Would A Prime ODLH Have Beaten Manny Pacquiao ?

[JazMerkin]

How is that better than ODLH's record ? ODLH beat better versions of Hernandez, Gatti. And also fought a prime Shane Mosley not the version who is gassed after 2 rounds, and can't beat Sergio Mora convincingly.

JMM was considered a warm up fight for Floyd Mayweather Jr, everyone knows JMM does not belong at Welterweight and had to move 2 weightclasses. And was way out of his depth and looked fleshy around the midsection. A total mismatch which should of never happened really.

Chavez, Manfredy, Hernandez, were all solid contenders, but don't really compare to guys like Camacho, Vargas, Quartey.

Phillip N'Dou was average, Zab Judah was coming off a loss to Carlos Baldomir. And outside of the one win vs Cory Spinks, lost to every elite Welterweight.

Ricky Hatton was at his best at 140 not 147, he would of beat him at any weight. But Manny Pacquiao done it in much better fashion at Ricky Hatton's weightclass, a good win but it would of been more impressive at 140.

ODLH was a part time fighter at the point, he only fought 3 times in 3 years, and still gave Floyd Mayweather Jr at competitive fight. Although he gassed in the later rounds, a good win but it would be a bit different if were talking about the late 90s ODLH.

No debate with guys like Corrales, Castillo, were rated high. And were considered top fighters when Floyd Mayweather Jr beat them.

As for your last comment, there's a difference between winning razor thin close decisions aka Whitaker, Quartey. Than getting robbed and outlanding your opponent 2 to 1 aka Mosley 2, Trinidad.

Total Punches Trinidad De La Hoya Landed 116 263
Power Punches Trinidad De La Hoya Landed 124 120


Total Punches Mosley DeLaHoya Landed 127 221 Thrown 496 616 Pct. 26% 36%
Power Punches Mosley DeLaHoya Landed 94 115 Thrown 228 320 Pct. 41% 36%

Sorry, Ice I'm totally with GB here. You use the natural weight argument against PBF's win at Hatton then totally disregard it saying ODLH beat a better version of Genaro Hernandez & Gatti, who were both well out of their natural weight far more obviously than Hatton.

You say ODLH was a part-time fighter, but PBF had fought only 5 times in the preceding 3 years. He was also outweighed by at least 15lbs probably more.

You criticize some of the opponents that GB has chosen, but you set the bar low by putting in guys like Oba Carr & David Kamau. Don't give me that solid contenders, they were horribly found out against anyone half decent. Hell, if you include them then why not Baldomir, Corley or Sharmba Mitchell.

Last point, fights aren't won on punch stats, they're won on rounds won. I thought Oscar's robbery defeat to Trinidad was more than evened out by his win against Sturm & I've long thought that the HBO commentators played up the ODLH-Mosley robbery angle. I thought Mosley did enough over the 2nd half of the fight to take it & actually you'll find most at ringside thought the same if you look into it. I can see Oscar winning, but not a robbery imo.

[ICB]

How is that better than ODLH's record ? ODLH beat better versions of Hernandez, Gatti. And also fought a prime Shane Mosley not the version who is gassed after 2 rounds, and can't beat Sergio Mora convincingly.

JMM was considered a warm up fight for Floyd Mayweather Jr, everyone knows JMM does not belong at Welterweight and had to move 2 weightclasses. And was way out of his depth and looked fleshy around the midsection. A total mismatch which should of never happened really.

Chavez, Manfredy, Hernandez, were all solid contenders, but don't really compare to guys like Camacho, Vargas, Quartey.

Phillip N'Dou was average, Zab Judah was coming off a loss to Carlos Baldomir. And outside of the one win vs Cory Spinks, lost to every elite Welterweight.

Ricky Hatton was at his best at 140 not 147, he would of beat him at any weight. But Manny Pacquiao done it in much better fashion at Ricky Hatton's weightclass, a good win but it would of been more impressive at 140.

ODLH was a part time fighter at the point, he only fought 3 times in 3 years, and still gave Floyd Mayweather Jr at competitive fight. Although he gassed in the later rounds, a good win but it would be a bit different if were talking about the late 90s ODLH.

No debate with guys like Corrales, Castillo, were rated high. And were considered top fighters when Floyd Mayweather Jr beat them.

As for your last comment, there's a difference between winning razor thin close decisions aka Whitaker, Quartey. Than getting robbed and outlanding your opponent 2 to 1 aka Mosley 2, Trinidad.

Total Punches Trinidad De La Hoya Landed 116 263
Power Punches Trinidad De La Hoya Landed 124 120


Total Punches Mosley DeLaHoya Landed 127 221 Thrown 496 616 Pct. 26% 36%
Power Punches Mosley DeLaHoya Landed 94 115 Thrown 228 320 Pct. 41% 36%

Sorry, Ice I'm totally with GB here. You use the natural weight argument against PBF's win at Hatton then totally disregard it saying ODLH beat a better version of Genaro Hernandez & Gatti, who were both well out of their natural weight far more obviously than Hatton.

You say ODLH was a part-time fighter, but PBF had fought only 5 times in the preceding 3 years. He was also outweighed by at least 15lbs probably more.

You criticize some of the opponents that GB has chosen, but you set the bar low by putting in guys like Oba Carr & David Kamau. Don't give me that solid contenders, they were horribly found out against anyone half decent. Hell, if you include them then why not Baldomir, Corley or Sharmba Mitchell.

Last point, fights aren't won on punch stats, they're won on rounds won. I thought Oscar's robbery defeat to Trinidad was more than evened out by his win against Sturm & I've long thought that the HBO commentators played up the ODLH-Mosley robbery angle. I thought Mosley did enough over the 2nd half of the fight to take it & actually you'll find most at ringside thought the same if you look into it. I can see Oscar winning, but not a robbery imo.

I'll just give some quick answers because im busy.

Genaro Hernandez was still fresher when he fought ODLH, so was Arturo Gatti.

ODLH was 2-2 when he fought Floyd Mayweather Jr, thats totally different circumstances to Floyd Mayweather Jr. Plus as i said 4 fights in 4 years its obvious he was a part time fighter at that point.

I never said there bad fighters i just said there nothing special, and i never said fighters like Carr, Kamau, were special. I just think overall ODLH has the better record.

I agree they don't tell the whole story in some cases, but in this case they do. ODLH dominated a majority of the rounds in both fights. Yes in both fights he allowed the fights to get closer because he lost the later rounds.

But mathematically how is it even possible either man got the win ? yes they may of not been outright robberies. But its robbery due to the fact that the worse ODLH could of done was a draw, and you would have to be being very generous to both fighters. Because there's no way either of them won 7 rounds.

[Violent Demise]

Sorry, Ice I'm totally with GB here. You use the natural weight argument against PBF's win at Hatton then totally disregard it saying ODLH beat a better version of Genaro Hernandez & Gatti, who were both well out of their natural weight far more obviously than Hatton.

You say ODLH was a part-time fighter, but PBF had fought only 5 times in the preceding 3 years. He was also outweighed by at least 15lbs probably more.

You criticize some of the opponents that GB has chosen, but you set the bar low by putting in guys like Oba Carr & David Kamau. Don't give me that solid contenders, they were horribly found out against anyone half decent. Hell, if you include them then why not Baldomir, Corley or Sharmba Mitchell.

Last point, fights aren't won on punch stats, they're won on rounds won. I thought Oscar's robbery defeat to Trinidad was more than evened out by his win against Sturm & I've long thought that the HBO commentators played up the ODLH-Mosley robbery angle. I thought Mosley did enough over the 2nd half of the fight to take it & actually you'll find most at ringside thought the same if you look into it. I can see Oscar winning, but not a robbery imo.

Hernandez fought damn near his whole career at 130. He moved up to 135 to fight Oscar. He was not well out his natural weight

And in his prime Oba Carr only lost to Oscar De La Hoya, Felix Trinidad and Ike Quartey. Them were more than half decent. Carr was a very good fighter. By the time he lost to Pineda he was already done

[JazMerkin]

Sorry, Ice I'm totally with GB here. You use the natural weight argument against PBF's win at Hatton then totally disregard it saying ODLH beat a better version of Genaro Hernandez & Gatti, who were both well out of their natural weight far more obviously than Hatton.

You say ODLH was a part-time fighter, but PBF had fought only 5 times in the preceding 3 years. He was also outweighed by at least 15lbs probably more.

You criticize some of the opponents that GB has chosen, but you set the bar low by putting in guys like Oba Carr & David Kamau. Don't give me that solid contenders, they were horribly found out against anyone half decent. Hell, if you include them then why not Baldomir, Corley or Sharmba Mitchell.

Last point, fights aren't won on punch stats, they're won on rounds won. I thought Oscar's robbery defeat to Trinidad was more than evened out by his win against Sturm & I've long thought that the HBO commentators played up the ODLH-Mosley robbery angle. I thought Mosley did enough over the 2nd half of the fight to take it & actually you'll find most at ringside thought the same if you look into it. I can see Oscar winning, but not a robbery imo.

Hernandez fought damn near his whole career at 130. He moved up to 135 to fight Oscar. He was not well out his natural weight

And in his prime Oba Carr only lost to Oscar De La Hoya, Felix Trinidad and Ike Quartey. Them were more than half decent. Carr was a very good fighter. By the time he lost to Pineda he was already done

My point was that he was no more 'out of his weight' than Hatton was at 147. I disagree on Oba Carr, he lost to those guys but an old Frankie Randall aside who did he ever beat? No disgrace in losing to those guys, but he never looked above domestic level for me.

I'll just give some quick answers because im busy.

Genaro Hernandez was still fresher when he fought ODLH, so was Arturo Gatti.

ODLH was 2-2 when he fought Floyd Mayweather Jr, thats totally different circumstances to Floyd Mayweather Jr. Plus as i said 4 fights in 4 years its obvious he was a part time fighter at that point.

I never said there bad fighters i just said there nothing special, and i never said fighters like Carr, Kamau, were special. I just think overall ODLH has the better record.

I agree they don't tell the whole story in some cases, but in this case they do. ODLH dominated a majority of the rounds in both fights. Yes in both fights he allowed the fights to get closer because he lost the later rounds.

But mathematically how is it even possible either man got the win ? yes they may of not been outright robberies. But its robbery due to the fact that the worse ODLH could of done was a draw, and you would have to be being very generous to both fighters. Because there's no way either of them won 7 rounds.

To Ice's point, you can't justify Pacquiao's win over Hatton as better than PBF's because it was at 140 & THEN say that ODLH's wins over Genaro & Gatti were better because they were fresher. So because Oscar was 2-2, that somehow meant he was shot. As you pointed out defending him, one of those was against a bigger B-Hop & the other a 'robbery' against Shane Mosley. All I'm saying is as inactive as he'd been inthe previous 3 years, PBF had only been marginally more active. He also heavily outweighed him.

It's cool that you think Oscar has the better record bro, it's just others like me & GB think Floyd has the better record. Your post gets a little bit contradictory in the last paragraph, but I'll say this. The majority of those ringside for Mosley-Oscar II had Shane winning. Those watching on tv had Oscar winning. I personally thought when I watched it that Shane won 7-5, but wouldn't have argued either way. I can't remember my scorecard, but when I have time I'll rewatch & repost what I come up with. I agree there was no way you could have Trinidad winning the fight imo, but any fight where the scorecards are at all close is subjective, just because you see it one way doesn't mean that's how everyone sees it.

[IronDanLaw]

Yes, but Manny would have had a very good chance, only because even in his prime De La Hoya did not fight for 3 minutes every round.

[No Contest]

It would have been alot closer than the beating ODLH took when he was weight drained thats for sure. His biggest problem was he wasnt able to rehydrate and only gained a few pounds between weigh in and the fight. He really messed up his nutrition that fight. Still I think prime for prime Pac beats him with that pressure. ODLH was good when he was allowed to control the pace of fights with his jab, Pac just bum rushed him.