Pacman vs JMM 11/5 2011 at.........145

[rjj tszyu]

And for the record I think Marquez has a better chance than anyone else who has fought Pac recently even out of his comfort zone. I repeat Pac CANNOT handle good counter punchers, it's a glaring weakness and JMM is the second best counter puncher in the world, hence the reason Arum had to pay the judges off twice to rob JMM in the past.

[CutMeMick]

I'm not gonna go back and forth with all this weight bullshit...

The fight is on and Nov. 5th can't come soon enough for me.
I'll let JMM do the talking in the ring for me.

Juan como me dijiste una vez en Las Vegas despues de tu pelea contro Victor Polo.
Peleo con el corazon y nunca pierdo la fe, porque la virgencita siempre esta con migo.

Guerra Juan Manuel! Hasta al final...

[KananKrus]

I have already explained why Manny loses the chance to gain massive credit if he beats Marquez at 144. He has made no sacrifice to give the fans a more equal playing field. Even Oscar, who we all criticised gave up something, but Manny gives up nothing. Meanwhile Marquez is being asked to jump all the hurdles.

Of course Marquez deserves the credit if he wins and of course Manny should be criticised right now for making the fight at a 144 CW. You don't expect a smaller guy to jump all the hurdles while you jump through none. That isn't credit worthy. Marquez has NO track record at WW. Manny prior to Cotto did, whence criticism of the CW.

The argument is pretty consistent.

Miles, take a pause, are you "fully aware" that Marquez in his own stipulations was pursuing this fight with Pacquiao at a catchweight of 143lbs, right?

I guess then, the hell you are raising and the names you've disparaged along the way... was caused by the "mere" pound that was not granted in making this fight...

I don't know, a pound off of a targeted weight for a fight seem so minimal and inconsequential as to raise such a foul howl!

...some people can really be dramatic if they get their marshmallows afire.

Full text from The Examiner...
Marquez wants Manny Pacquiao to meet him at 143 pounds for 'Trilogy' fight - National Fight Sports | Examiner.com

[p4pking]

What are the rules regarding a minumum weight if they weren't officially fighting for a belt, anyone know? I just can't see any reason Marquez should put on one pound to fight Pacquiao, it does nothing for him whatsoever. I don't see him beating Pacquiao(again imo) at 140 or above as it is, but if Marquez in fact HAD to weigh 140? It puts him at a clear disadvantage. He had Manny's number and may still do, but Pacquiao has undoubtedly become a bigger stronger fighter since they met last, and Marquez is ancient for a featherweight. Id love to see another great fight between these two, and it indeed is as good a fight out there for Pacquiao barring Mayweather or Martinez. Would absolutely hate to see Marquez get stopped for the first time trying to fight a welterweight again though.

[miron_lang]

people are making this thing a complicated one where in fact its quite simple.


Manny Pacquiao was able to manhandle bigger fellas at Weltweweight not because he became a big dude himself. The heaviest he has weigh in a fight is 148lbs. He was able to destroy them big fellas because of his speed and power w/c he already have from the start. People (except Hatton) are being beaten up to 12 rounds while at the lower weights only the three Mexicans Morales, Marquez and Barrera have reached 12 rounds


Manny Pacquiao is not so much bigger than Marquez. only people w/c made up their mind to descredit Pacquiao thinks Pac is a lot bigger. Mosley towers over Pacquiao if you all didnt noticed.

--

Both JMM and PAC are 145 to 148 lbs fighters at fight night.

[p4pking]

people are making this thing a complicated one where in fact its quite simple.


Manny Pacquiao was able to manhandle bigger fellas at Weltweweight not because he became a big dude himself. The heaviest he has weigh in a fight is 148lbs. He was able to destroy them big fellas because of his speed and power w/c he already have from the start. People (except Hatton) are being beaten up to 12 rounds while at the lower weights only the three Mexicans Morales, Marquez and Barrera have reached 12 rounds


Manny Pacquiao is not so much bigger than Marquez. only people w/c made up their mind to descredit Pacquiao thinks Pac is a lot bigger. Mosley towers over Pacquiao if you all didnt noticed.

--

Both JMM and PAC are 145 to 148 lbs fighters at fight night.

Noone said Manny is beating guys his own size, or that he is much bigger than Marquez. The fact is that very few fighters in history have been able to RETAIN their speed and power while moving up several weight classes. Marquez has already shown that he can not, for instance. However since Pacquiao has actually beaten all of his willing adversaries in a higher weight class, the best fight for him is now against a man his own size in Marquez. I imagine most people simply feel it would be most impressive and make for the best fight, if he were to meet Marquez at a weight they are both comfortable and effective at.

[Gandalf]

I have already explained why Manny loses the chance to gain massive credit if he beats Marquez at 144. He has made no sacrifice to give the fans a more equal playing field. Even Oscar, who we all criticised gave up something, but Manny gives up nothing. Meanwhile Marquez is being asked to jump all the hurdles.

Of course Marquez deserves the credit if he wins and of course Manny should be criticised right now for making the fight at a 144 CW. You don't expect a smaller guy to jump all the hurdles while you jump through none. That isn't credit worthy. Marquez has NO track record at WW. Manny prior to Cotto did, whence criticism of the CW.

The argument is pretty consistent.

Miles, take a pause, are you "fully aware" that Marquez in his own stipulations was pursuing this fight with Pacquiao at a catchweight of 143lbs, right?

I guess then, the hell you are raising and the names you've disparaged along the way... was caused by the "mere" pound that was not granted in making this fight...

I don't know, a pound off of a targeted weight for a fight seem so minimal and inconsequential as to raise such a foul howl!

...some people can really be dramatic if they get their marshmallows afire.

Full text from The Examiner...
Marquez wants Manny Pacquiao to meet him at 143 pounds for 'Trilogy' fight - National Fight Sports | Examiner.com

I think he is barking mad. The man would sell his own leg to get another fight with Pacquiao, he has certainly sold his weight.

He knows more than I do, so I am just going to have to assume that he knows what he is doing, but I am extremely uneasy about this CW business. Manny has all the balls firmly in his court whilst Marquez simply has big balls.

[Kev]

This is such a nonsense argument.

Manny and Marquez are the same size appox and as has been said earlier what matters is the weight they actually fight at, not weigh in at.

There will be no more than a couple pounds natural weight difference either way, certainly nowhere the 17 lb disasvantage Manny overcame to batter Margarito.

I just love the mental gymnastics and ridiculous logic you haters have to spout at us in order to avoid the obvious elephant in the room.

Manny was able to move up and beat Oscar, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosley because right now he is a better fighter than Marquez.

All of this weight bullshit is just a weak attempt to veil the obvious.

Manny is a beast at welterweight, it's where he now belongs. If Marquez wants to challenge him for a third time he should do what Manny has had to do and move up for fuck's sake.

All of this 'Manny must move down for it to be a fair fight' is just a display of your true feelings, being that you just want to see Manny lose.

[IamInuit]

What are the rules regarding a minumum weight if they weren't officially fighting for a belt, anyone know? I just can't see any reason Marquez should put on one pound to fight Pacquiao, it does nothing for him whatsoever. I don't see him beating Pacquiao(again imo) at 140 or above as it is, but if Marquez in fact HAD to weigh 140? It puts him at a clear disadvantage. He had Manny's number and may still do, but Pacquiao has undoubtedly become a bigger stronger fighter since they met last, and Marquez is ancient for a featherweight. Id love to see another great fight between these two, and it indeed is as good a fight out there for Pacquiao barring Mayweather or Martinez. Would absolutely hate to see Marquez get stopped for the first time trying to fight a welterweight again though.

Modern day 141. Armstrong's day it didn't matter. He won the welter crown when he weighed in at 135.Weight is one of the biggest cop outs in boxing. In a 17 division system it’s even more of a joke. This is an era where welter weights are fighting at lightweight and middle weights are fighting at welter. This absurd notion that Manny is some kind of giant against Marquez is just that. It’s actually borderline comical.

[Gandalf]

This is such a nonsense argument.

Manny and Marquez are the same size appox and as has been said earlier what matters is the weight they actually fight at, not weigh in at.

There will be no more than a couple pounds natural weight difference either way, certainly nowhere the 17 lb disasvantage Manny overcame to batter Margarito.

I just love the mental gymnastics and ridiculous logic you haters have to spout at us in order to avoid the obvious elephant in the room.

Manny was able to move up and beat Oscar, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosley because right now he is a better fighter than Marquez.

All of this weight bullshit is just a weak attempt to veil the obvious.

Manny is a beast at welterweight, it's where he now belongs. If Marquez wants to challenge him for a third time he should do what Manny has had to do and move up for fuck's sake.

All of this 'Manny must move down for it to be a fair fight' is just a display of your true feelings, being that you just want to see Manny lose.

Is the fight not at 144, what are you arguing about Bilbo?

You have your wish, a man who has grown into the weight with speed and power fighting another man way out of his ideal weight.

If it was to be a fair fight then Marquez would be allowed to weigh in at 140 and Manny the same, they could then rehydrate to what they like. But what we have here instead is a man quite used to weighing in at this weight and another man who isn't and has no track record at the weight.

What I propose is an even playing field. One man comes down and another man goes up, but what we now have is one man who has built his frame and is used to the weight and another man who now has to start from scratch much like against PBF.

It is an immediate disadvantage.

[Kev]

I'm not gonna go back and forth with all this weight bullshit...

The fight is on and Nov. 5th can't come soon enough for me.
I'll let JMM do the talking in the ring for me.

Juan como me dijiste una vez en Las Vegas despues de tu pelea contro Victor Polo.
Peleo con el corazon y nunca pierdo la fe, porque la virgencita siempre esta con migo.

Guerra Juan Manuel! Hasta al final...

For those of us who speak and believe English should be the only language of the forum...

John and I once said in Las Vegas after your fight against Victor Polo.
I fight with heart and never lose faith, because the virgin is always with me.

Juan Manuel Guerra! Until the end ...

[Kev]

This is such a nonsense argument.

Manny and Marquez are the same size appox and as has been said earlier what matters is the weight they actually fight at, not weigh in at.

There will be no more than a couple pounds natural weight difference either way, certainly nowhere the 17 lb disasvantage Manny overcame to batter Margarito.

I just love the mental gymnastics and ridiculous logic you haters have to spout at us in order to avoid the obvious elephant in the room.

Manny was able to move up and beat Oscar, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosley because right now he is a better fighter than Marquez.

All of this weight bullshit is just a weak attempt to veil the obvious.

Manny is a beast at welterweight, it's where he now belongs. If Marquez wants to challenge him for a third time he should do what Manny has had to do and move up for fuck's sake.

All of this 'Manny must move down for it to be a fair fight' is just a display of your true feelings, being that you just want to see Manny lose.

Is the fight not at 144, what are you arguing about Bilbo?

You have your wish, a man who has grown into the weight with speed and power fighting another man way out of his ideal weight.

If it was to be a fair fight then Marquez would be allowed to weigh in at 140 and Manny the same, they could then rehydrate to what they like. But what we have here instead is a man quite used to weighing in at this weight and another man who isn't and has no track record at the weight.

What I propose is an even playing field. One man comes down and another man goes up, but what we now have is one man who has built his frame and is used to the weight and another man who now has to start from scratch much like against PBF.

It is an immediate disadvantage.

He's agreed to come down to 144. That's in line with the other fighters Manny fought, like Cotto and Margarito who you all said were massively weight drained corpses as a result of this cruel, manipulative cheating by team Pacman.

How can you with a straight face claim it was wrong for Manny to fight bigger guys at catchweight as the advantage was too strongly in his favour and now when he himself is giving up weight argue that once again it is in his favour.

The point you are missing is that the reason you always think it favours Pac is because of the result, i.e he destroys everybody he fights.

Now to unbiased observer this would be a sign of his greatness, but as you have already rejected that notion 'a priori' you have to reject that self evident conclusion and instead go with weight manipulation. Manny is amazing at 147 because he merely adjusts to the weight better than Marquez who, despite being better than Manny cannot fight bigger men as well because of some unfortunate makeup in his biochemistry,

It's absurd.

Both men will likely weigh in within a pound of each on the night, you are just already making excuses to detract from Manny's coming win.

[ICB]

JMM when he rehydrates is probably close to 142 or something like that, i just think he's more shopworn now. But im still hoping my boy gives him a good go.

[Gandalf]

This is such a nonsense argument.

Manny and Marquez are the same size appox and as has been said earlier what matters is the weight they actually fight at, not weigh in at.

There will be no more than a couple pounds natural weight difference either way, certainly nowhere the 17 lb disasvantage Manny overcame to batter Margarito.

I just love the mental gymnastics and ridiculous logic you haters have to spout at us in order to avoid the obvious elephant in the room.

Manny was able to move up and beat Oscar, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosley because right now he is a better fighter than Marquez.

All of this weight bullshit is just a weak attempt to veil the obvious.

Manny is a beast at welterweight, it's where he now belongs. If Marquez wants to challenge him for a third time he should do what Manny has had to do and move up for fuck's sake.

All of this 'Manny must move down for it to be a fair fight' is just a display of your true feelings, being that you just want to see Manny lose.

Is the fight not at 144, what are you arguing about Bilbo?

You have your wish, a man who has grown into the weight with speed and power fighting another man way out of his ideal weight.

If it was to be a fair fight then Marquez would be allowed to weigh in at 140 and Manny the same, they could then rehydrate to what they like. But what we have here instead is a man quite used to weighing in at this weight and another man who isn't and has no track record at the weight.

What I propose is an even playing field. One man comes down and another man goes up, but what we now have is one man who has built his frame and is used to the weight and another man who now has to start from scratch much like against PBF.

It is an immediate disadvantage.

He's agreed to come down to 144. That's in line with the other fighters Manny fought, like Cotto and Margarito who you all said were massively weight drained corpses as a result of this cruel, manipulative cheating by team Pacman.

How can you with a straight face claim it was wrong for Manny to fight bigger guys at catchweight as the advantage was too strongly in his favour and now when he himself is giving up weight argue that once again it is in his favour.

The point you are missing is that the reason you always think it favours Pac is because of the result, i.e he destroys everybody he fights.

Now to unbiased observer this would be a sign of his greatness, but as you have already rejected that notion 'a priori' you have to reject that self evident conclusion and instead go with weight manipulation. Manny is amazing at 147 because he merely adjusts to the weight better than Marquez who, despite being better than Manny cannot fight bigger men as well because of some unfortunate makeup in his biochemistry,

It's absurd.

Both men will likely weigh in within a pound of each on the night, you are just already making excuses to detract from Manny's coming win.

My goodness.

He has agreed to 'come down' to 144 you say. That is not coming down, his own camp says he eats children to maintain his current bodyweight. The man could very easily make 140. The only way to equal things out is have both fighters compromise and settle with an equal day before weigh in as that is all we have, that weight would be 140.

All we have here is an unequal weigh in. Manny has been practicing this weight game with the big plodders for 2 years, Marquez hasn't. Okay, maybe they come in at similar weights, but one has been preparing for it for 2 years, the other has done it only once.

Manny has all the natural advantages. Manny IS the bigger and stronger fighter. Marquez is the far more intelligent, but that has been partly nullified with this CW nonsense.

[killersheep]

As long as the fight happens I'm happy. That and I hope it's for the middleweight Diamond Belt, that would really make it worth it.