Did that fight really make people believe that Manny will be able to beat Floyd?

[Andre]

I remember after Floyd beat Marquez people were starting to retract their belief that Manny would just run rampant on Floyd if they fought. Then Manny faced COtto and Clottey and that instilled the same enthusiasm in his fans until Floyd beat up Mosley whom many felt both Manny and Floyd were ducking. THen Manny faced the guy who Floyd has been given the most flack for not fighting in Antonio Margarito, and Manny has looked great, but does anyone think that Floyd wouldn't have pitched an absolute shut out against a guy as ordinary in skill as Antonio?

To me Manny has been hand fed the same makeup of opponent since moving up in weight. They have given him guys who allow Manny to make the most of his style and his speed. Diaz, ODLH(weight-drained), Hatton, Cotto, CLottey, and Margarito are all guys who come forward, and with the exception of a younger Oscar and Clottey they are all easy to hit. I will be the first to give Manny credit for looking absolutely amazing and being so tireless in training so that he could give the kind of performances he did, but these were all guys right there in front of him, and when anyone stands just right there in front of Manny they are going to lose. The one guy actually of all of them that was IMO the most impressive win for Manny was against Hatton, because he actually has fast footwork and he uses angles coming in, but he couldn't overcome those huge mistakes that he makes against southpaws in particular, and Manny was the absolutely antithesis of the type of guy hatton could get away with those mistakes again. But these guys made Manny look like a non-stop punching machine with power, counter punching ability, a great chin, and great footwork, but I would like to disagree to a certain extent this belief. I think it's curious that Manny was able to throw more punches than he ever did earlier in his career against guys so much bigger than him, but then I looked a little more closely. Manny's angles, combinations all came when his opponents were rooted to the ground. When Manny was dancing around these guys, they were simply following him, and standing their ground. Manny was basically given a punching bag that followed him around, and nobody looks faster or better on a heavybag than Manny Pacquiao. Go back and watch Pacquiao-marquez II and see Marquez either beat Manny to the punch with his right hand or take a step back to get just out of range of Manny's attack. This is from a guy who isn't even a particularly good defensive fighter, but he had a antidote to Manny's offense that looked so relentless against Morales two fights earlier, and watch Barrera go against Manny the second time. Or Jorge Solis, watch how that movement took away Manny's punch output.

Now I think Floyd would mostly come forward against Manny, but I think it would be in a similar way he did against Judah. I don't think he would be particularly lead leg heavy, and he would stay light on his feet so if Manny tried to come in with a combination that he could move away quickly and wait for Manny to be off balance before coming in, but I think he would also use similar tactics as Marquez and beat Manny to the punch because Manny kind of drops his hands before he ever throws punches in bunches, and a guy like Floyd could tee off on that. Furthermore watch how good offensively Mosley looked against Margarito, he looked amazingly fast, well conditioned, etc, etc. Even at the advanced stage of his career, but Floyd negated him, not because he was physically faster than Mosley as much as he was so much sharper in the ring. Now I saw Manny look great throwing punches at Margarito, Cotto, CLottey, etc, but I also saw Manny getting hit by punches on the outside, he is an amazing combination puncher, but he isn't the greatest boxer on the outside, and I think all it take is movement to dissipate Manny's offensive combinations, and then you have Manny at his weakest element and that's trying to box like Mayweather, Leonard, RJJ, Hopkins do. Take away his output and he is like any other fast fighter that isn't "different". What makes Manny different is his speed and power combined with his stamina. Floyd arguably has better stamina and vastly superior technique with the same speed. We've seen Manny exploited in the fact that he lacks true technique and I don't think his recent fights have forced him to change that. In fact I think his sparring in preparation for this fight prove that if Manny isn't at his fastest that he has a hard time with relatively ordinary fighters. Whereas a guy with really great technique can adapt way easier to variables in the ring.

So why is Floyd not wanting to fight Manny?

[generalbulldog]

I remember after Floyd beat Marquez people were starting to retract their belief that Manny would just run rampant on Floyd if they fought. Then Manny faced COtto and Clottey and that instilled the same enthusiasm in his fans until Floyd beat up Mosley whom many felt both Manny and Floyd were ducking. THen Manny faced the guy who Floyd has been given the most flack for not fighting in Antonio Margarito, and Manny has looked great, but does anyone think that Floyd wouldn't have pitched an absolute shut out against a guy as ordinary in skill as Antonio?

To me Manny has been hand fed the same makeup of opponent since moving up in weight. They have given him guys who allow Manny to make the most of his style and his speed. Diaz, ODLH(weight-drained), Hatton, Cotto, CLottey, and Margarito are all guys who come forward, and with the exception of a younger Oscar and Clottey they are all easy to hit. I will be the first to give Manny credit for looking absolutely amazing and being so tireless in training so that he could give the kind of performances he did, but these were all guys right there in front of him, and when anyone stands just right there in front of Manny they are going to lose. The one guy actually of all of them that was IMO the most impressive win for Manny was against Hatton, because he actually has fast footwork and he uses angles coming in, but he couldn't overcome those huge mistakes that he makes against southpaws in particular, and Manny was the absolutely antithesis of the type of guy hatton could get away with those mistakes again. But these guys made Manny look like a non-stop punching machine with power, counter punching ability, a great chin, and great footwork, but I would like to disagree to a certain extent this belief. I think it's curious that Manny was able to throw more punches than he ever did earlier in his career against guys so much bigger than him, but then I looked a little more closely. Manny's angles, combinations all came when his opponents were rooted to the ground. When Manny was dancing around these guys, they were simply following him, and standing their ground. Manny was basically given a punching bag that followed him around, and nobody looks faster or better on a heavybag than Manny Pacquiao. Go back and watch Pacquiao-marquez II and see Marquez either beat Manny to the punch with his right hand or take a step back to get just out of range of Manny's attack. This is from a guy who isn't even a particularly good defensive fighter, but he had a antidote to Manny's offense that looked so relentless against Morales two fights earlier, and watch Barrera go against Manny the second time. Or Jorge Solis, watch how that movement took away Manny's punch output.

Now I think Floyd would mostly come forward against Manny, but I think it would be in a similar way he did against Judah. I don't think he would be particularly lead leg heavy, and he would stay light on his feet so if Manny tried to come in with a combination that he could move away quickly and wait for Manny to be off balance before coming in, but I think he would also use similar tactics as Marquez and beat Manny to the punch because Manny kind of drops his hands before he ever throws punches in bunches, and a guy like Floyd could tee off on that. Furthermore watch how good offensively Mosley looked against Margarito, he looked amazingly fast, well conditioned, etc, etc. Even at the advanced stage of his career, but Floyd negated him, not because he was physically faster than Mosley as much as he was so much sharper in the ring. Now I saw Manny look great throwing punches at Margarito, Cotto, CLottey, etc, but I also saw Manny getting hit by punches on the outside, he is an amazing combination puncher, but he isn't the greatest boxer on the outside, and I think all it take is movement to dissipate Manny's offensive combinations, and then you have Manny at his weakest element and that's trying to box like Mayweather, Leonard, RJJ, Hopkins do. Take away his output and he is like any other fast fighter that isn't "different". What makes Manny different is his speed and power combined with his stamina. Floyd arguably has better stamina and vastly superior technique with the same speed. We've seen Manny exploited in the fact that he lacks true technique and I don't think his recent fights have forced him to change that. In fact I think his sparring in preparation for this fight prove that if Manny isn't at his fastest that he has a hard time with relatively ordinary fighters. Whereas a guy with really great technique can adapt way easier to variables in the ring.

So why is Floyd not wanting to fight Manny?

It's because Manny is on A-side meth.

[Andre]

No, because Margarito is nothing like Floyd. Who cares though? We will see Manny fight again before we see him fight Floyd. I bet against Shane and this last fight did convince me that he will beat Shane.

Agreed, Shane wont only be in front of him he'll come forward fully committed and without angles of reply he is doomed. Floyd has the answers ,has he the balls?

[hardcore_crash]

If anything, I am just so shocked at how Pacquiao's endurance and "natural" stamina did not seem to lose any pop after hundreds and hundreds of power punches thrown over thirty plus minutes.

[zhubin]

Taeth...great posts man. I am in awe at how much people are drinking the Pac kool aid. I have always been critical of Floyd's resume...but there is no question that he is the most gifted pure boxer in the sport. Bottom line for me...the last great, prime fighter Manny faced was Marquez. Juan showed how an intelligent and skilled fighter can exploit Manny. But the incredible hype on Pac has been based on his recent fights. These are all fighters that had big question marks going into their duel with Pac...but more importantly...they where handpicked because Pac had a CLEAR speed advantage. Despite that...Manny has still shown (even last night) that his defense is filled with holes. While his flurry of punches and action packed style is exciting...it can be tremendously exploited by a fighter that is skilled and fast. People keep pointing out that because Pac can take a punch from a bigger guy...this somehow translates to how will do against Floyd. Or better yet...because he can land combos on bums like Margo...he will do the same to Floyd?! Wake up sheep!!! It's easy to hit a slow, stationary target that comes forward. It's a whole other thing to hit probably the greatest defensive fighter of all time. Pac can fight one way. Floyd can adapt to anything. Floyd will do what Marquez did except 100 times more effectively. Mayweather will be content on picking Pac apart with laser like precision. He could care less about a brawl or war. He will put on a master class. But for some of you...you think a big win over a one dimensional, slow as molasses cheater is evidence of Pac winning??!!! Sure thing.

[El Kabong]

Marquez could also take a punch....Floyd, not so much

[Mr140]

Mayweather while out box Manny like he does anyone else, beating Margarito doesn't change thing. I mean come on Mosley beat Margarito quicker Manny did so not like he did anything special.

[El Kabong]

Mayweather while out box Manny like he does anyone else, beating Margarito doesn't change thing. I mean come on Mosley beat Margarito quicker Manny did so not like he did anything special.

Well if it was no big deal then of course Floyd will be more than willing to fight Manny to make the big time money that fight offers.

[:::PSL:::]

Mayweather while out box Manny like he does anyone else, beating Margarito doesn't change thing. I mean come on Mosley beat Margarito quicker Manny did so not like he did anything special.

He deformed Marg's face. That's special enough to me.

[JonesJrMayweather]

Marquez could also take a punch....Floyd, not so much

Which fight was is where floyd was floored or out out on his feet?

[Majesty]

Actually, it's more like... that fight made most people believe Floyd shit his pants last night.

So why would Pacquiao beating Margarito make Floyd more scared of him. When what Mosley did to Margarito was worse and he actually knocked him out and didn't get hit as much as Pacquiao did. Mosley dominated Margarito in a worse way then Pacquiao did and that didn't stop Floyd from fighting him. So why suddenly would Pacquiao beating Margarito make Floyd not want to fight him? I don't get the logic there.

Mayweather while out box Manny like he does anyone else, beating Margarito doesn't change thing. I mean come on Mosley beat Margarito quicker Manny did so not like he did anything special.

He deformed Marg's face. That's special enough to me.

more special then not taking any punishment and knocking him out?

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

I just think it would be an awesome fight.

Every time either on of em fight, it's like we've forgotten what awesome physical specimen's they both are!

[:::PSL:::]

Actually, it's more like... that fight made most people believe Floyd shit his pants last night.

So why would Pacquiao beating Margarito make Floyd more scared of him. When what Mosley did to Margarito was worse and he actually knocked him out and didn't get hit as much as Pacquiao did. Mosley dominated Margarito in a worse way then Pacquiao did and that didn't stop Floyd from fighting him. So why suddenly would Pacquiao beating Margarito make Floyd not want to fight him? I don't get the logic there.

Mayweather while out box Manny like he does anyone else, beating Margarito doesn't change thing. I mean come on Mosley beat Margarito quicker Manny did so not like he did anything special.

He deformed Marg's face. That's special enough to me.

more special then not taking any punishment and knocking him out?

Ofcourse. Pac broke Marg's facial bone. Pac inflicted more damage to Marg than Mosely did. The fight should've stopped 2 rounds early. Did you see Pac gesture when he looked at the ref? He had sympathy for him. He basically stopped punishing Marg. He could've knocked him out, but he chose not to.

[TitoFan]

I wanted a devastating KO, but Pac has more compassion than I do.

[Julius Rain]

I wanted a devastating KO, but Pac has more compassion than I do.

I wanted an early KO, then I realize 12 rounds of punishment from pac is better