Landing the Jab

[Sharla]

I met a trainer on the weekend who recommended bending the left wrist a little rather than holding it rigid and using it to get around straight punches a bit - just as an unusual kind of jab.

Where I'm from everyone tries to throw everything straight but he was from the UK and had a very different style to anything I've seen before. Unusual jab but seemed handy for countering.

[ThomasTabin]

Starting with my attempt to counter your hard jab I have several options, among which will give me the chance that I need to counter your right hand.

It'd be risky, but let's say that I slip to the inside of your jab and your right hand is waiting for me. If I could some how stop your right hand with my left then I would be able to counter with my own right hand.

Rewinding back again to when you threw your jab what other things could I do? There are several other defensive moves that I could apply against your left, but none that I can think of right now would give me any certainty of countering your right hand. I feel that I would not be in position to use my shoulder to counter your right hand while I am coming in. I'm still a little a little hazy at what my other options are.

Yes you're very right you could counter my right with your own right. You could also slip the right over your right shoulder and throw a left hook to my liver. As long as you could find out what conditions where causing me to throw that right hand and then trigger me into doing so I think you would give me many problems. I think grey has some posts around outlining in good detail as always some counters for the right hand. You'll have to excuse me I've been drinking a little bit so I'm drawing blanks right now.

But also, you must also consider that you don't have to follow me around. You could always circle me - making me follow you and forcing the fight. I would have to change my whole strategy if you forced me to come after you. Maybe you could force me into throwing something.

[Chris Nagel]

It was hard to think about how to set you up to throw a right hand. I thought would be unable to force the opening as long as you're circling, staying out of range, and throwing a your noncommital jab while avoiding exchanges. Feinting, drawing and leading wouldn't help if you're not giving me anything to counter. My best bet is not for me to force the fight, but after a few rounds of sparring like action I'd wait for you to force the fight. I thought I could do the same thing that you'd be doing to me and keeping an eye for your hard jab that would give me openings for a lot of nifty counters.

Anyways I've been reading grey's posts and I have something cooked up that'll make a terrific read. I hope to have it up by sometime later today.

[ICB]

I tell you a jab i hate seeing when im watching a fight is when you duck right down and throw a lazy jab to the body why i hate this is because your open for easy counters i see this in Leonard vs Hearns 2 fight with Leonard doing it.


And as for orignal question it all depends some people use hard stiff jab to do damage and nothing else others use it as range finder and others use it to set up shots i put snap into my jab and set up shots i throw my jab like a whip to get a nice snap to it and its importrant to turn the fist at exactly the right moment when connecting.

[themonk]

maybe i could get some help for this one. what do I use my jab for?
im a big tall guy so I use it to keep my opponents away from me, and for medium strength shots to the head. however, because of my very limited sparring experience, the guys i spar just take advantage of my semi-committed right arm (southpaw) and get inside my defense and rip me up........

[ThomasTabin]

Hey Chris what Nicolino Locche fights do you have? What do you think of his jab?

[Chris Nagel]

I have his fight with Paul Takeshi, and his second fight against Cervantes. If I remember correctly he had a nice crisp rising jab, often shooting it out quick in 2's and 3's. He also had a good stiff jab that he'd throw. I also like the way he feinted with it too, his jab was his best punch.

[Andre]

If someones non commital with a long jab keeping you at arms length for tapping scores keeping you at range or as an ariel ;I think your better off changing your first thoughts and start thinking about when it is returning home into his load position ;get your mind into that timing and follow it right home with a shot thats disguised by his movment;maybe following his elbow then looping up and over his arm and make him pay; or bodily move on it and change the action that way with a disguised first shot from underneath it or something. I like the idea of switching as you move in when off timing things like that because it really does get you in there faster and with full power as you go under his arm and move in with everything,and your safe doing it in that senario.

There you go Chris (just what we were talking about : thats how Sam Soliman should dirive some power finishes for his style.

[Chris Nagel]

If someones non commital with a long jab keeping you at arms length for tapping scores keeping you at range or as an ariel ;I think your better off changing your first thoughts and start thinking about when it is returning home into his load position ;get your mind into that timing and follow it right home with a shot thats disguised by his movment;maybe following his elbow then looping up and over his arm and make him pay; or bodily move on it and change the action that way with a disguised first shot from underneath it or something. I like the idea of switching as you move in when off timing things like that because it really does get you in there faster and with full power as you go under his arm and move in with everything,and your safe doing it in that senario.

There you go Chris (just what we were talking about : thats how Sam Soliman should dirive some power finishes for his style.

Hah, hiding in the shadow of his arm. I like your idea of sneaking a power shot shot in before he has time to react. Seeing as this topic deals with a lot of talk about jabs, I'd like to use your idea of following his retracting hand back to set up a counter jab. Let's say our opponent throws his noncommitable jab and we follow it back with our own jab staying as close to his gloves as possible while followint it back and then catching him before he he can react. It's not as powerful as your looping counters or switching, but if you're plan is to discourage your opponent by making believe your punches are too fast then this can help.

Idk if this would be a good idea if you're focused on creating countering opportunities, but it can help if you're opponent was giving you more than you can handle.

I met a trainer on the weekend who recommended bending the left wrist a little rather than holding it rigid and using it to get around straight punches a bit - just as an unusual kind of jab.

Where I'm from everyone tries to throw everything straight but he was from the UK and had a very different style to anything I've seen before. Unusual jab but seemed handy for countering.

I thought about this too, not about curving your jab just by bending your wrist, but by curving the path that your jab travels. I think that a stance like the one that Thomas has described would allow the most flexibility when it comes to jabbing. You would be able to see your opponent's punches coming and you would be in a good position to defend and counter, while the typical stance that you see these days contradicts this and would be a perfect target for a curved jab. So I save me from explaining myself, I'm going to quote Thomas on this one:

What you first need to know is that every guard has openings. Every single one. it is up to you to find those openings. you want to first get a good understanding of the target areas of the body and the angles that lead to them. for every opening there is an invisible plane that your fist travels along like a pipeline which leads to the opening. in order to land you must put yourself in sync with the angle which leads into the opening you see. It’s very important to use dynamic punches. You will have to adjust your punches slightly shortening them or lengthening them so that you are in sync with the appropriate angle or pipeline into the body. you will also have to adjust where you are in relation to your opponent with footwork i.e. you may have to move more so to your left in order to land a left hook or more so to your right to land a right uppercut. So its important that you be able to adapt to the changes your opponent will present with his movements around the ring and with his body in general. you want to punch with the idea to get past his guard. Don’t punch just to punch. I see alot of kids just punching for the sake of punching and they will never get past a guard doing this.

Let's say for instance that you're up against a typical boxer of the square hands up high guard, often there are plenty of little openings that present itself. Jab/straight right to the solar-plexus, jabbing right between their gloves, curving your jab around their left or right gloves, and the rising jab. Your footwork also comes into play to give you the angle that you'll need to land your punch. It's your stance that gives you your options. With a good stance you'll be able to jab repeatedly, you can advance or retreat, circle left or right, pivot, sidestep, hit with either fist and see your opponent's punches coming. When your punch lands you need to aware of how your opponent responds to it. If you land a curved jab around their right hand and they react by raising their right glove to ward off your left, then you have created an opportunity to go for their liver, short ribs, or in their solar-plexus. This is what you would want to suss out before hand.

Every guard has it's opening and so does every punch that is thrown. Learning how to make your opponent miss their punches while staying within range to land your punch while being aware of the opening as it's presented is part of smart boxing. You may then want to think about how you would land your best punch, and the conditions that it requires. The big piece of it is what Grey and Thomas have often talked about is to create opportunities with your defence. There are many different ways of doing this. Go for it!

[Sharla]

You're right Chris that's exactly how this guy used it. So different from anything I've ever been taught but seemed to work very well for him. I'm still considering how much of that would be helpful for me.

This guy's coach said i was using this jab last time I sparred against the small Nigerian guy but I didn't get tape of it so I'm not sure why I did that. Maybe because he was a shorter southpaw and open to the long left hook which I thought I was throwing - perhaps my really long left hook is unco enough to look like a curved jab

I met a trainer on the weekend who recommended bending the left wrist a little rather than holding it rigid and using it to get around straight punches a bit - just as an unusual kind of jab.

Where I'm from everyone tries to throw everything straight but he was from the UK and had a very different style to anything I've seen before. Unusual jab but seemed handy for countering.

I thought about this too, not about curving your jab just by bending your wrist, but by curving the path that your jab travels. I think that a stance like the one that Thomas has described would allow the most flexibility when it comes to jabbing. You wouldn't be able to see your opponent's punches coming and you would be in a good position to defend and counter, while the typical stance that you see these days contradicts this and would be a perfect target for a curved jab.

[Chris Nagel]

There's one problem that I thought about, as you've probably heard the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. You might have also heard that a straight punch will land before a curved punch because it has less space to travel. This is just something that I'd want to keep in mind if I am to use curved jabs. Also make sure that you bring your hand back in quick straight back to its guarding position. Do not bring it back in a semi-circle as it would be that much easier for your opponent to take advantage of.

There's a hook that you can sneak in if your opponent is keeping his right glove in front aiming to catch or parry your jabs. I've heard it called a corkscrew hook, which is similar to a regular hook in it's initiation, but your fist would snap forward like a curved jab. To understand why it's been coined the corkskrew hook try this, extend your left arm forward and rotate your arm as if you were making a thumbs down sign. Look at your elbow and your arm's tendency to curve as opposed to having your elbow pointing down.

Now let's say that after you've landed a few jabs your opponent brings their right hand into position to block and parry your regular jab, now instead of throwing a curved jab you take a small step forward start to move your body like you're throwing a left hook, then at the last possible moment as you would with a regular hook you bring your elbow up, then extend your arm while rotate your arm clockwise to get around your opponent's right arm and nail them hard in the jaw.

Now if you can train this punch to flash in without warning your opponent will discouraged to throw their right cross, and you'll have another weapon in your bag of tricks. This can be added to jabbing at their right glove as Scrap has said a few times before, jabbing at their glove can break up their rhythem and tamper with their biomechanices.

Anyways getting back to curved jabs it can obviously travel along a curved path, but I think in order to get more leverage in the shot the arm would have to be straight at the moment of impact. This way if you want you can either throw a power jab to try to get your opponent to make your opponent counter, or you can just snap it out quick to create openings. There's a lot to think about. I remember watching Sam Soliman last night and saw that he'd miss a punch only to immediately throw another punch that lands. Now if you'd like to be sneaky you can make your opponent think you missed with a regular jab that's apparenty off target, then at the last moment you curve your hand around their guard and catch them unexpected. As your opponent reacts to your punch landing you should be prepared for their reactions and the openings that come with it.

It's just some stuff to think about.

[Sharla]

Yeah - the jab sounds so simple but there's a lot to it if you really want to get into all the details. Fakes can be pretty effective too. I've found fakes good against people that wait for me to punch so they can grab me and lean on me - which I hate.

[Scrap]

If you bend the wrist it relaxs the elbow for speed the response from the nerves makes the elbow faster. Its the elbow that governs the movement Feel.

[Lords Gym]

in my humble opinion bending the wrist when throwing any punch is risky business. could lead to a sprain or even a fracture. I make a point to keep the wrist str8 on impact..

intresting point of view scrap cc.

[donnydarkoIRL]

in my humble opinion bending the wrist when throwing any punch is risky business. could lead to a sprain or even a fracture. I make a point to keep the wrist str8 on impact..

intresting point of view scrap.

Im with Lords, i remember in my early dayz sparring n my wrist would be in agony so i trained it to be perfectly straight at all times except for parrying. But i reckon scraps method could work if u turned ur fists properly before impact.