Is Mayweather a all time great?

[powerpuncher]

@Beanflicker - I don't think you should be too surprised that there people who view Mayweather's accomplishments as not quite at the same level as you might view them. There's no doubt he is a first ballot inductee to the Hall of Fame. There's also no doubt that in the last 25 years he is one of the top three boxers to fight. There's an aura, however, about some of historical fighters that eludes Mayweather.

Take Duran. Duran started out as a lightweight, moved on to welterweight, middleweight and then super middleweight. He fought Hagler, Hearns and Barkley at middleweight. I don't rate Martinez/GGG on the level of Hagler at middleweight, but it would be the equivalent of Mayweather moving up to middleweight and facing that type of competition. Keep in mind Duran was only 5'7. Those are risky fights for a guy his size. That kind of risk-taking endeared him to boxing fans and boxing historians. There is the impression that Mayweather hasn't taken those type of risks. He also isn't retired yet so let's withhold judgment.

Take Harry Greb too. I wrote a long post in another thread briefly explaining Greb's greatness that I'm not sure you had a chance to respond to. You'll see that in one year, not even his best year, he fought 4 future Hall of Famers when they were on their game, not post-prime, and 10 other title holder- level opponents. That's outright crazy. Times are different now, but still.

How many guys on Mayweather's CV will make the Hall of Fame and did Mayweather face them at their best? The Hall of Fame measure is subjective, but we can use it as a gauge.

Also, at this point, who would you say is Mayweather's signature victory when he was on top his game and the guy on the other side of the ring was on top of his game? Duran's Leonard. Tunney's Dempsey. etc. How would you compare that victory to the best victory of the greats?

Just so we're clear, throughout 2007-2011, there was this phenomenon that you either were a fan of Mayweather or Pacquiao, but not both. I don't subscribe to that idea. I like both guys. In my opinion, they're both greats.

i agree with your reply but i would say that de la hoya was mayweathers defining victory. that was really when he went from a super talented fighter that people heard about to a superstar. its debatable how impressive the victory was but i would say that it was his most defining victory and i would consider it a very good win at that.

[p4pking]

Considering which posters are arguing against the case, it's pretty hard to do anything but chuckle at their trolling or wonder how anyone is that dumb. It IS a completely absurd question to ask though. If Floyd loses a fight will we be debating whether he's among the 10 best fighters since 2003? Like get fucking real some of you. Where you rank him relative to anyone else is fine to argue over, but whether he is an ATG period? Just

[Xwetie]

[Max Power]

I'm sorry but Floyd Mayweather Jr. not an ATG is beyond reason. He is scum.. But that's one talented and brilliant piece of scum lol.

[Andre]

I think he is one and of all boxers in all eras he is without doubt The all time greatest richest stinking poser too,but that could be a play too, so could his victory speech on Sunday be a play to bolster respect in his final few fights by turning somewhat humble towards his rivals. But since my doubts about him surviving a war have been put to rest a couple of times and I've also seen him dissolve all the skills of my favorite modern day fighter JMM,you know the rest I wont go on.You can say he has ducked a few or maneuvered his road to greatness,They all do it. I dont care because (including Kostya who is my other favorite modern day fighter next to Roy); None of the people who his haters think he has ducked haven't maneuvered their own careers and they also havent achieved the same heights as Floyd.Floyds been given the nod in a close one too that I think he just lost, but he got that back for real no problem anyway.Kostya is the one who Im not sure he would of got past in that small time slot when he jumped 140 more because of Floyds troublesome hands and I didnt know how sturdy his chin actually was until recently.
I think he could of spoiled his way to a win by bending in the wind cause he wasnt going to be Ko-ing KT no way.

[fan johnny]

@Beanflicker - I don't think you should be too surprised that there people who view Mayweather's accomplishments as not quite at the same level as you might view them. There's no doubt he is a first ballot inductee to the Hall of Fame. There's also no doubt that in the last 25 years he is one of the top three boxers to fight. There's an aura, however, about some of historical fighters that eludes Mayweather.

Take Duran. Duran started out as a lightweight, moved on to welterweight, middleweight and then super middleweight. He fought Hagler, Hearns and Barkley at middleweight. I don't rate Martinez/GGG on the level of Hagler at middleweight, but it would be the equivalent of Mayweather moving up to middleweight and facing that type of competition. Keep in mind Duran was only 5'7. Those are risky fights for a guy his size. That kind of risk-taking endeared him to boxing fans and boxing historians. There is the impression that Mayweather hasn't taken those type of risks. He also isn't retired yet so let's withhold judgment.

Take Harry Greb too. I wrote a long post in another thread briefly explaining Greb's greatness that I'm not sure you had a chance to respond to. You'll see that in one year, not even his best year, he fought 4 future Hall of Famers when they were on their game, not post-prime, and 10 other title holder- level opponents. That's outright crazy. Times are different now, but still.

How many guys on Mayweather's CV will make the Hall of Fame and did Mayweather face them at their best? The Hall of Fame measure is subjective, but we can use it as a gauge.

Also, at this point, who would you say is Mayweather's signature victory when he was on top his game and the guy on the other side of the ring was on top of his game? Duran's Leonard. Tunney's Dempsey. etc. How would you compare that victory to the best victory of the greats?

Just so we're clear, throughout 2007-2011, there was this phenomenon that you either were a fan of Mayweather or Pacquiao, but not both. I don't subscribe to that idea. I like both guys. In my opinion, they're both greats.

Great Post!

Mayweather will go down in the record books as the most "calculated" boxer in the history of the sport both in and out of the ring, unless he ends up blowing his money.

[Freedom]

Mayweather may have had the ability to become an ATG, but avoided too many prime fighters along the way and cherry-picked limited (Baldomir, Mitchell, etc) or faded (Oscar, Mosley, Hernandez, etc) opponents.

He avoided:

prime Cotto
prime Mosley
prime De La Hoya
Kostya Tszyu
Vernon Forrest
Paul Williams
Antonio Margarito
Manny Pacquiao

Floyd decided to "retire" when the welterweight division was at it's best in 2007-2009 with Cotto, Margarito, Williams, Mosley, etc.

[Ron Swanson]

[QUOTE=Freedom;1243763]Mayweather may have had the ability to become an ATG, but avoided too many prime fighters along the way and cherry-picked limited (Baldomir, Mitchell, etc) or faded (Oscar, Mosley, Hernandez, etc) opponents.

He avoided:

prime Cotto(Floyd said he wanted. 10 mill and it was on, Bob said no. It's in Dan Rafaels archives. Bob said the money wasn't there so Floyd faught him when Bob was out of the picture for 40 million. Really think about what Bob said and what happened and who was the hindrance)
prime Mosley(Floyd offered Shane 8 million to fight Shane said he had a toothache err needed a vacation and turned around and fought one month later for less than 2 million. Who was the hindance there)
prime De La Hoya(Floyd from the beginning of his career always begged for this fight)
Kostya Tszyu(tough to make with HBO/Showtime issue, neither was big enough then to force a collaboration)
Vernon Forrest(never in same division)
Paul Williams(okay, I'll give you this one although I think PWs rise in the WW division and departure from happened while Floyd was gone but I'm not sure)
Antonio Margarito(hahaha but for the record see Cotto, Floyd gave Bob an amount and Bob said no. Same Dan Rafael archive can prove it)
Manny Pacquiao(Floyd agreed and Pac backed out. Both of these two are to blame over this fiasco but you can never take away the fact that the fight was once on and Floyd was good to go at the exact time the fight was right Floyd was in. That's not opinion that's a fact)

[Rantcatrat]

[QUOTE=Ron Swanson;1243770]

Mayweather may have had the ability to become an ATG, but avoided too many prime fighters along the way and cherry-picked limited (Baldomir, Mitchell, etc) or faded (Oscar, Mosley, Hernandez, etc) opponents.

He avoided:

prime Cotto(Floyd said he wanted. 10 mill and it was on, Bob said no. It's in Dan Rafaels archives. Bob said the money wasn't there so Floyd faught him when Bob was out of the picture for 40 million. Really think about what Bob said and what happened and who was the hindrance)
prime Mosley(Floyd offered Shane 8 million to fight Shane said he had a toothache err needed a vacation and turned around and fought one month later for less than 2 million. Who was the hindance there)
prime De La Hoya(Floyd from the beginning of his career always begged for this fight)
Kostya Tszyu(tough to make with HBO/Showtime issue, neither was big enough then to force a collaboration)
Vernon Forrest(never in same division)
Paul Williams(okay, I'll give you this one although I think PWs rise in the WW division and departure from happened while Floyd was gone but I'm not sure)
Antonio Margarito(hahaha but for the record see Cotto, Floyd gave Bob an amount and Bob said no. Same Dan Rafael archive can prove it)
Manny Pacquiao(Floyd agreed and Pac backed out. Both of these two are to blame over this fiasco but you can never take away the fact that the fight was once on and Floyd was good to go at the exact time the fight was right Floyd was in. That's not opinion that's a fact)

I disagree with the avoided concept for Floyd's career. It's more accurate to describe it as missed. Avoided implies it was all Floyd's fault, which it might have been with some of the opponents, but it wasn't with all of them.

Floyd missed everyone on that list though for one reason or the other.

I'm not sure why the reason isn't pretty obvious: He's had Bob Arum or Al Haymon guiding his career at all times. They've done a terrific job. How many famous boxers die penniless? Floyd's the richest athlete in the world and he has no endorsements in a niche sport. That's crazy talk.

[bradlee180]

Richest athlete in the world doesn't mean much.

Mike Tyson and Holyfield are broke, lost it all, and they had endorsements on top of massive ring-earnings. And Mayweather has already had his tax issues on a couple of occasions. Tyson grossed about 350 million in purses alone.

And the same applies to many NFL and NBA athletes too.

It turns out that child-support payments breaks many athletes, often an athlete paying 5 or more women because he was poking everything that moved!

Holyfield with 12 kids by 6 women, ahah hah!

[VG_Addict]

Floyd's performance at 130 alone makes him an ATG.

He's a top 5 all time at 130.

[C.J.Rock]

What is this some sort of sick joke?

Floyd is not only an ATG but one of the greatest there's ever been in this sport. Beyond any real doubt.

Saying that Floyd is an ATG & one of the best ever IS a sick joke
What other supposed world champion boxers Daddy has said publically " I will not let my son fight that fighter because his health comes before money , titles etc "
Mayweather is a wussy little schoolgirl an ATG boxer ROFLMAO No Way Jose

[Ron Swanson]

Dude has been fighting at the championship level for 17 years. If you don't see the significance of that you should probably remove your return key.

[powerpuncher]

Richest athlete in the world doesn't mean much.

Mike Tyson and Holyfield are broke, lost it all, and they had endorsements on top of massive ring-earnings. And Mayweather has already had his tax issues on a couple of occasions. Tyson grossed about 350 million in purses alone.

And the same applies to many NFL and NBA athletes too.

It turns out that child-support payments breaks many athletes, often an athlete paying 5 or more women because he was poking everything that moved!

Holyfield with 12 kids by 6 women, ahah hah!

the difference is that someone like tyson would blow all of his money right after a fight. even though floyd may be stupid in some respects, he seems pretty business savvy. i dont really see him going broke. he is super rich and has a lot of connections. IMO i believe that his promotional company will boom once he retires.

[Max Power]

Dude has been fighting at the championship level for 17 years. If you don't see the significance of that you should probably remove your return key.

Actually I am forced to agree with you atleast here. C.J. is an imbecile I am afraid.

Even if all allegations are true of Floyd it's clear. He's among the GOAT's.

Show me a fighter with better defensive/countering abilities combined with athleticism such as Mayweather? Non-existent!