Manny Pacquao, How great is he???

[Violent Demise]

I have to agree with Ice. He is a great fighter but somehwhat overrated. A lot of people are blinded by the De La Hoya and Hatton fights and forget what Marquez did to him.

He is by no means invincible or any shiit like that, I think Mayweather beats him. And there are also question marks over Cotto. I mean how much did Margarito take out of him. Look at how he looked in the Clottey fight. I don't think Pacquiao will gain massive amounts of great credit if he beats Cotto. Of course he'll gain a lot and so he should. But Mosely is pretty much the man at welterweight right now, and Cotto looks to be on the slide. And I think when Pacquiao beats Cotto (Which I think he will) people will raise the question of the catchweight at what they fought. IMO anyways.

which a lot of people including you thought he was gonna get slaughtered in those fights... the hating continues and so on.....

Nobody knew Oscar was that shot except for Freddie Roach. Roach called Oscar a "walking dead man". He himself said the fight would never of happened if he thought Oscar was any type of threat. Think about that for a second. How much credit you going to give Pac for beating a man who really couldn't fight any more? Hell Roach even went as far as saying he wouldn't get paid if Oscar won. He was that sure Oscar was finished.

[Dark Lord Al]

I think you have to give credit to pac for going through the divisions , and still carrying power and speed , opinions will always differ , especially when some love him and some hate him. Those who love or hate him really cant give and unbiased view. I do know what I'm talking about , take my hero Tommy Hearns for example , i would make excuses for him , and defend him in any argument , now however when older and wiser although still my favorite boxer ever , i can see both the good and bad in him as a fighter.
Its also like my view of Joe Calzaghe , because i hated him , i can never really give a balanced view , I'm always going to dwell on the bad parts of his makeup , and give little credit for the good points.
I do find it hard to understand why people hate PACMAN , he is exciting and is not a loudmouth, boxing in my opinion will be a worse place when Manny hangs up his gloves.

[porkypara]

There's still work to be done. Since your still actually here



Do you have any idea how many great fighters there's been in the history of Boxing? Being ranked in the top 100 is a great accomplishment. Why make it an insult?

Been here since 2004 so it would take more than a knob jocky like your self to make me quit this site.


I guess back in 2004 you would have been about 3 or 4 years old which would make you around 8 or 9 now.

Than stop whining about how you almost left. Seriously what was the point in that? I certainly don't give a fukk if you do or don't.

If I'm 9 years old than your clearly a female. A bitter female who just looks for something to complain about. Case in point.

I'm thinking your a Pac fan. Ok. Fine. Now tell me. What exactly bothered you about my post? Was it me calling him a sure Hall of Famer? Top 100 all time? Maybe when I said his accomplishments were great and he's had a great career? That rub you the wrong way? Those are compliments. What more you want?

Wait. I think i know. The problem is that's not good enough for you, huh? I didn't get on my knees and give Pacquiao his daily virtual blow job like you and the other Pac groupies do. There was no "Pacquiao is the greatest who ever lived." No "Pacquiao would destroy Ray Robinson and Roberto Duran" talk. The "Pacquiao looks so dreamy" references were also missing. So because I didn't do that you take my post as an attack on Pacquiao. Your fukking pathetic.

The fact that we dont agree is the whole point on having fourms.It would be quite boring if everybody agreed with each other.

What bothers me about YOU in general,is that every time you post somthing on here you always feel the need to insult or call sombody a name like a youg child in the school yard.


You are a good example of an internet warrior acting the big man while on your keyboard safe knowing that you can say what you want without getting a punch in the nose which is what you would have if you said thoses type of things to anybody face to face.

Also like your tough guy name,

[ElTerribleMorales]

Been here since 2004 so it would take more than a knob jocky like your self to make me quit this site.


I guess back in 2004 you would have been about 3 or 4 years old which would make you around 8 or 9 now.

Than stop whining about how you almost left. Seriously what was the point in that? I certainly don't give a fukk if you do or don't.

If I'm 9 years old than your clearly a female. A bitter female who just looks for something to complain about. Case in point.

I'm thinking your a Pac fan. Ok. Fine. Now tell me. What exactly bothered you about my post? Was it me calling him a sure Hall of Famer? Top 100 all time? Maybe when I said his accomplishments were great and he's had a great career? That rub you the wrong way? Those are compliments. What more you want?

Wait. I think i know. The problem is that's not good enough for you, huh? I didn't get on my knees and give Pacquiao his daily virtual blow job like you and the other Pac groupies do. There was no "Pacquiao is the greatest who ever lived." No "Pacquiao would destroy Ray Robinson and Roberto Duran" talk. The "Pacquiao looks so dreamy" references were also missing. So because I didn't do that you take my post as an attack on Pacquiao. Your fukking pathetic.

The fact that we dont agree is the whole point on having fourms.It would be quite boring if everybody agreed with each other.

What bothers me about YOU in general,is that every time you post somthing on here you always feel the need to insult or call sombody a name like a youg child in the school yard.


You are a good example of an internet warrior acting the big man while on your keyboard safe knowing that you can say what you want without getting a punch in the nose which is what you would have if you said thoses type of things to anybody face to face.

Also like your tough guy name,

think you're being a bit too oversensitive, forum's are basically used for people to be able to give their views and their opinions on the given subject, and you're basically callin out VD on this thread when he hasn't even insulted anyone yet, which i admit is very odd lol, but hell he's allowed to have his opinion and i actually agree with him, IMO Pacquiao isn't top 10 or 20 ATG, i'd probably have him in my top 50, but i can name loads of fighters who have accomplished just as much or more than Manny, to say that he's better than Ali, Duran, Leonard, Robinson, Armstrong, hell even George Foreman is pretty ridiculous to me, and like VD said, given how many great fighters there are in the history of this great sport, to say he's in your top 100 is no insult, IMO he's the greatest fighter or one of the top 2 greatest fighters (might have Villa ahead) to come out of the Philippines, take the compliments, and don't try to force your views of him as a god on everyone else, cause although he is a great fighter, he's far from perfect

[Rantcatrat]

Ring magazines top 80 fighters. This list was done in 2002. And here are the top 10.

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Roberto Duran
6. Willie Pep
7. Harry Greb
8. Benny Leonard
9. Sugar Ray Leonard
10. Pernell Whitaker

Pac and Mayweather are great but even if they win their next bout and meets in the ring and whoever wins that bout, won't make the top 10 imo. Pac has questionable decisions in some of his biggest fights, particularly his bouts with Marquez, and Floyd has a reputation of ducking the best fighters in the WW division. They're not getting into that top 10 list, even if they win their next 2 or 3 superfights. Hell I don't even think 1 of them will make it in the top 20. Here's the list from 11-20.

11. Carlos Monzon
12. Rocky Marciano
13. Ezzard Charles
14. Archie Moore
15. Sandy Saddler
16. Jack Dempsey
17. Marvin Hagler
18. Julio Cesar Chavez
19. Eder Jofre
20. Alexis Arguello

The top 20 guys have a better resume than Floyd and Pac.

I think this is a great breakdown. Pac and PBF are great talents and if we went by just that then we have top 10 arguments. But their resumes and what they've done during their tenures are not that of the top 20. I think we need to see more from Pac such as fighting some different styles, like some elite boxer movers, than just the straight in guys he's been lunching on. I think we need to see PBF fight a Mosley(not a Pac) or some top 3 welterweights. I think both these guys have extremely rare talent but they both also have been more selective than the all time greats on the fighters and/or conditions of the fights. Maybe they're not that concerned with it. But if they want all time 10 status then they should take a page out of Henry Armstrong's book.

Good post. PBF beats a Mosley or any bigger fighter who moves well, Pac beats a PBF or any bigger fighter who moves well, and the conversation becomes interesting.

Right now - top fifty. Top twenty should be considered if Pac beats Cotto and PBF. Top fifteen if he beat Cotto, PBF, and Mosley. Or something along those lines. Because then we are talking wins over JMM, SSM, MC, PBF, ODLH, MAB, EM etc and that is hard to ignore because the list encompasses every style out there including bigger stronger boxers.

Not that it makes any difference, but I'm just curious, is this Pacquiao's first fight with a fighter of Puerto Rican descent?

[Snakefist Ar Fu]

Ring magazines top 80 fighters. This list was done in 2002. And here are the top 10.

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Roberto Duran
6. Willie Pep
7. Harry Greb
8. Benny Leonard
9. Sugar Ray Leonard
10. Pernell Whitaker

Pac and Mayweather are great but even if they win their next bout and meets in the ring and whoever wins that bout, won't make the top 10 imo. Pac has questionable decisions in some of his biggest fights, particularly his bouts with Marquez, and Floyd has a reputation of ducking the best fighters in the WW division. They're not getting into that top 10 list, even if they win their next 2 or 3 superfights. Hell I don't even think 1 of them will make it in the top 20. Here's the list from 11-20.

11. Carlos Monzon
12. Rocky Marciano
13. Ezzard Charles
14. Archie Moore
15. Sandy Saddler
16. Jack Dempsey
17. Marvin Hagler
18. Julio Cesar Chavez
19. Eder Jofre
20. Alexis Arguello

The top 20 guys have a better resume than Floyd and Pac.

I think this is a great breakdown. Pac and PBF are great talents and if we went by just that then we have top 10 arguments. But their resumes and what they've done during their tenures are not that of the top 20. I think we need to see more from Pac such as fighting some different styles, like some elite boxer movers, than just the straight in guys he's been lunching on. I think we need to see PBF fight a Mosley(not a Pac) or some top 3 welterweights. I think both these guys have extremely rare talent but they both also have been more selective than the all time greats on the fighters and/or conditions of the fights. Maybe they're not that concerned with it. But if they want all time 10 status then they should take a page out of Henry Armstrong's book.

Good post. PBF beats a Mosley or any bigger fighter who moves well, Pac beats a PBF or any bigger fighter who moves well, and the conversation becomes interesting.

Right now - top fifty. Top twenty should be considered if Pac beats Cotto and PBF. Top fifteen if he beat Cotto, PBF, and Mosley. Or something along those lines. Because then we are talking wins over JMM, SSM, MC, PBF, ODLH, MAB, EM etc and that is hard to ignore because the list encompasses every style out there including bigger stronger boxers.

Not that it makes any difference, but I'm just curious, is this Pacquiao's first fight with a fighter of Puerto Rican descent?

I could give him a spot in the top ten after a while. If he carries on fighting in the Light Welterweight and Welterweight devision which I think are the most competetive devisions. Stay around untill he beats all the top people then you have to put him up there with the best.
As far as where he is now then you can not place him that high.
I think his biggest challenge will be mayweather if that fight ever happens.

[leftylee]

I have to agree with Ice. He is a great fighter but somehwhat overrated. A lot of people are blinded by the De La Hoya and Hatton fights and forget what Marquez did to him.

He is by no means invincible or any shiit like that, I think Mayweather beats him. And there are also question marks over Cotto. I mean how much did Margarito take out of him. Look at how he looked in the Clottey fight. I don't think Pacquiao will gain massive amounts of great credit if he beats Cotto. Of course he'll gain a lot and so he should. But Mosely is pretty much the man at welterweight right now, and Cotto looks to be on the slide. And I think when Pacquiao beats Cotto (Which I think he will) people will raise the question of the catchweight at what they fought. IMO anyways.

which a lot of people including you thought he was gonna get slaughtered in those fights... the hating continues and so on.....

VD already touched upon De La Hoya so I'll discuss Hatton.

Ricky Hatton's punch resistance had gone when Pacquiao got to him. I shamefully admit I was blinded by the Malignaggi fight. Look at the 2 fights before that and Lazcano rocked him (Not overly rocked like what some fools say, but enough) and Mayweather knocked him out. The reason he looked like he could take a shot of Malignaggi is simple, Paulie can't punch.

Hatton's chin had been exposed and he couldn't take a shot no more. Manny Pacquiao never finished Hatton, he was already done. In hindsight though nobody could see it bar a few. Maybe heart got in the way of me choosing Hatton, I dunno. But it was dumb to think Ricky Hatton could beat Pacquiao on May 2nd. If Hatton would have fought Pacquiao straight after Lazcano I would have had Manny the favourite. Everybody would. The Malignaggi fight blinded us. We all thought the Hatton of 2005 is back with Floyd Sr. How wrong were we.

[Violent Demise]

Been here since 2004 so it would take more than a knob jocky like your self to make me quit this site.


I guess back in 2004 you would have been about 3 or 4 years old which would make you around 8 or 9 now.

Than stop whining about how you almost left. Seriously what was the point in that? I certainly don't give a fukk if you do or don't.

If I'm 9 years old than your clearly a female. A bitter female who just looks for something to complain about. Case in point.

I'm thinking your a Pac fan. Ok. Fine. Now tell me. What exactly bothered you about my post? Was it me calling him a sure Hall of Famer? Top 100 all time? Maybe when I said his accomplishments were great and he's had a great career? That rub you the wrong way? Those are compliments. What more you want?

Wait. I think i know. The problem is that's not good enough for you, huh? I didn't get on my knees and give Pacquiao his daily virtual blow job like you and the other Pac groupies do. There was no "Pacquiao is the greatest who ever lived." No "Pacquiao would destroy Ray Robinson and Roberto Duran" talk. The "Pacquiao looks so dreamy" references were also missing. So because I didn't do that you take my post as an attack on Pacquiao. Your fukking pathetic.

The fact that we dont agree is the whole point on having fourms.It would be quite boring if everybody agreed with each other.

What bothers me about YOU in general,is that every time you post somthing on here you always feel the need to insult or call sombody a name like a youg child in the school yard.


You are a good example of an internet warrior acting the big man while on your keyboard safe knowing that you can say what you want without getting a punch in the nose which is what you would have if you said thoses type of things to anybody face to face.

Also like your tough guy name,

Your a female no doubt. Most be that time of the month cuz you crying about nothing. First you cry that you thought about leaving. Than you saying forums are for disagreeing. Now you biitching about being insulted, yet I ain't got started on your biitch ass. Change your muthafukking pad. The blood is dripping down your leg and making you upset.

I fear no muthafukka breathing. Much less an obese fool like yourself. If you got doubts as to who I am, than bring your punk ass to the US. I would personally go to where you at and meet you face to face. Ask your fellow country men Leftylee. He came to the US. I picked him up and we kicked it.

[CFH]

If you guys want to insult each other, please do it somewhere other than the main board.

[Julius Rain]

Throughout pacs career those who dislike him are often wrong but yet they still have the thickness to continue to say as much ridiculous things as those who overly adore him. I think the nuetral can agree that both side are delusional. Sure a few years ago the comments such as pac would ko hatton was ridiculous when it came from a pac fan. It did happen though, right? I know I know his not superman like some fans would say but I think theres more credit due to his fan then any remark the anti pac makes.

As for how great manny is? Now a days I just sit back with very little to say cause Pac is slowly forcing these haters to admit they were wrong all along. Sure some are still thick as hell but let them rot that way the longer they deny the longer they suffer

Pac has been complimented as the greatest southpaw ever, I kinda dont agree just yet but Im happy to hear that.

Pac has been compared to the great Armstrong, again thats a huge compliment and Im happy to hear it.

These are top 5 - 10 atg comparison but I can not say pac is there yet.

At the end of pacs career I believe he'll be unforgettable to both fan and anti pac. Thats the real measurement of GREATNESS.

[generalbulldog]

Throughout pacs career those who dislike him are often wrong but yet they still have the thickness to continue to say as much ridiculous things as those who overly adore him. I think the nuetral can agree that both side are delusional. Sure a few years ago the comments such as pac would ko hatton was ridiculous when it came from a pac fan. It did happen though, right? I know I know his not superman like some fans would say but I think theres more credit due to his fan then any remark the anti pac makes.

As for how great manny is? Now a days I just sit back with very little to say cause Pac is slowly forcing these haters to admit they were wrong all along. Sure some are still thick as hell but let them rot that way the longer they deny the longer they suffer

Pac has been complimented as the greatest southpaw ever, I kinda dont agree just yet but Im happy to hear that.

Pac has been compared to the great Armstrong, again thats a huge compliment and Im happy to hear it.

These are top 5 - 10 atg comparison but I can not say pac is there yet.

At the end of pacs career I believe he'll be unforgettable to both fan and anti pac. Thats the real measurement of GREATNESS.

Who was it that said he's the greatest Southpaw ever?

Pernell Whittaker in my book is the greatest SP at these weight classes. I'll choose him in his prime over anyone at 135-140 at their prime.

[Violent Demise]

If you guys want to insult each other, please do it somewhere other than the main board.

It'll play out. Stay out of it

Throughout pacs career those who dislike him are often wrong but yet they still have the thickness to continue to say as much ridiculous things as those who overly adore him. I think the nuetral can agree that both side are delusional. Sure a few years ago the comments such as pac would ko hatton was ridiculous when it came from a pac fan. It did happen though, right? I know I know his not superman like some fans would say but I think theres more credit due to his fan then any remark the anti pac makes.

As for how great manny is? Now a days I just sit back with very little to say cause Pac is slowly forcing these haters to admit they were wrong all along. Sure some are still thick as hell but let them rot that way the longer they deny the longer they suffer

Pac has been complimented as the greatest southpaw ever, I kinda dont agree just yet but Im happy to hear that.

Pac has been compared to the great Armstrong, again thats a huge compliment and Im happy to hear it.

These are top 5 - 10 atg comparison but I can not say pac is there yet.

At the end of pacs career I believe he'll be unforgettable to both fan and anti pac. Thats the real measurement of GREATNESS.

Who was it that said he's the greatest Southpaw ever?

Pernell Whittaker in my book is the greatest SP at these weight classes. I'll choose him in his prime over anyone at 135-140 at their prime.

The old, delusional, senile Burt Sugar I think said it

[BlackHawk]

Manny Pacquiao is somewhere 1 to 20 greatest boxer of all time.

If Manny Pacquiao beats Miguel Cotto. His somewhere 1 to 10 greatest boxer of all time.

- He is the ONLY fighter to archive the following:

* 7th Division world champion in different weight class

* 4 or 5 Linear World Champion ( Ring Magazine )

* WBC Diamond Belt

* W-50 L-3 D 2 (Beat most elite fighters)

* 106lbs to 147lbs (10 Division)

Current achievements:
Titles

Major:

• WBC world flyweight champion
• IBF world super bantamweight champion
• WBC world super featherweight champion
• WBC world lightweight champion

Minor:

• OPBF flyweight champion
• WBC international super bantamweight champion
• WBC international super featherweight champion
• IBO world light welterweight champion

The Ring Magazine titles:

• World featherweight champion
• World super featherweight champion
• World light welterweight champion

Lineal Championship titles:

• World flyweight champion
• World featherweight champion
• World junior lightweight champion
• World junior welterweight champion

Recognitions

• 2006 & 2008 Ring Magazine Fighter of the Year
• 2006 & 2008[86] Boxing Writers Association Of America Fighter of the Year
• 2009 ESPY Awards Best Fighter[87]
• WBC Emeritus Champion
• The Ring Magazine #1 Pound For Pound
• 5-Time PSA Sportsman of the Year
• 2008 University Athletic Association of the Philippines (UAAP) Honorary Award for Sports Excellence[88]
• 2008 BoxingScene.com Fighter of the Year[89]
• 2008 Sports Illustrated Boxer of the Year[90]
• 2008 SecondsOut.com Fighter of the Year[91]
• 2008 TheSweetScience.com Boxer of the Year[92]
• 2008 WBC Boxer of the Year[93]
• 2008 Yahoo Sports Fighter of the Year[94]
• 2008 ESPN Star's Champion of Champions[95]
• 2009 TIME 100 Most Influential People (Heroes & Icons Category)[96]
• 2009 Forbes Magazine Celebrity 100 (ranked 57th)[97]
• 2009 Versus World's TOUGHEST Athlete

Name a fighter who can match his achievements?

[yvonne]

You have to love Manny,he's awesome to watch.All eyes are on Manny and there have been for years.Im glad to witness a worthy awesome boxer that has dominated the boxing scene with great force at this moment of time.Lets all enjoy Manny.Fighters like him dont come around often,and when he's gone we'll all miss him in the sport,even the small batch of Manny haters will eventually miss him too.

Manny is awesome!

[porkypara]

Than stop whining about how you almost left. Seriously what was the point in that? I certainly don't give a fukk if you do or don't.

If I'm 9 years old than your clearly a female. A bitter female who just looks for something to complain about. Case in point.

I'm thinking your a Pac fan. Ok. Fine. Now tell me. What exactly bothered you about my post? Was it me calling him a sure Hall of Famer? Top 100 all time? Maybe when I said his accomplishments were great and he's had a great career? That rub you the wrong way? Those are compliments. What more you want?

Wait. I think i know. The problem is that's not good enough for you, huh? I didn't get on my knees and give Pacquiao his daily virtual blow job like you and the other Pac groupies do. There was no "Pacquiao is the greatest who ever lived." No "Pacquiao would destroy Ray Robinson and Roberto Duran" talk. The "Pacquiao looks so dreamy" references were also missing. So because I didn't do that you take my post as an attack on Pacquiao. Your fukking pathetic.

The fact that we dont agree is the whole point on having fourms.It would be quite boring if everybody agreed with each other.

What bothers me about YOU in general,is that every time you post somthing on here you always feel the need to insult or call sombody a name like a youg child in the school yard.


You are a good example of an internet warrior acting the big man while on your keyboard safe knowing that you can say what you want without getting a punch in the nose which is what you would have if you said thoses type of things to anybody face to face.

Also like your tough guy name,

Your a female no doubt. Most be that time of the month cuz you crying about nothing. First you cry that you thought about leaving. Than you saying forums are for disagreeing. Now you biitching about being insulted, yet I ain't got started on your biitch ass. Change your muthafukking pad. The blood is dripping down your leg and making you upset.

I fear no muthafukka breathing. Much less an obese fool like yourself. If you got doubts as to who I am, than bring your punk ass to the US. I would personally go to where you at and meet you face to face. Ask your fellow country men Leftylee. He came to the US. I picked him up and we kicked it.

Just coz we disagree is no reason for personal insults.

Cant go to the US at the moment as I am in Ireland.Come to the UK if you want.

You are about as hard as a gay boy in a strip joint.(as you are an American I know you cant go into strip bars till you are 21 so
you are fucked)

I did say at the start of this thread that I did not want this to be a slagging match but with fuckwitts like you about I just cant help myself.