De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st

[erics44]

Then why have weight classes at all? I believe there should be no catchweights allowed in pro boxing at all, you are following the rules of a weightclass or you aren't. If you are going to move up to fight bigger men, then that's exactly what you should be doing fighting bigger men, not fighting with an asterisk. Of course, noone's going to take a stand when a 6-7 figure payday is on the line.

Well actually I would agree. But the bigger men are already the beneficiaries of an unfair advantage having a full 24 hours from the time of the weigh in to the fight itself.

How is that fair?

Some people moaned about Manny winning a junior middleweight title at a catchweight of 150lbs, but that weigh in was the day before the fight.

Margarito actually weighed in at 165 lbs at the time of the fight.

You can't have it both ways. Under the current system biggers guys have an unfair advantage of being able to boil down to fight in a division many pounds lighter than the weight they walk around at.

Allow Manny's opponents to weigh in at the maximum weight limit. But make sure they enter the ring at that weight.

That's surely fair. Under those circumstances Manny's advantage would be even greater.

Because of this disparity catchweights are a necessary evil. All they do is level the playing field that is already biased in favour of the naturally bigger fighter.

I am in the minority that believes same day weigh-ins should be the norm. But the logic of having an unfair advantage by using the normal rules of a weight class is ridiculous. That would be like Qatar's soccer team play against England's but England wouldn't be allowed to have a goalie or any player to enter their own penalty box. Wait, bad example, but still you get the point. Margarito coming in heavier isn't anything out of the norm for the division, noone is forcing Pacquiao to move up in weight, if he chooses to fight there, he should fight in the terms of the division if it's too much of a disadvantage then fight in a lower weight class, that's what we have weight classes for.

I don't see how Manny has an 'unfair' advantage though? The unfairness arises out of the 24 hour window that allows fighters to fight in weight class in which they are too big.

If fighters were not allowed to enter the ring above the weight limit then it would be a whole different ball game and much better for the sport. As it stands, every bigger man has an unfair advantage every time they enter the ring thanks to not having to actually weigh on fight night what they are supposed to according to the weight limit.

I just can't see how people can't see both sides of the coin here?

If a fighter can enter the ring 10 or even 15 lbs more than the weight limit how is that fair?

By asking for a catchweight all Manny is doing is ensuring that a fighter cannot rehydrate to such a high level, thus negating the advantage they would otherwise be able to accumalate.

If having to weight 2 lbs less than the max weight limit for the fight 24 hours before is too much of a strain for the bigger man, then clearly they are fighting in a weight class that is too small for them.

When a smaller guy is moving up, a catchweight is actually a fair fight.

In the case of Miguel Cotto for example, he weighed over the 147 lb weight limit by the time he stepped in the ring with Manny. So imo it was a full welterweight fight.

Catchweights wouldn't need to exist if the sport was more fair in the first place.

dont forget Manny is fighting above his natural weight class, so they cant/shouldnt change the rules to suit him

if he wants to step out of his weight class then he will be fighting bigger fighters wouldnt he?

They aren't changing the rules to suit him. Catchweights have been a feature of boxing for decades. The Gatti Ward fights were at catchweight, the second Leonard Hearns fight was at catchweight, even Oscar dragged Bernard Hopkins down to a catchweight.

As I explained above, catchweights exist for a reason. To enable a smaller man to fight a bigger man on a level playing field.

I don't understand how fight fans want to put obstacles in front of the biggest fights being made. A fighter like Manny is a phenonemon, a rare talent who is skillful enough, and brave enough to step far outside of his comfort zone and climb through more weight classes than any other fighter in history.

Because of the 24 hour weigh in rule, his size disadvantage is already compounded by ensuring that his opponents can weigh even more than the agrred maximum weight limit come fight time, so when fighting for a welter weight title, his opponents routinely weight over 150lbs and for a light middleweight crown, they can climb over the ropes weighing even more than a middleweight.

By having a fighter agree to a catchweight (and Manny has only done this twice in his career!!) that fighter has less opportunity to rehydrate far above the maximum weight limit by the time the fight takes place.

To say that Cotto and Margarito (his only ever catchweight fights) were disadvantaged is unfair. Both fighters actually weighed MORE than the 147 and 154 limits when the fights actually occurred, and neither had to lose excessive weigh in the first place.

Cotto gave up only a single pound more than he did against Clottey, and Margarito has been a career welterweight who weighed 4 lbs below 150 against Shane Mosley.

The whole argument is a complete straw man.

Manny has been tearing through guys because he really is that good (either that or PEDS if you think he's cheating), not because his opponents have been forced to drain themselves, as no fighter has ever had to step over the ropes weighing anything less than the maximum weight limit.

It's typical for people for moan and gripe, because large sections of the human race are sadly almost entirely negative, just witness the histrionics regarding the huge burden the Royal wedding will put on the poor British taxpayers for example. In fact now schools are complaining the wedding is in April as it will interrupt the poor kids as they revise for their GCSE's.

Some people will want to put a negative spin on everything, but they simply cannot see the woods for the trees.

Manny is a sensational, sensational talent. He has done what no other fighter in history has done, yet people still moan about him.

they ould be changing teh rules to suit him if they weighed in on the same day of the fight because it would be fairer for manny

so when manny steps up in weight he has to expect to fight bigger fighters doesnt he?

were these fights you talk about for world titles?

[Kev]

Then why have weight classes at all? I believe there should be no catchweights allowed in pro boxing at all, you are following the rules of a weightclass or you aren't. If you are going to move up to fight bigger men, then that's exactly what you should be doing fighting bigger men, not fighting with an asterisk. Of course, noone's going to take a stand when a 6-7 figure payday is on the line.

Well actually I would agree. But the bigger men are already the beneficiaries of an unfair advantage having a full 24 hours from the time of the weigh in to the fight itself.

How is that fair?

Some people moaned about Manny winning a junior middleweight title at a catchweight of 150lbs, but that weigh in was the day before the fight.

Margarito actually weighed in at 165 lbs at the time of the fight.

You can't have it both ways. Under the current system biggers guys have an unfair advantage of being able to boil down to fight in a division many pounds lighter than the weight they walk around at.

Allow Manny's opponents to weigh in at the maximum weight limit. But make sure they enter the ring at that weight.

That's surely fair. Under those circumstances Manny's advantage would be even greater.

Because of this disparity catchweights are a necessary evil. All they do is level the playing field that is already biased in favour of the naturally bigger fighter.

I am in the minority that believes same day weigh-ins should be the norm. But the logic of having an unfair advantage by using the normal rules of a weight class is ridiculous. That would be like Qatar's soccer team play against England's but England wouldn't be allowed to have a goalie or any player to enter their own penalty box. Wait, bad example, but still you get the point. Margarito coming in heavier isn't anything out of the norm for the division, noone is forcing Pacquiao to move up in weight, if he chooses to fight there, he should fight in the terms of the division if it's too much of a disadvantage then fight in a lower weight class, that's what we have weight classes for.

I don't see how Manny has an 'unfair' advantage though? The unfairness arises out of the 24 hour window that allows fighters to fight in weight class in which they are too big.

If fighters were not allowed to enter the ring above the weight limit then it would be a whole different ball game and much better for the sport. As it stands, every bigger man has an unfair advantage every time they enter the ring thanks to not having to actually weigh on fight night what they are supposed to according to the weight limit.

I just can't see how people can't see both sides of the coin here?

If a fighter can enter the ring 10 or even 15 lbs more than the weight limit how is that fair?

By asking for a catchweight all Manny is doing is ensuring that a fighter cannot rehydrate to such a high level, thus negating the advantage they would otherwise be able to accumalate.

If having to weight 2 lbs less than the max weight limit for the fight 24 hours before is too much of a strain for the bigger man, then clearly they are fighting in a weight class that is too small for them.

When a smaller guy is moving up, a catchweight is actually a fair fight.

In the case of Miguel Cotto for example, he weighed over the 147 lb weight limit by the time he stepped in the ring with Manny. So imo it was a full welterweight fight.

Catchweights wouldn't need to exist if the sport was more fair in the first place.

dont forget Manny is fighting above his natural weight class, so they cant/shouldnt change the rules to suit him

if he wants to step out of his weight class then he will be fighting bigger fighters wouldnt he?

They aren't changing the rules to suit him. Catchweights have been a feature of boxing for decades. The Gatti Ward fights were at catchweight, the second Leonard Hearns fight was at catchweight, even Oscar dragged Bernard Hopkins down to a catchweight.

As I explained above, catchweights exist for a reason. To enable a smaller man to fight a bigger man on a level playing field.

I don't understand how fight fans want to put obstacles in front of the biggest fights being made. A fighter like Manny is a phenonemon, a rare talent who is skillful enough, and brave enough to step far outside of his comfort zone and climb through more weight classes than any other fighter in history.

Because of the 24 hour weigh in rule, his size disadvantage is already compounded by ensuring that his opponents can weigh even more than the agrred maximum weight limit come fight time, so when fighting for a welter weight title, his opponents routinely weight over 150lbs and for a light middleweight crown, they can climb over the ropes weighing even more than a middleweight.

By having a fighter agree to a catchweight (and Manny has only done this twice in his career!!) that fighter has less opportunity to rehydrate far above the maximum weight limit by the time the fight takes place.

To say that Cotto and Margarito (his only ever catchweight fights) were disadvantaged is unfair. Both fighters actually weighed MORE than the 147 and 154 limits when the fights actually occurred, and neither had to lose excessive weigh in the first place.

Cotto gave up only a single pound more than he did against Clottey, and Margarito has been a career welterweight who weighed 4 lbs below 150 against Shane Mosley.

The whole argument is a complete straw man.

Manny has been tearing through guys because he really is that good (either that or PEDS if you think he's cheating), not because his opponents have been forced to drain themselves, as no fighter has ever had to step over the ropes weighing anything less than the maximum weight limit.

It's typical for people for moan and gripe, because large sections of the human race are sadly almost entirely negative, just witness the histrionics regarding the huge burden the Royal wedding will put on the poor British taxpayers for example. In fact now schools are complaining the wedding is in April as it will interrupt the poor kids as they revise for their GCSE's.

Some people will want to put a negative spin on everything, but they simply cannot see the woods for the trees.

Manny is a sensational, sensational talent. He has done what no other fighter in history has done, yet people still moan about him.

they ould be changing teh rules to suit him if they weighed in on the same day of the fight because it would be fairer for manny

so when manny steps up in weight he has to expect to fight bigger fighters doesnt he?

were these fights you talk about for world titles?

I'm not sure about how familiar you are with boxing history but the wiegh ins used to be on the day of the fight.

They were moved to the day before in the television era of Ali etc, and then the weigh in itself was used to hype the fight.

It gives larger fighters the advantage against a smaller guy.

Normally it doesn't matter as not many fighters rise up 10 weight classes but Manny is the exception. All he has sought (and only twice ever) is that his opponents make a slight concession too, to balane the unequal distribution of fairness for them having a 24 hour window to gain weight considerably over and above the maximum weight limit.

I'll say it again. No fighter has been stopped from weighing even more than the weight limit on the day of the fight.

Manny has never asked for same day weigh ins. He has negotiated two catchweights, both voluntarily agreed into by his opponent, both of whom had fought at a much lower weight than even the catchweight in the not too distant past.

Hatton and Clottey were not catchweight fights, and they got their asses handed to them just the same.

It's such an overblown objection.

The only fighter who has ever had to drop weight to a catchweight was Cotto, by a single pound over and above what he voluntarily weighed against Clottey. Margarito was a welterweight moving up to 154 so didnt have to cut anything.

Imagine this scenario. Roy Jones moves up to heavyweight and instead of fighting John Ruiz he fights Lennox Lewis or Vitali Klitschko, with a contractual stipulation that they must weigh lets say 1 lb below their lowest fighting weight from the previous two years, that would be an approximate analagy.

So Lewis or Vitali would have to weigh in below 245 lbs for the fight, rather than their usual 248 or so.

Then Roy Jones beats the snot out of them knocking one out and dominating the other over 12 rounds.

According to your standards that would not be as impressive to you as him beating John Ruiz, because Ruiz was not subjected to the weight agreement.

It really is that absurd.

[Master]

De la Hoya chose to fight Manny Pac at welter and was not forced by him. Oscar did it because he would look like a bully for makiing him fight at light middle. Oscar tried it against Shane the first time and that back fired too. Oscar is a promoter now so has to talk crap to promote his fighter. I would like to see Pac v JMM probably at light welter but do not think Manny would accept the fight at that lower weight.

[generalbulldog]

And let's not forget the most important factor, Bilbo. We all want Mayweather/Pacquiao, but that fight just ain't happening.

I think that's more Floyd's doing than Manny's though.

I really don't see why moving up would be a disadvantage to Marquez any more than it is to Manny?

Both fighters are the same size. Manny has no natural size advantage over Marquez.

If you feel that Manny carries his extra size better, you may have a point. Certainly it seems not to have affected his speed much, and he seems to be stronger now. Maybe Marquez is better below a certain weight, but we no evidence of that other than the fact that Floyd dominated him with ease. But then Floyd, is, well Floyd, and what's to say he wouldn't handle Manny just as easily?

If you want to argue that Marquez is not as effective at the higher weight, you have to equally accept that Manny has proven more effective there, than at superfeatherweight, where he admittedly struggled with Juan Manuel in his final fight there.

Manny is clearly fighting better at 147 so why should he disadvantage himself moving down?

It isn't Manny who needs to chase anybody,as I said earlier he is the prize, and if Marquez really wants him he will, and in my opinion should, be the one who has to go to the champ.

The mountain didn't come to Muhammad after all.

I agree with the part in bold. JMM wanted a 3rd match? Maybe he shouldn't have asked for 50/50 for everything and OSTD up till the day of the fight when the fight was proposed to him by Pac's team in January of this year. Marquez Wanted 50-50 Split, Blood Tests For Pacquiao - Boxing News

I know JMM fans will say anything below 50/50 money wise for him is unfair, but he's not the one that brings the masses to come see his fights and order the US PPVs or is 1/2 the face of boxing. Boxing after all is a business.

[milmascaras1]

i will agree that oscar de la hoya is talking nonsense when he says pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales. nobody forces them to do it. concerning marquez however, he knew he wasn't going to get a 50/50 split but that is only a negotiation ploy. believe me, if he was offered a 70/30 split he would take it in a heartbeat because he knows he would give pacquiao hell.

[InTheNeutralCorner]

i will agree that oscar de la hoya is talking nonsense when he says pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales. nobody forces them to do it. concerning marquez however, he knew he wasn't going to get a 50/50 split but that is only a negotiation ploy. believe me, if he was offered a 70/30 split he would take it in a heartbeat because he knows he would give pacquiao hell.

If the demand for 50/50 split by the JMM camp then was a negotiation ploy, then it failed miserably because the Pacquiao camp did not bite.

I hope you're right that they would accept a 70/30 split in a heartbeat.

[THE THIRD MAN]

De La Hoya: Pacquiao Forces Boxers To Lose on The Scale - Boxing News

According to Oscar, Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scale first. He said Pacquiao forced him to move down to 147 and other opponents. He also is pushing for a 3rd fight with JMM at a preferred catchweight of 142 or 144 and that Marquez beat Pacquiao twice. He says it's the right thing for Pac to accomodate JMM and fight at a CW.


My thoughts are that Oscar is right, he never made any demands in his fight or to gain an advantage. I mean Oscar never made any demands for catchweights (Hopkins 156 for lineal MW title) or make opponents climb up in weight (Genaro Hernandez, Floyd and Pac) to fight him ever in his career. Oscar always maintained a fair and even playing field.

Oscar agreed to fight at 147lb then foolishly over trained and drained himself by weighing 141lb a month out from the fight. His body was a wreck come fight night, i don't see how that's Pacquiao's fault? IMO another Marquez fight would be disastrous for JMM at this time, granted he was unlucky in two previous fights, remember he was almost blasted away inside 3 minutes in the first one. Marquez is not the fighter he was 5 years ago, Pacquiao has improved considerably. Pac beats Marquez easily in fight 3.

[TitoFan]

1. Get rid of catchweights. Boxing has enough weight divisions as it is. If you can't make the weight in one division, move to another... the way it's ALWAYS been done.

2. Nobody forces anybody else to fight at a catchweight. If you do it and lose, it's your own damn fault (and your promoter's as well).

3. ODLH is a little bitch. Doesn't surprise me that he'd be the one making a big deal out of this. No one else has. Take your beating like a man and move on.

4. What Pacquiao has done is nothing short of amazing... catchweights or no catchweights. He's increased his body mass by 50% and has beaten champions at much higher weights than he started out as. If he's doing drugs... no one has proven it yet. Innocent until proven guilty.

5. ODLH is a little bitch. Oh... I'm sorry... did I do that one already?


LMAO. He tried to spear a little piranha to put on his trophy case, and got chewed down to the bone for his troubles. His triumphant ride into the sunset turned into: "Who, me go out there again?? Are you out of your freaking mind??"

[miron_lang]

I like Dan Rafael's solution

Manny defend his WBO Welterweight title againts Marquez 1st half of 2011. We all know Manny will come in at 144 JMM at 142... Figthtnight Pac@148 JMM@146 ( Very likely )

Mosley fights Berto in the undercard. If Mosley wins his stock rises by beating a young undefeated Champion. If Berto wins his stock rises, he'll add the biggest name in his CV that will surely add to his popularity as Mosley been with Oscar and Floyd.

Pac fights the winner (Assuming he wins againts JMM) 2nd half of 2011.


---


Its sounds like a fantasy

[Gandalf]

I like Dan Rafael's solution

Manny defend his WBO Welterweight title againts Marquez 1st half of 2011. We all know Manny will come in at 144 JMM at 142... Figthtnight Pac@148 JMM@146 ( Very likely )

Mosley fights Berto in the undercard. If Mosley wins his stock rises by beating a young undefeated Champion. If Berto wins his stock rises, he'll add the biggest name in his CV that will surely add to his popularity as Mosley been with Oscar and Floyd.

Pac fights the winner (Assuming he wins againts JMM) 2nd half of 2011.


---


Its sounds like a fantasy

It is insane to ask Marquez to jump two weight divisions at 37. If Pacquiao gets the win then he also gets no credit. Mayweather got no credit for doing this to Marquez and neither should Manny. The only way to make it half way fair is to have Pac come down to 140 and ask Marquez to make the leap to 140. Otherwise we are heading into Pac/DLH territory where most of us thought it was a mismatch and Marquez at this stage in his career, as good as he is, is unlikely to make that transition, more so with us all having seen the Mayweather fight.

[generalbulldog]

I like Dan Rafael's solution

Manny defend his WBO Welterweight title againts Marquez 1st half of 2011. We all know Manny will come in at 144 JMM at 142... Figthtnight Pac@148 JMM@146 ( Very likely )

Mosley fights Berto in the undercard. If Mosley wins his stock rises by beating a young undefeated Champion. If Berto wins his stock rises, he'll add the biggest name in his CV that will surely add to his popularity as Mosley been with Oscar and Floyd.

Pac fights the winner (Assuming he wins againts JMM) 2nd half of 2011.


---


Its sounds like a fantasy

It is insane to ask Marquez to jump two weight divisions at 37. If Pacquiao gets the win then he also gets no credit. Mayweather got no credit for doing this to Marquez and neither should Manny. The only way to make it half way fair is to have Pac come down to 140 and ask Marquez to make the leap to 140. Otherwise we are heading into Pac/DLH territory where most of us thought it was a mismatch and Marquez at this stage in his career, as good as he is, is unlikely to make that transition, more so with us all having seen the Mayweather fight.

Marquez was 145 on fight night agaisnt Katsidis. Pac was 148 on fightnight against Margarito, that's why Emanuel Steward considers Pacquiao a blownup lightweight at this stage of his career, he just doesn't have to cut any weight at all. Marquez doesn't have to come in at the welterweight limit of 147, fighters aren't forced to come in at the limit. Marquez can come in at 139 or whatever he feels comfortable at and then rehydrate only a few pounds, instead of 10+ pounds when he had to cut the 135 pound limit.

JMM wants the fight so bad, then maybe he shouldn't have priced himself out earlier this year when the fight was offered and more than likely it would have been at 140 since Pacquiao was only 1 fight removed from fighting there. No one besides Floyd is going to get 50/50 money wise against Pacquiao and other demands. In business, war, and politics there is no such thing as fairness, only parties with leverage.

[miron_lang]

It is insane to ask Marquez to jump two weight divisions at 37. If Pacquiao gets the win then he also gets no credit. Mayweather got no credit for doing this to Marquez and neither should Manny. The only way to make it half way fair is to have Pac come down to 140 and ask Marquez to make the leap to 140. Otherwise we are heading into Pac/DLH territory where most of us thought it was a mismatch and Marquez at this stage in his career, as good as he is, is unlikely to make that transition, more so with us all having seen the Mayweather fight.

sounds fair. but you and i undestand that Juan and Manny are actually the same "size" Pac's attributes just enables him to be more effective at a higher weight.

but againts each other nobody is getting blown away.

Pac has WBO Welterweight title, It just logical and fair that he defend it right?

Legacy wise fighting at catchwegiht of 141 for the welterweight title is a sore in Pac's CV

how about a straight up welterweight fight because Pac doesnt even come close to 147 anyways? IF JMM thinks that coming in at 135 benefits him then do it. Pac came in at 144 for a 150 fight.

Size doesnt matter between these 2 Miles. And i cant really absorb your concern about JMM fighting at a heavier weight when JMM can come in at his best form anyways. same as pac even if its a lot lighter than the contracted weight.

[erics44]

Then why have weight classes at all? I believe there should be no catchweights allowed in pro boxing at all, you are following the rules of a weightclass or you aren't. If you are going to move up to fight bigger men, then that's exactly what you should be doing fighting bigger men, not fighting with an asterisk. Of course, noone's going to take a stand when a 6-7 figure payday is on the line.

Well actually I would agree. But the bigger men are already the beneficiaries of an unfair advantage having a full 24 hours from the time of the weigh in to the fight itself.

How is that fair?

Some people moaned about Manny winning a junior middleweight title at a catchweight of 150lbs, but that weigh in was the day before the fight.

Margarito actually weighed in at 165 lbs at the time of the fight.

You can't have it both ways. Under the current system biggers guys have an unfair advantage of being able to boil down to fight in a division many pounds lighter than the weight they walk around at.

Allow Manny's opponents to weigh in at the maximum weight limit. But make sure they enter the ring at that weight.

That's surely fair. Under those circumstances Manny's advantage would be even greater.

Because of this disparity catchweights are a necessary evil. All they do is level the playing field that is already biased in favour of the naturally bigger fighter.

I am in the minority that believes same day weigh-ins should be the norm. But the logic of having an unfair advantage by using the normal rules of a weight class is ridiculous. That would be like Qatar's soccer team play against England's but England wouldn't be allowed to have a goalie or any player to enter their own penalty box. Wait, bad example, but still you get the point. Margarito coming in heavier isn't anything out of the norm for the division, noone is forcing Pacquiao to move up in weight, if he chooses to fight there, he should fight in the terms of the division if it's too much of a disadvantage then fight in a lower weight class, that's what we have weight classes for.

I don't see how Manny has an 'unfair' advantage though? The unfairness arises out of the 24 hour window that allows fighters to fight in weight class in which they are too big.

If fighters were not allowed to enter the ring above the weight limit then it would be a whole different ball game and much better for the sport. As it stands, every bigger man has an unfair advantage every time they enter the ring thanks to not having to actually weigh on fight night what they are supposed to according to the weight limit.

I just can't see how people can't see both sides of the coin here?

If a fighter can enter the ring 10 or even 15 lbs more than the weight limit how is that fair?

By asking for a catchweight all Manny is doing is ensuring that a fighter cannot rehydrate to such a high level, thus negating the advantage they would otherwise be able to accumalate.

If having to weight 2 lbs less than the max weight limit for the fight 24 hours before is too much of a strain for the bigger man, then clearly they are fighting in a weight class that is too small for them.

When a smaller guy is moving up, a catchweight is actually a fair fight.

In the case of Miguel Cotto for example, he weighed over the 147 lb weight limit by the time he stepped in the ring with Manny. So imo it was a full welterweight fight.

Catchweights wouldn't need to exist if the sport was more fair in the first place.

dont forget Manny is fighting above his natural weight class, so they cant/shouldnt change the rules to suit him

if he wants to step out of his weight class then he will be fighting bigger fighters wouldnt he?

They aren't changing the rules to suit him. Catchweights have been a feature of boxing for decades. The Gatti Ward fights were at catchweight, the second Leonard Hearns fight was at catchweight, even Oscar dragged Bernard Hopkins down to a catchweight.

As I explained above, catchweights exist for a reason. To enable a smaller man to fight a bigger man on a level playing field.

I don't understand how fight fans want to put obstacles in front of the biggest fights being made. A fighter like Manny is a phenonemon, a rare talent who is skillful enough, and brave enough to step far outside of his comfort zone and climb through more weight classes than any other fighter in history.

Because of the 24 hour weigh in rule, his size disadvantage is already compounded by ensuring that his opponents can weigh even more than the agrred maximum weight limit come fight time, so when fighting for a welter weight title, his opponents routinely weight over 150lbs and for a light middleweight crown, they can climb over the ropes weighing even more than a middleweight.

By having a fighter agree to a catchweight (and Manny has only done this twice in his career!!) that fighter has less opportunity to rehydrate far above the maximum weight limit by the time the fight takes place.

To say that Cotto and Margarito (his only ever catchweight fights) were disadvantaged is unfair. Both fighters actually weighed MORE than the 147 and 154 limits when the fights actually occurred, and neither had to lose excessive weigh in the first place.

Cotto gave up only a single pound more than he did against Clottey, and Margarito has been a career welterweight who weighed 4 lbs below 150 against Shane Mosley.

The whole argument is a complete straw man.

Manny has been tearing through guys because he really is that good (either that or PEDS if you think he's cheating), not because his opponents have been forced to drain themselves, as no fighter has ever had to step over the ropes weighing anything less than the maximum weight limit.

It's typical for people for moan and gripe, because large sections of the human race are sadly almost entirely negative, just witness the histrionics regarding the huge burden the Royal wedding will put on the poor British taxpayers for example. In fact now schools are complaining the wedding is in April as it will interrupt the poor kids as they revise for their GCSE's.

Some people will want to put a negative spin on everything, but they simply cannot see the woods for the trees.

Manny is a sensational, sensational talent. He has done what no other fighter in history has done, yet people still moan about him.

they ould be changing teh rules to suit him if they weighed in on the same day of the fight because it would be fairer for manny

so when manny steps up in weight he has to expect to fight bigger fighters doesnt he?

were these fights you talk about for world titles?

I'm not sure about how familiar you are with boxing history but the wiegh ins used to be on the day of the fight.

They were moved to the day before in the television era of Ali etc, and then the weigh in itself was used to hype the fight.

It gives larger fighters the advantage against a smaller guy.

Normally it doesn't matter as not many fighters rise up 10 weight classes but Manny is the exception. All he has sought (and only twice ever) is that his opponents make a slight concession too, to balane the unequal distribution of fairness for them having a 24 hour window to gain weight considerably over and above the maximum weight limit.

I'll say it again. No fighter has been stopped from weighing even more than the weight limit on the day of the fight.

Manny has never asked for same day weigh ins. He has negotiated two catchweights, both voluntarily agreed into by his opponent, both of whom had fought at a much lower weight than even the catchweight in the not too distant past.

Hatton and Clottey were not catchweight fights, and they got their asses handed to them just the same.

It's such an overblown objection.

The only fighter who has ever had to drop weight to a catchweight was Cotto, by a single pound over and above what he voluntarily weighed against Clottey. Margarito was a welterweight moving up to 154 so didnt have to cut anything.

Imagine this scenario. Roy Jones moves up to heavyweight and instead of fighting John Ruiz he fights Lennox Lewis or Vitali Klitschko, with a contractual stipulation that they must weigh lets say 1 lb below their lowest fighting weight from the previous two years, that would be an approximate analagy.

So Lewis or Vitali would have to weigh in below 245 lbs for the fight, rather than their usual 248 or so.

Then Roy Jones beats the snot out of them knocking one out and dominating the other over 12 rounds.

According to your standards that would not be as impressive to you as him beating John Ruiz, because Ruiz was not subjected to the weight agreement.

It really is that absurd.

mate you are funny

they arent the rules now, so if they would make them the rules for a manny fight then they would be changing the rules wouldnt they?

so fighters fight in a weight class that suits them yes? so all is equal

if manny wants to fight at a weight class that is at the limit of his weight where he cant put on any more weight and be effective then he should expect to be fighting a bigger man shouldnt he?

it only benefits the bigger man when his opponent is moving up in weight and when a fighter is moving up in weight he should expect to fight bigger men

i dont know how to say it any clearer dude

[Gandalf]

It is insane to ask Marquez to jump two weight divisions at 37. If Pacquiao gets the win then he also gets no credit. Mayweather got no credit for doing this to Marquez and neither should Manny. The only way to make it half way fair is to have Pac come down to 140 and ask Marquez to make the leap to 140. Otherwise we are heading into Pac/DLH territory where most of us thought it was a mismatch and Marquez at this stage in his career, as good as he is, is unlikely to make that transition, more so with us all having seen the Mayweather fight.

sounds fair. but you and i undestand that Juan and Manny are actually the same "size" Pac's attributes just enables him to be more effective at a higher weight.

but againts each other nobody is getting blown away.

Pac has WBO Welterweight title, It just logical and fair that he defend it right?

Legacy wise fighting at catchwegiht of 141 for the welterweight title is a sore in Pac's CV

how about a straight up welterweight fight because Pac doesnt even come close to 147 anyways? IF JMM thinks that coming in at 135 benefits him then do it. Pac came in at 144 for a 150 fight.

Size doesnt matter between these 2 Miles. And i cant really absorb your concern about JMM fighting at a heavier weight when JMM can come in at his best form anyways. same as pac even if its a lot lighter than the contracted weight.

If size doesn't matter, then why not have Manny at the very least come down to 140? Even that might be a weight jump too far for a 37 year old Marquez. Manny has gone up in weight and somehow has carried this enormous power. He isn't just winning fights, but is breaking orbital bones. He didn't use to carry this kind of clout. He was heavy handed, but not like this. None of the opponents at smaller weights were getting busted up in this way. To be honest, I worry that Marquez might get get blown away if the fight is at WW. Manny has had time to grow into the weight and has stayed busy at the weight. Marquez has tried it once and looked poor, though it was against Mayweather.

Manny has all the advantages and having it at WW is simply not a fair fight. We criticised Mayweather for it and yet we are calling for Manny to be given a free pass for it? At the very least it should go to 140, so that Marquez is at least fighting somewhere near his own weight. Otherwise, it is a fight that I have a very hard time justifiying.

[miron_lang]

If size doesn't matter, then why not have Manny at the very least come down to 140?

Because Manny has a Welterweight title and his last fight was even at a higher weight plus he's not the one asking for the fight. he's the one approving

He isn't just winning fights, but is breaking orbital bones. He didn't use to carry this kind of clout. He was heavy handed, but not like this. None of the opponents at smaller weights were getting busted up in this way.

Mate as much as i respect you, You have to excuse me but you are totally wrong on this one.

he busting the bigger guys because they can absorb heavier blows. He's absolutely a Julian Jackson type of a puncher at the lower weights.

See : Chocviat, Sasakul , Lucero, Barotillo( Right hook) all kayoed with one shot

To be honest, I worry that Marquez might get get blown away if the fight is at WW. Manny has had time to grow into the weight and has stayed busy at the weight. Marquez has tried it once and looked poor, though it was against Mayweather.

Manny has all the advantages and having it at WW is simply not a fair fight. We criticised Mayweather for it and yet we are calling for Manny to be given a free pass for it? At the very least it should go to 140, so that Marquez is at least fighting somewhere near his own weight. Otherwise, it is a fight that I have a very hard time justifiying.

i think partially the opposite, I think Pac wins again but will struggle again. There's no way he blows him out. Im not joking when i say Manny is tailor made for Marquez.

JMM is the absolute counterpucher. he operates best when he's being rushed and being chased. that means more opportunities for him.

I also think he's an average fighter when facing a boxer who waits and doesnt initiate.

see Salido, John, Norwood, Floyd