Is the Game Up for Lance Armstrong?

[CFH]

It's one thing when caught cheaters Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton claim Lance used. It is another when the highly respected George Hincapie, never caught and Armstrong's closes riding buddy says "Lance and I used together."

I think the jig is up.

And it doesn't surprise me in the least.

These PED's WORK! Ordinarily the gap between top competitors at a world class level is measured in a fraction of 1%. Pretty clearly these drugs improve performance (where it can be measured) by 5%+. Now we know, because they were either caught or admitted cheating, that every significant competitive force during Armstrong's reign was using.

So, in order to believe Lance was clean you had to believe he was better clean than everyone else was dirty. That implies he would have been 5%+ better than everyone else clean vs. clean. Let's try to put that in perspective.

Sprinting Revolution Usain Bolt holds the 100 meter record at 9.58 seconds. That is 1.6% below the best time by another runner.

Micahel Phelps best event is the probably the 200 butterfly. His world record time is 1.1% below the next best time swum by another.

The likelihood Lance is 5% better? Every year for seven years?

Anyone care to take that bet?

This also ought to make anyone who believes passing WADA random tests equals being clean rethink that stance.

I just want to understand something, you are ok with thinking Armstrong used, but not Pac. What about your whole innocent until proven guilty spiel?

I have NEVER said Manny is clean. He may well be using. The issue with Manny is PROCESS. Singling him out with not a shred of evidence (and I mean NOTHING) is very different from examining a guy who has beaten PROVEN USERS over and over and over again.

The most incriminating circumstantial evidence against Armstrong is that he beat cheaters. Doing that while clean? Pretty unlikely. Now had Cotto and Barerra and Sasakul and Oscar tested positive? THEN the situations would be similar.

Ok, thats fair enough, tbh I really dont have alot of info on Armstrong, but his win streak and endurance is out of this world. It does shed doubts when that kind of performance occurs. Also, he battled cancers and won, and I thought that some of the treatments probably included steroids, but thats something I'm not really sure about.

Maui is a Pactard, not to be mistaken for a Pac fan. A Pac fan is a fan like anything else. Maui really shouldn't have started commenting on steroids. Nice how Lance and Manny should be treated different all off hearsay. This guys a Pactard

No, he isn't. He's one of the better posters on the site, despite being relatively new. You, on the other hand, are flirting with a ban by continuing to spam the site with your anti-Pacquiao ramblings.

[marbleheadmaui]

It's one thing when caught cheaters Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton claim Lance used. It is another when the highly respected George Hincapie, never caught and Armstrong's closes riding buddy says "Lance and I used together."

I think the jig is up.

And it doesn't surprise me in the least.

These PED's WORK! Ordinarily the gap between top competitors at a world class level is measured in a fraction of 1%. Pretty clearly these drugs improve performance (where it can be measured) by 5%+. Now we know, because they were either caught or admitted cheating, that every significant competitive force during Armstrong's reign was using.

So, in order to believe Lance was clean you had to believe he was better clean than everyone else was dirty. That implies he would have been 5%+ better than everyone else clean vs. clean. Let's try to put that in perspective.

Sprinting Revolution Usain Bolt holds the 100 meter record at 9.58 seconds. That is 1.6% below the best time by another runner.

Micahel Phelps best event is the probably the 200 butterfly. His world record time is 1.1% below the next best time swum by another.

The likelihood Lance is 5% better? Every year for seven years?

Anyone care to take that bet?

This also ought to make anyone who believes passing WADA random tests equals being clean rethink that stance.

I just want to understand something, you are ok with thinking Armstrong used, but not Pac. What about your whole innocent until proven guilty spiel?

I have NEVER said Manny is clean. He may well be using. The issue with Manny is PROCESS. Singling him out with not a shred of evidence (and I mean NOTHING) is very different from examining a guy who has beaten PROVEN USERS over and over and over again.

The most incriminating circumstantial evidence against Armstrong is that he beat cheaters. Doing that while clean? Pretty unlikely. Now had Cotto and Barerra and Sasakul and Oscar tested positive? THEN the situations would be similar.

Ok, thats fair enough, tbh I really dont have alot of info on Armstrong, but his win streak and endurance is out of this world. It does shed doubts when that kind of performance occurs. Also, he battled cancers and won, and I thought that some of the treatments probably included steroids, but thats something I'm not really sure about.

His treatments for cancer ABSOLUTELY included steroids. But that type of steroid, corticosteroids, are not at issue here. Those are medicinal as opposed to anabolics which are muscle builders.

[Ghost]

His treatments for cancer ABSOLUTELY included steroids. But that type of steroid, corticosteroids, are not at issue here. Those are medicinal as opposed to anabolics which are muscle builders.

Which are also used in some cancer patients.

[Preme]

It's one thing when caught cheaters Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton claim Lance used. It is another when the highly respected George Hincapie, never caught and Armstrong's closes riding buddy says "Lance and I used together."

I think the jig is up.

And it doesn't surprise me in the least.

These PED's WORK! Ordinarily the gap between top competitors at a world class level is measured in a fraction of 1%. Pretty clearly these drugs improve performance (where it can be measured) by 5%+. Now we know, because they were either caught or admitted cheating, that every significant competitive force during Armstrong's reign was using.

So, in order to believe Lance was clean you had to believe he was better clean than everyone else was dirty. That implies he would have been 5%+ better than everyone else clean vs. clean. Let's try to put that in perspective.

Sprinting Revolution Usain Bolt holds the 100 meter record at 9.58 seconds. That is 1.6% below the best time by another runner.

Micahel Phelps best event is the probably the 200 butterfly. His world record time is 1.1% below the next best time swum by another.

The likelihood Lance is 5% better? Every year for seven years?

Anyone care to take that bet?

This also ought to make anyone who believes passing WADA random tests equals being clean rethink that stance.

So say the number 1 & 2 ranked boxers squared off to fight for the vacant title and the number one ranked fighter won on points, scoring 5% more than his defeated opponent. If we use your logic, then he has to have been on PED's?

Facts and figures can be manipulated to support any argument. Armstrong was the most tested competitor ever in that sport? I'm sure he would have been caught out.

[marbleheadmaui]

It's one thing when caught cheaters Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton claim Lance used. It is another when the highly respected George Hincapie, never caught and Armstrong's closes riding buddy says "Lance and I used together."

I think the jig is up.

And it doesn't surprise me in the least.

These PED's WORK! Ordinarily the gap between top competitors at a world class level is measured in a fraction of 1%. Pretty clearly these drugs improve performance (where it can be measured) by 5%+. Now we know, because they were either caught or admitted cheating, that every significant competitive force during Armstrong's reign was using.

So, in order to believe Lance was clean you had to believe he was better clean than everyone else was dirty. That implies he would have been 5%+ better than everyone else clean vs. clean. Let's try to put that in perspective.

Sprinting Revolution Usain Bolt holds the 100 meter record at 9.58 seconds. That is 1.6% below the best time by another runner.

Micahel Phelps best event is the probably the 200 butterfly. His world record time is 1.1% below the next best time swum by another.

The likelihood Lance is 5% better? Every year for seven years?

Anyone care to take that bet?

This also ought to make anyone who believes passing WADA random tests equals being clean rethink that stance.

So say the number 1 & 2 ranked boxers squared off to fight for the vacant title and the number one ranked fighter won on points, scoring 5% more than his defeated opponent. If we use your logic, then he has to have been on PED's?

Facts and figures can be manipulated to support any argument. Armstrong was the most tested competitor ever in that sport? I'm sure he would have been caught out.

Not the way you just did they can't. yeah, Lance would have been caught....just like Marion Jones.

[Hornfinger]

Why would you believe Lance Armstrong's riding buddy, but not Pacquiao's sparring partner?


If Lance has passed random blood testing then you have to say he has proven himself clean.

Would I put a bet on that he has never used, nope.

[Kev]

Why would you believe Lance Armstrong's riding buddy, but not Pacquiao's sparring partner?


If Lance has passed random blood testing then you have to say he has proven himself clean.

Would I put a bet on that he has never used, nope.

How do the two compare? Lance is being accused by real people, who were his known teammates and are publicly coming out.

Manny's 'sparring partner revelation' was just a completely anonymous posting on an internent forum.

If a confirmed sparring partner comes out, and publicly states something then the story has legs but anyone can write an anyonmous email and say 'I was Manny's sparring partner and I used to inject him' and post it on a dodgy website.

That is no kind of story at all.

[Hornfinger]

I don't see any difference.

It's emperor's new clothes. I'm not a pactard so i don't see it.