Psychological Greats

[Master]

There is an article in Boxing Monthly where it says B Hop came deliberately at 156lb, 2lb under the agreed weight to have a psychological advantage against Oscar De La Hoya. Oscar said he never realised that but there is a picture of Mayweather Snr looking in disbelief at the weight. Hopkins said the other camp thought he had over trained and that Oscar took him lightly because he started coming in and fighting which led to the body shot that stopped Golden boy.

[brocktonblockbust]

Yeah Foreman dıd ıt ın a weırd way dıdnt he. Just how could that clubber be subtle, I dont know, but he seemed to ınfluence referees especıally, got away wıth alot of pushıng and never lost a poınt.

[Ron Swanson]

This psychological stuff is viewed wrong. Yes Hopkins pulled some nice stunts but any way you look at it he was going to box the WW great Tito to bits. Any way you look at it he was going to beat Holmes. You see evidence that the result is actually drawn from the result by someone saying it didn't work against Calzaghe. The difference wasn't the psychological war, it was the opponent.People say he won this fight so that psychological stuff must have worked or he lost so it must not have. When it was never about that.

Psychological war is fought in small details. Make a guy think about your straight right when your gameplan revolves around the left hook. If a guy has stamina issues make him think about that, nothing taxes the body like nerves. Or maybe they fight at a slower pace.

Drawing conclusions from the result is faulty, look at the action. Don't look at the whole, was a detail effected and capitalized on. We fans want to make dramatic all encompassing statements. To make these statements we stretch small factors into deciding factors.

That is a stretch Ron. Again, Hop had everyone, including Tito, looking for a back alley brawl and came out and put on a clinic. You can try and downplay it all you want, but ANYONE who followed the sport at that time was shocked at Hopkins fighting like that. Shocked.

As for looking at the small things, I used the example of Pascal in the rematch. If you don't think it messed with Pascals mind to have Hop constantly discuss Pascals stamina issues, you're crazy. Pascal was mentally exhausted by the 10th round. Again, the most impressive part of Hops mind games is how he uses them on judges n refs with success as well.

First, I wasn't surprised by how Hop fought in the least. The only aspect that was a surprise to me was how clean he fought.

As for your second part, did you read my post? I spoke about how you definitely call attention to stamina issues.

I don't think he's had much success tricking judges. I can't think of one fight he should have lost but was awarded but I can think of multiple he might have actually won but wasn't awarded.

[Master]

What can Bernard Hopkins do to psychologically get to Kovalev?

[mikeeod]

[QUOTE=Master;1272986]What can Bernard Hopkins do to psychologically get to Kovalev?[/

I see the following factors possibly affecting Kov mentally:

1) Hops "thug" aura: I have been told on more than one occasion that many Europeans, because of movies/tv...etc., have the perspective that American ex-cons are killers. Kov seems like a thug himself, but Bernard carries himself in a way that intimidates many fighters (think Pavilik and Tarver), even though he isn't a knockout artist at this point. This isn't always the case, as was proven by Calzaghe, although I do feel that Joe was hesitant and scared the first few rounds.
2) Too much respect for a legend: in reading some of Kovs comments, he has already stated that if he loses the fight, it won't be all bad as he will learn so much during the fight. It doesn't usually turn out well for the guy who isn't sure if he can win or lose.
3) The magnitude of the fight: This will be a HUGE event, by far Kovs biggest and most important. I think that will weigh heavily on his mind and it will be interesting to see how it turns out for him.

[Spicoli]

May have been a one, two time thing but Bramble leading into Mancini looked to have an effect on Ray. Some of it was low but the press ate it up and Mancini def came off shook in the 1st fight.

[Bill Paxtom]

Larry Holmes to Muhammad Ali >

'Nobody understands a word you're saying. You're embarrassing yourself Old Man."

"Ali tells the World that he's fighting for them, the little people. Bullshit. He has 4 Homes,
3 Rolls Royce cars, a Bentley and a Boat. He even has a Mack Dump Truck that he doesn't
even know how to drive."

"Ask Ali if any of those little people can come visit him. The man is a Phoney. A 100% Fraud
made of Rayon."

"He needs a beating, and I'm here to do it for the real little people."

Muhammad Ali was completely psyched out.

[Master]

Larry Holmes to Muhammad Ali >

'Nobody understands a word you're saying. You're embarrassing yourself Old Man."

"Ali tells the World that he's fighting for them, the little people. Bullshit. He has 4 Homes,
3 Rolls Royce cars, a Bentley and a Boat. He even has a Mack Dump Truck that he doesn't
even know how to drive."

"Ask Ali if any of those little people can come visit him. The man is a Phoney. A 100% Fraud
made of Rayon."

"He needs a beating, and I'm here to do it for the real little people."

Muhammad Ali was completely psyched out.

You are the only person psyched out by Ali.

Holmes got his when he was smashed by Tyson. Circle of boxing life.

[mikeeod]

This psychological stuff is viewed wrong. Yes Hopkins pulled some nice stunts but any way you look at it he was going to box the WW great Tito to bits. Any way you look at it he was going to beat Holmes. You see evidence that the result is actually drawn from the result by someone saying it didn't work against Calzaghe. The difference wasn't the psychological war, it was the opponent.People say he won this fight so that psychological stuff must have worked or he lost so it must not have. When it was never about that.

Psychological war is fought in small details. Make a guy think about your straight right when your gameplan revolves around the left hook. If a guy has stamina issues make him think about that, nothing taxes the body like nerves. Or maybe they fight at a slower pace.

Drawing conclusions from the result is faulty, look at the action. Don't look at the whole, was a detail effected and capitalized on. We fans want to make dramatic all encompassing statements. To make these statements we stretch small factors into deciding factors.

That is a stretch Ron. Again, Hop had everyone, including Tito, looking for a back alley brawl and came out and put on a clinic. You can try and downplay it all you want, but ANYONE who followed the sport at that time was shocked at Hopkins fighting like that. Shocked.

As for looking at the small things, I used the example of Pascal in the rematch. If you don't think it messed with Pascals mind to have Hop constantly discuss Pascals stamina issues, you're crazy. Pascal was mentally exhausted by the 10th round. Again, the most impressive part of Hops mind games is how he uses them on judges n refs with success as well.

First, I wasn't surprised by how Hop fought in the least. The only aspect that was a surprise to me was how clean he fought.

As for your second part, did you read my post? I spoke about how you definitely call attention to stamina issues.

I don't think he's had much success tricking judges. I can't think of one fight he should have lost but was awarded but I can think of multiple he might have actually won but wasn't awarded.

Well, it's good that u weren't fooled Ron, because pretty much everyone else was, especially Tito and his daddy, who were the intended targets of Hop's deception. As for judges not responding, there is an article that came out after Hop's win over Pascal where the guy is ranting about how the judges let Hop get in their heads and set the conditions to get any and all rounds. I will try and find a link for u later if I have time.

Sorry I misunderstood ur agreeing with me. Must have read it wrong.

[Master]

[QUOTE=Master;1273080][QUOTE=mikeeod;1273018]

What can Bernard Hopkins do to psychologically get to Kovalev?[/

I see the following factors possibly affecting Kov mentally:

1) Hops "thug" aura: I have been told on more than one occasion that many Europeans, because of movies/tv...etc., have the perspective that American ex-cons are killers. Kov seems like a thug himself, but Bernard carries himself in a way that intimidates many fighters (think Pavilik and Tarver), even though he isn't a knockout artist at this point. This isn't always the case, as was proven by Calzaghe, although I do feel that Joe was hesitant and scared the first few rounds.
2) Too much respect for a legend: in reading some of Kovs comments, he has already stated that if he loses the fight, it won't be all bad as he will learn so much during the fight. It doesn't usually turn out well for the guy who isn't sure if he can win or lose.
3) The magnitude of the fight: This will be a HUGE event, by far Kovs biggest and most important. I think that will weigh heavily on his mind and it will be interesting to see how it turns out for him.

Kov has a mean streak, just look at what he did to the crowd against Cleverly and when he was about to stop him he stuck his hips out. Kov looks a mean man which even Hopkins would not want to annoy so I think Hopkins will play it polite and diplomatic with Kov. Who wants to mess with the Russian Mafia?

[mikeeod]

[QUOTE=Master;1273081][QUOTE=Master;1273080]

What can Bernard Hopkins do to psychologically get to Kovalev?[/

I see the following factors possibly affecting Kov mentally:

1) Hops "thug" aura: I have been told on more than one occasion that many Europeans, because of movies/tv...etc., have the perspective that American ex-cons are killers. Kov seems like a thug himself, but Bernard carries himself in a way that intimidates many fighters (think Pavilik and Tarver), even though he isn't a knockout artist at this point. This isn't always the case, as was proven by Calzaghe, although I do feel that Joe was hesitant and scared the first few rounds.
2) Too much respect for a legend: in reading some of Kovs comments, he has already stated that if he loses the fight, it won't be all bad as he will learn so much during the fight. It doesn't usually turn out well for the guy who isn't sure if he can win or lose.
3) The magnitude of the fight: This will be a HUGE event, by far Kovs biggest and most important. I think that will weigh heavily on his mind and it will be interesting to see how it turns out for him.

Kov has a mean streak, just look at what he did to the crowd against Cleverly and when he was about to stop him he stuck his hips out. Kov looks a mean man which even Hopkins would not want to annoy so I think Hopkins will play it polite and diplomatic with Kov. Who wants to mess with the Russian Mafia?

U have a valid point, and I was thinking the same thing about Kov being a mean cat. I think he is. I also think that bully mentalities and personalities like that have issues with Bernard. Something about his confidence and the way he comes off unsettles them.

Think of Tito, Tarver, Cloud, Pavilik...etc., and how those guys were coming into that fight and how their demeanor changed during the fight. It's like they come in as destroyers, used to guys being scared of their power and scared of them and then find Hop who acts like they aren't anything he hasn't seen. He engages them in a way that makes them uncomfortable and he seems so damn relaxed, like the last worry on his mind is his chin failing him. After a couple of rounds they become a little hesitant, because they haven't shaken him or made him uncomfortable in the slightest, and he has actually walked them into a good shot or two. He is dirty and talking to them, and u can feel his will, his drive to win that fight and willingness to take ur best to do it. By the fourth or fifth round, those guys don't look like destroyers anymore, they look broken. Like they just want it over with and want to survive. I have a feeling Kov will follow a similar route in their fight next month. We will see....

[Master]

[QUOTE=mikeeod;1273094][QUOTE=Master;1273081]

What can Bernard Hopkins do to psychologically get to Kovalev?[/

I see the following factors possibly affecting Kov mentally:

1) Hops "thug" aura: I have been told on more than one occasion that many Europeans, because of movies/tv...etc., have the perspective that American ex-cons are killers. Kov seems like a thug himself, but Bernard carries himself in a way that intimidates many fighters (think Pavilik and Tarver), even though he isn't a knockout artist at this point. This isn't always the case, as was proven by Calzaghe, although I do feel that Joe was hesitant and scared the first few rounds.
2) Too much respect for a legend: in reading some of Kovs comments, he has already stated that if he loses the fight, it won't be all bad as he will learn so much during the fight. It doesn't usually turn out well for the guy who isn't sure if he can win or lose.
3) The magnitude of the fight: This will be a HUGE event, by far Kovs biggest and most important. I think that will weigh heavily on his mind and it will be interesting to see how it turns out for him.

Kov has a mean streak, just look at what he did to the crowd against Cleverly and when he was about to stop him he stuck his hips out. Kov looks a mean man which even Hopkins would not want to annoy so I think Hopkins will play it polite and diplomatic with Kov. Who wants to mess with the Russian Mafia?

U have a valid point, and I was thinking the same thing about Kov being a mean cat. I think he is. I also think that bully mentalities and personalities like that have issues with Bernard. Something about his confidence and the way he comes off unsettles them.

Think of Tito, Tarver, Cloud, Pavilik...etc., and how those guys were coming into that fight and how their demeanor changed during the fight. It's like they come in as destroyers, used to guys being scared of their power and scared of them and then find Hop who acts like they aren't anything he hasn't seen. He engages them in a way that makes them uncomfortable and he seems so damn relaxed, like the last worry on his mind is his chin failing him. After a couple of rounds they become a little hesitant, because they haven't shaken him or made him uncomfortable in the slightest, and he has actually walked them into a good shot or two. He is dirty and talking to them, and u can feel his will, his drive to win that fight and willingness to take ur best to do it. By the fourth or fifth round, those guys don't look like destroyers anymore, they look broken. Like they just want it over with and want to survive. I have a feeling Kov will follow a similar route in their fight next month. We will see....

Kov is relaxed with his power and always dangerous, the fight is very intriguing and I keep on changing my mind on who I think will win.

[Bill Paxtom]

Alfredo Evangelista

To Muhammad Ali >

"You act like a child. You're supposed to be the Heavyweight Champion, not a clown."

"Grow up, and act like a Professional. Save the jokes for Henny Youngman."

The Press then laughed at Muhammad.

Muhammad was schooled in wit by a 21 year-old Uruguayan.

[Master]

Alfredo Evangelista

To Muhammad Ali >

"You act like a child. You're supposed to be the Heavyweight Champion, not a clown."

"Grow up, and act like a Professional. Save the jokes for Henny Youngman."

The Press then laughed at Muhammad.

Muhammad was schooled in wit by a 21 year-old Uruguayan.

...and the 37 year old Muhammad schooled the 21 year-old Uruguayan in the ring.

[Bill Paxtom]

Yes,

That was an impressive performance by Grandpa Muhammad Ali.

That Muhammad Ali was 'funny guy'.