.

[Gandalf]

Oh and as for people not making a big deal out of Oscar's world titles, isn't he like one of the top 5 biggest boxing stars in history?

Have you ever even listened to one of his prefight ring introductions. I would say the boxing world cares and makes a big deal..

And since when did you start defending the orange girl? Shame on you, Bilbo!

[Kev]

Oh and as for people not making a big deal out of Oscar's world titles, isn't he like one of the top 5 biggest boxing stars in history?

Have you ever even listened to one of his prefight ring introductions. I would say the boxing world cares and makes a big deal..

And since when did you start defending the orange girl? Shame on you, Bilbo!

No defense from me. I'm just pointing out how ridiculous it is to say that the boxing world doesn't give Oscar any props for his six world titles at different weights.

The man is feted as a God practically.

Anyway, Manny rules, on this we agree, well on earth at least. The heavens belong to God and Jesus will take over the real p4p when He returns, as we both well know and agree.

[Manuel "Chubby" Medina]

Sure an we might as well bring back Sugar Ray Robinson on the top of the list too!

Imo u shouldnt b ranked unless u have made a big impact within the last year or so.

[ruthless rocco]

So can we agree that if there's no Mayweather fight announced before may 1st then floyd becomes the #1 P4P fighter in the Inactive But Still Alive catagory... yeah?

(That places Sugar Ray Robinson at the top of the P4P Inactive But Dead catagory.)