Top 10 all-time 185 lb. fighters?

[greynotsoold]

The heaviest Greb ever weighed was 176, for one fight, in the middle of his career. Conn weighed over 180 in only his last three fights, and as much as I love Conn that fighter isn't relevant in a "best of..." discussion. Otherwise, he fought in the mid 160s.

[marbleheadmaui]

The heaviest Greb ever weighed was 176, for one fight, in the middle of his career. Conn weighed over 180 in only his last three fights, and as much as I love Conn that fighter isn't relevant in a "best of..." discussion. Otherwise, he fought in the mid 160s.

Yeah but BOTH of those guys handled several/many men who weighed 185 or so. I don't think the issue is how far under 185 one weights, it is how does one perform (while under 185) against other men at or around 185, isn't it?

[IamInuit]

The heaviest Greb ever weighed was 176, for one fight, in the middle of his career. Conn weighed over 180 in only his last three fights, and as much as I love Conn that fighter isn't relevant in a "best of..." discussion. Otherwise, he fought in the mid 160s.

Both of those guys can easily be entered onto someone's list. Conn is relevant and you could make the case Greb also as he handed Tunney his only pro loss and theirs another disputed loss to Tunney out of the 5 times they fought. Greb was a real p4p fighter in an 8 man division. He fought guys that outweighed him by more then 30 pounds. He beat up Levinsky who Nat Fleischer holds to be the 5th greatest light hev of all time. He also fought and beat future hev contenders. Conn was pitching a shut over a much better version of Louis then Marciano fought until the 13th round. Of course he's relevant to the conversation.

[Master]

Yes Rocky would be the last man standing against Holyfield.

[El Kabong]

Stanley Ketchel would also deserve a mention.

[greynotsoold]

So what we are talking about, then, is anybody 185 or under that somebody thinks could beat Marciano? Or really good fighters under 185 pounds?

[marbleheadmaui]

So what we are talking about, then, is anybody 185 or under that somebody thinks could beat Marciano? Or really good fighters under 185 pounds?

[scratching head] I thought it was the former...but I could be wrong.

[IamInuit]

Also scratching head, that's why I asked the question in my initial post. 185? You could drive a bus through that.

[ICB]

Marciano beat Moore, Charles. Qawi wouldn't have had a prayer, unless you think a mediocre fighter, at best, is going to stand in a slug with one of the top heavyweights. Holyfield at cruiser wouldn't beat Marciano; Conn fought Louis at 174, and Moorer's chin would let him down.
At this weight- 185- I think it really comes down to 2 guys, and, honestly, I'm suprised nobody mentioned it, as this would have to be one of the all-time dream, who would win if matches: Dempsey vs Marciano.
Though Dempsey did occasionally weigh 195-200, the majority of his fights were in the 185-190 range.

Dwight Muhammad Qawi was not average, far from it. He destroyed Matthew Saad Muhammad twice, and beat some very good Light Heavyweights.

And had a very successful Cruiserweight career, and whilst being way past his prime and at Heavyweight gave George Foreman some problems aswell.

Rocky Marciano beat an old Archie Moore, and an old Ezzard Charles. Im on about prime for prime here, or even a catch weight.

Evander Holyfield had the chin and the stamina, he also had the boxing skills. He would give Rocky Mariciano all he could handle and more.

Read my post again i never said those guys would beat him, i said they have a good chance or could compete with him which they easily could.

As for fighters like Harry Greb i've never seen any footage of him, so i really can't judge.

[brocktonblockbust]

the former is correct.....1st we establish the top 10, then, by design, we determine if Marciano cold smoke 'em all,.......Ive made my determination. YES HE COULD.

[Master]

I think a prime Ezzard Charles could have given Rocky some trouble and what if Joe Louis starved himself to get down to that weight.

[IamInuit]

I think a prime Ezzard Charles could have given Rocky some trouble and what if Joe Louis starved himself to get down to that weight.

A prime Charles would slap him silly. Marciano arguably fought in the weakest hev division in boxing history. By today's standards, that pretty lame. Its not his fault but it is what it is. Moore was essentially shot, Charles was terribly battle worn and Walcott was what 42, 43, 44? Nobody knows but he was waxing Marciano before Suzi Q saw the open door.

Ftr I think what Marciano did was great but objectivity if applied would suggest that theirs probably 20 or more light-heavyweights post Marciano with a good shot at beating him let alone some of those from his own era.

[marbleheadmaui]

I think a prime Ezzard Charles could have given Rocky some trouble and what if Joe Louis starved himself to get down to that weight.

A prime Charles would slap him silly. Marciano arguably fought in the weakest hev division in boxing history. By today's standards, that pretty lame. Its not his fault but it is what it is. Moore was essentially shot, Charles was terribly battle worn and Walcott was what 42, 43, 44? Nobody knows but he was waxing Marciano before Suzi Q saw the open door.

Ftr I think what Marciano did was great but objectivity if applied would suggest that theirs probably 20 or more light-heavyweights post Marciano with a good shot at beating him let alone some of those from his own era.

Geeze I'd like to see that list.

Harold Johnson was great but little reason to thinjk his chin was good enough.
Willie Pastrano might have had a shot, but man he could do nothing to discourage the Rock.
Jose Torres was stopped by the Ox. Now he was a great puncher, but he was a middleweight. No shot.
I love Dick Tiger but come on.
Bob Foster has a shot, but his chin never held up against the big boys.
John Conteh? He has a shot. Very slick guy. He'd be on his bike all night.
Victor Galindez? Bye bye Victor.
Saad Muhammad. I love the guy but everybody hit him and I see no reason to believe he could take it. But he could keep the Rock honest.
Marvin Johnson? Hit hard enough to keep Rocky honest. Be a brawl as long as it lasted.
Qawi. It'd be a bloodbath but this is a bad matchup for Qawi.
Spinks. He'd win every round until Rocky knocked him out.
Virgil Hill. Next.
Evander. The toughest matchup for the Rock on this list I think.
Roy Jones. Jones would win the first 5-6 rounds. Then he'd make on of his routine footwork mistakes and he'd wake up three weeks later.
Darius. Good fight, Rocky wears him out and stops him late.
Calzaghe. I think this is a better matchup than most would say. Calzaghe is a tough guy and he could punch and was an extraordinary athlete. But how does he stop Rocky from coming? Can he cut him?
BHOP. No shot. Not active enough.

I mean I'd favor Rocky in every one of those fights except Evander.

[greynotsoold]

I think a prime Ezzard Charles could have given Rocky some trouble and what if Joe Louis starved himself to get down to that weight.

A prime Charles would slap him silly. Marciano arguably fought in the weakest hev division in boxing history. By today's standards, that pretty lame. Its not his fault but it is what it is. Moore was essentially shot, Charles was terribly battle worn and Walcott was what 42, 43, 44? Nobody knows but he was waxing Marciano before Suzi Q saw the open door.

Ftr I think what Marciano did was great but objectivity if applied would suggest that theirs probably 20 or more light-heavyweights post Marciano with a good shot at beating him let alone some of those from his own era.

Geeze I'd like to see that list.

Harold Johnson was great but little reason to thinjk his chin was good enough.
Willie Pastrano might have had a shot, but man he could do nothing to discourage the Rock.
Jose Torres was stopped by the Ox. Now he was a great puncher, but he was a middleweight. No shot.
I love Dick Tiger but come on.
Bob Foster has a shot, but his chin never held up against the big boys.
John Conteh? He has a shot. Very slick guy. He'd be on his bike all night.
Victor Galindez? Bye bye Victor.
Saad Muhammad. I love the guy but everybody hit him and I see no reason to believe he could take it. But he could keep the Rock honest.
Marvin Johnson? Hit hard enough to keep Rocky honest. Be a brawl as long as it lasted.
Qawi. It'd be a bloodbath but this is a bad matchup for Qawi.
Spinks. He'd win every round until Rocky knocked him out.
Virgil Hill. Next.
Evander. The toughest matchup for the Rock on this list I think.
Roy Jones. Jones would win the first 5-6 rounds. Then he'd make on of his routine footwork mistakes and he'd wake up three weeks later.
Darius. Good fight, Rocky wears him out and stops him late.
Calzaghe. I think this is a better matchup than most would say. Calzaghe is a tough guy and he could punch and was an extraordinary athlete. But how does he stop Rocky from coming? Can he cut him?
BHOP. No shot. Not active enough.

I mean I'd favor Rocky in every one of those fights except Evander.

Good post. And I don't think Holyfield would win either, because he'd get into a toe to toe fight against a guy that would be better at it. Holyfield squared up too much in close and, as a result, was real easy to hit with uppercuts and left hooks to the body.
Beating Marciano, especially for a guy coming up in weight, would be trial by fire. You would have to keep moving, pick your spots, get your punches off and get away, and the fight could potentially end with every punch he threw. (Ask Kid Mathews about his left hook). Tunney could, possibly do this, as he did against Dempsey (coming off a long layoff), maybe Conn, but those guys really knew how to fight and had honed their skills in lots of rounds against very good opposition.
Also, Marciano would manhandle most smaller guys in clinches and this would be especially true against modern fighters because they don't know how to fight inside, much less in clinches.

[IamInuit]

I think a prime Ezzard Charles could have given Rocky some trouble and what if Joe Louis starved himself to get down to that weight.

A prime Charles would slap him silly. Marciano arguably fought in the weakest hev division in boxing history. By today's standards, that pretty lame. Its not his fault but it is what it is. Moore was essentially shot, Charles was terribly battle worn and Walcott was what 42, 43, 44? Nobody knows but he was waxing Marciano before Suzi Q saw the open door.

Ftr I think what Marciano did was great but objectivity if applied would suggest that theirs probably 20 or more light-heavyweights post Marciano with a good shot at beating him let alone some of those from his own era.

Geeze I'd like to see that list.

Harold Johnson was great but little reason to thinjk his chin was good enough.
Willie Pastrano might have had a shot, but man he could do nothing to discourage the Rock.
Jose Torres was stopped by the Ox. Now he was a great puncher, but he was a middleweight. No shot.
I love Dick Tiger but come on.
Bob Foster has a shot, but his chin never held up against the big boys.
John Conteh? He has a shot. Very slick guy. He'd be on his bike all night.
Victor Galindez? Bye bye Victor.
Saad Muhammad. I love the guy but everybody hit him and I see no reason to believe he could take it. But he could keep the Rock honest.
Marvin Johnson? Hit hard enough to keep Rocky honest. Be a brawl as long as it lasted.
Qawi. It'd be a bloodbath but this is a bad matchup for Qawi.
Spinks. He'd win every round until Rocky knocked him out.
Virgil Hill. Next.
Evander. The toughest matchup for the Rock on this list I think.
Roy Jones. Jones would win the first 5-6 rounds. Then he'd make on of his routine footwork mistakes and he'd wake up three weeks later.
Darius. Good fight, Rocky wears him out and stops him late.
Calzaghe. I think this is a better matchup than most would say. Calzaghe is a tough guy and he could punch and was an extraordinary athlete. But how does he stop Rocky from coming? Can he cut him?
BHOP. No shot. Not active enough.

I mean I'd favor Rocky in every one of those fights except Evander.

Give me a few to ponder I mean seriously I think Harmon, Hall, Tarver, Griffin and Johnson would give him issues.

Anyway lets assume prime in all hypothetical.