Looking back at old controversial fights.... (Updated) Jones vs. Tarver I

[SweetPea]

I guess that a round that is won is 10-9, a round with a knockdown OR is completely dominated without a knockdown is 10-8, and if there are multiple knockdowns it can be judged 10-7, never anything lower than a 7 without penalty though.

Yeah I see what you're saying. I think the real question we need to answer is if there's a knockdown that is not legit, like the Morales knockdown in the 12th, can the judge legally score that round either 10-9 Morales or 10-10, or is he forced to give Morales no more than 9 points for the round?

[MrB]

I may have to look up my CD for that fight. As far as I can remember, I gave the fight to Marco. There is no way Morales won that fight. Marco was whooping Morales, pushing him, hitting the harder shots. It was nice, even in that good Rd 5. It was all Marco. It felt like Morales was a support cast in that one.

Let me dig that fight and I will give my score card as well

[killersheep]

I may have to look up my CD for that fight. As far as I can remember, I gave the fight to Marco. There is no way Morales won that fight. Marco was whooping Morales, pushing him, hitting the harder shots. It was nice, even in that good Rd 5. It was all Marco. It felt like Morales was a support cast in that one.

Let me dig that fight and I will give my score card as well

That's where you have to ask what are you really judging, because there are many factors.

Ring generalship, punches landed, effective punches, etc.

There were many rounds that Morales outlanded Barrera 2-1, but Barrera was obviously doing more damage.

[Bookkeeper]

This thread is outstanding. I am surprised how many people scored it for Morales, I remember so many people saying they thought Barrera won. I need to watch it again because I have not seen it in years, I guess the Judges got it right.

[SweetPea]

| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | total
Barrera | 10 | 10 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 114
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Morales | 9 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 9 | 10 | 9 | 9 | 114

I thought Barrera started the fight very strong, and finished strong, but he gave away a bunch of rounds between 3-7 because he just didn't throw enough punches. He let Morales outwork him.
I had a tough time scoring the 9th. I think it was an even round, but I generally try to avoid scoring rounds even, so I gave it to Barrera for hurting Morales in the final seconds. But I could've given the 9th to Morales or scored it even.
I scored the 12th 10-9 instead of 10-8 because it wasn't a legit knockdown, there was no punch landed.
There were a bunch of rounds in this fight that were tough to score, so either guy could have won the fight. I certainly don't think Barrera was robbed like many people believe. It was simply too close of a fight with too many close rounds to say that either guy clearly won or lost.
114-114, draw

[Lords Gym]

great idea Pea ! I gotta dig up that fight and give it a watch and score it ! to everyone that participates in the scoring.. this is something that will benifit everyone.. so much to learn. fight film is one of the best learning tools there is in boxing !

[CutMeMick]

| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4| 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | total
Barrera | 10| 10 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 10| 10| 9 | 9 | 9 |10 | 113
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Morales | 9 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 10 |10 | 10 | 10 | 8 | 115


I scored the fight for Morales, when I first saw it and I scored it like this after seeing it just now...... I don't see it any other way.....

[ICB]

seems people are going with morales i would of give it to morales its just that 10-8 round made it a draw even though it wasnt a knockdown which is a shame if it hadnt of been for 10-8 round morales would of won by 1 point on my card but you have to count 10-8 round so its draw on my card and lederman giving barerra these rounds i thought wtf what are you looking at i remember one round cant remember which morales practically beat him for most of the round and he gave it to barrera lederman must of been drunk that night

[ICB]

and cc sweetpea cant wait for next fight i love seeing how different people scored close controversial fights

[Howlin Mad Missy]

| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | total
Barrera | 10 | 10 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 114
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Morales | 9 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 9 | 10 | 9 | 9 | 114

I thought Barrera started the fight very strong, and finished strong, but he gave away a bunch of rounds between 3-7 because he just didn't throw enough punches. He let Morales outwork him.
I had a tough time scoring the 9th. I think it was an even round, but I generally try to avoid scoring rounds even, so I gave it to Barrera for hurting Morales in the final seconds. But I could've given the 9th to Morales or scored it even.
I scored the 12th 10-9 instead of 10-8 because it wasn't a legit knockdown, there was no punch landed.
There were a bunch of rounds in this fight that were tough to score, so either guy could have won the fight. I certainly don't think Barrera was robbed like many people believe. It was simply too close of a fight with too many close rounds to say that either guy clearly won or lost.
114-114, draw

if a fighter sags down through being tied does it score? If you take a knee because you're tired I'd score it.

It depends on how and what you score. Do half a dozen jabs = one hard hook? Yes jabs count I've seen plenty on fights won soley on it but their are other factors. If a fighter starts a round well, backs off then flurries and hurts the other guy with 20 seconds to go who gets the round?

Sheep. If the ref calls it a knockdown you score it as such otherwise whats the point?

[SweetPea]

if a fighter sags down through being tied does it score? If you take a knee because you're tired I'd score it.

No, a knockdown is supposed to be a fighter going to the canvas as the result of a punch. Replays clearly showed that no punch landed. Barrera went to throw a short hook, but clearly missed over the top of Morales head. Morales leaned down and went to clinch, but Barrera fell forward into him and the impact of Barrera's body knocked Morales to one knee. It was a push/slip, not a knockdown.

I believe this cheap knockdown was the only one of Morales' career until the 2nd Pacquiao fight, correct?

[GAME]

| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | total
Barrera | 10 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 9 | 10 | 115
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Morales | 9 | 9 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 8 | 112


115-112 Barrera . I remember when the decision was announced there was uproar . Nobody agrred with it and its a shame cuz after such a great fight there was booing around the arena . Barrera bossed it early with better speed and swept the 1st 3 rounds . Morales worked his way back into it but was hurt in the 5th. I still gave Morales that round though cuz he outworked Barrera for the 1st two . Morales took the next 3 rounds to make it an even fight and this is where Barreras better defence was apparent . Plus he was doing more damage and Morales was often staggered . Barrera was taking the later rounds knowing when to up the pace and finish rounds strong . Morales always answered attacks and occassionally flustered Barrera . He'd clawed his way back into the argument and I had him a round down going into the 12th . Barrera really worked hard though and Morales was floored due to exhaustion which should have put it beyond doubt . Dispite the bad decision Barrera beat Morales twice over after that fight so it put things right . Great fight though .

[kenoh]

floyd says hes the best of all times the main thing he bases that on is becouse he never lost and will never lose but he did lose and i'm not debating this jose luis castillo 1st fight even a newbie would agree if they are being honest with themselfs and us hows that for controversial!!!!!!

[SweetPea]

Dispite the bad decision Barrera beat Morales twice over after that fight so it put things right.

You'd find plenty of people who would question whether Barrera really beat Morales in their second fight. Hmmmm, sounds like a good idea for a thread.....

[GAME]

Dispite the bad decision Barrera beat Morales twice over after that fight so it put things right.

You'd find plenty of people who would question whether Barrera really beat Morales in their second fight. Hmmmm, sounds like a good idea for a thread.....

I assumed it was coming next Barrera had a much easier fight next time round . He emerged unmarked but Erik looked like he had been in a war . No where near as good as the 1st fight . Rematches usually arent but then it picks up again in the decider