Chuck Wepner's knockdown of Muhammad Ali 1975

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Philosopher are you really that dense?

A 4.2 on the creative insult scale. Well done.

Are you really missing my point regarding Shane Mosely?! He admitted to using PEDs... But he never failed one of your so called advanced tests. Not failing a test is not a get out of jail free card. Boxing's tests are weak and the fact that they are scheduled make masking and cycling very easy

So what you're basically saying is Mosley was on PEDS then? Dumbass admitted it and u just shot yourself in the foot too! Funny thing though this PED thing because my argument that testing is far more advanced these days is supported by the fact that more & more fighters are being outed lately!

Look at Wach or Tarver or Peterson! A K2 opponent has just been caught so unless they have some serious anti-detection squad beavering away on there behalf i suggest they are clean! Either that or they are Wizards! Just to be clear though adam...are you saying K2 are using steroids? A simple yes or no.

Fuck off, don't feed me that shit...

Less shouting and less effing valerie please! You have already stated test's are weak so which is it? You don't buy clean test's yet you don't buy the 'evans fields' thing which pretty has him banged to right's and you don't but Tyson was a candidate for roid's when he operated in the 80's & early 90's and was a walking headcase bursting at the seams! I will reserve judgement on Tyson for now. Yes VK failed a test as an amateur but he has remained clean ever since, benefit of the doubt must be given. I would like also your thoughts on WK? Your girlfriend (the one u came to the aid of!) seem's to think he is on roid's do u agree? I'm assuming u do as you claimed my argument was pretty weak (my argument being he is not!) My argument was also that VK is not comparable to Savarese i assume you disagree with me on that too? I am arguing for the incident in his amateur days' being a one off too as supported by the clean test's he has consistantly passed in this much stricter modern era! VK has admitted to this incident and i as a fan acknowledged it happened too. However he has been clean ever since. The incident was a one off prescribed by a quack to treat an injury those are the fact's.

You'll actually believe Holyfield's excuse that he was using to treat hormone problems and injuries... right? Being unbiased and all.

Holy by all account's had an entire pharmacy at his disposal LOL America is the drug capital of the world the Ukraine 20 years ago treated headaches with nettle soup. A Doping programme in the Ukraine was about as likely as a free NHS would be in the states today!

When teenage tyson was robbing people, beating up garbage men and womanizing before he'd even boxed he had roid rage?

Tyson was a disgusting individual who by your own admission robbed, raped and beat up people yet it is unfathomable to you to suggest he was on roid's? In the 80's aswell! LOL. Hardly a pillar of the community with impeccable moral virtue was he? Can u make yourself look more of an ignoramous?

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

My grammar doesn't need to be perfect... You're the one who originally brought grammar in to the discussion, not me.

Can I point out your hypocrisy with a typo present? I'd say yes.

I'm happy for you that I made that typo though (and probably your day), as it's all you seem to have been able to come back with (nothing relevant to anything remotely topical )... Your heart must have jumped when you saw it!

Did i bring grammar ino the discusson with u? Or did u butt in? You got baited. Sarcasm escapes u too i see. Can we have more of your outrage over the slur on Tyson's character? That part was funny...

Spellcheck please.

[AdamGB]

Are you really missing what I'm saying about Shane Mosely?! Jesus Christ... It's so fucking simple.

I KNOW he admitted to taking PEDs, he didn't fail any tests in this modern era of 'more advanced testing' (as you see it)... Not because he didn't cheat, but because the tests are very lax.

Shane Mosely admits to cheating and still failed zero tests. He is proof positive that your claim that Vitali not failing tests as a pro cannot and does not remove all suspicion that he is 100%

I am outraged at a slur on Tyson? I just told you he was an awful person?! You claimed that steroids gave him roid rage and made him a bad person. I told you he was ALREADY a bad person.

Talk about missing the point, how can anyone expect to discuss things with you when you can't even follow a simple, linear argument?

So in the early 90s in ukraine they treat headaches with 'nettle soup', but a leg injury with anabolic steroids?

Great, I assume they also use sledgehammers to pin paper to pin boards?

A drugs program in the soviet block? :0 Unheard of!

When did I say I didn't buy the Evan Fields fiasco? I said that if you buy Vitali's 'the dr gave me magic pills for my poorly leg' excuse then you have to buy Holyfield's 'dr gave me magic pills for my health problems' excuse. You can't choose only one... Not unless you're a nut hugger. I think both excuse are bullshit... You're apparently happy to believe the one that lets you not think that your hero never knowingly cheated.


You think Tyson is a likely candidate for PED use based on the water tight evidence of 'Evander's friend says so', but you DON'T think Vitali is a likely candidate for PED use based on the undisputable fact that his history shows that he has been willing to use PEDs. That's all this comes down to.

Don't ever claim not to be a biased, nut hugging fanboy please.

[AdamGB]

My grammar doesn't need to be perfect... You're the one who originally brought grammar in to the discussion, not me.

Can I point out your hypocrisy with a typo present? I'd say yes.

I'm happy for you that I made that typo though (and probably your day), as it's all you seem to have been able to come back with (nothing relevant to anything remotely topical )... Your heart must have jumped when you saw it!

Did i bring grammar ino the discusson with u? Or did u butt in? You got baited. Sarcasm escapes u too i see. Can we have more of your outrage over the slur on Tyson's character? That part was funny...

Spellcheck please.

You tried a little bit too hard with the shitty spelling there. Sorry.
I don't think you quite grasp that my grammar doesn't need to be perfect to point out that resorting to critiquing a poster's grammar as a last resort because all of your other arguments have fallen flat, whilst possessing terrible grammar of your own is hypocritical?

I don't care if you weren't talking to me and I 'butted in'. This is an open forum and if your shit stinks then other posters can and will call you out on it.

Hypocrites and fanboy nuthuggers aren't liked on most message boards, this place is no different.

[brocktonblockbust]

My grammar doesn't need to be perfect... You're the one who originally brought grammar in to the discussion, not me.

Can I point out your hypocrisy with a typo present? I'd say yes.

I'm happy for you that I made that typo though (and probably your day), as it's all you seem to have been able to come back with (nothing relevant to anything remotely topical )... Your heart must have jumped when you saw it!

Did i bring grammar ino the discusson with u? Or did u butt in? You got baited. Sarcasm escapes u too i see. Can we have more of your outrage over the slur on Tyson's character? That part was funny...

Spellcheck please.

You tried a little bit too hard with the shitty spelling there. Sorry.
I don't think you quite grasp that my grammar doesn't need to be perfect to point out that resorting to critiquing a poster's grammar as a last resort because all of your other arguments have fallen flat, whilst possessing terrible grammar of your own is hypocritical?

I don't care if you weren't talking to me and I 'butted in'. This is an open forum and if your shit stinks then other posters can and will call you out on it.

Hypocrites and fanboy nuthuggers aren't liked on most message boards, this place is no different.

fragrant as hell

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Are you really missing what I'm saying about Shane Mosely?! Jesus Christ... It's so fucking simple.

Ya i get what you're saying don't have a meltdown , im just asking the question do u think Mosley was on PEDS then Yes or no? With regards to VK, look It's all here- documented in this well-respected article written by a proper journalist at a proper paper. It is also discussed at length by Vitali in his Autobiography

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/oth...oid-abuse.html

Now, I have read ALL of Holyfields books, and he does not discuss the Evan Fields phone call at all.

"He went to a normal Ukrainian doctor who gave him something that would heal it, but he didn't check the doping list," Boente said.

Klitschko admits that it was a steroid - and shortly afterwards the substance showed up in a routine drug test.

"They are not keeping this a secret," Boente said. "You have to remember this was the Ukraine of eight or nine years ago. Things are very different now.

"At first he was totally angry. He couldn't believe it."

In his eight-year professional career, Klitschko has been tested routinely for banned substances, including steroids, and has always been clean.

Tests for steroids are normal in Germany, where he had the majority of his contests during his rise to the championship. I believe he is a clean proffesional. You don't have too, its that simple!

I KNOW he admitted to taking PEDs, he didn't fail any tests in this modern era of 'more advanced testing' (as you see it)... Not because he didn't cheat, but because the tests are very lax.

Ya i get the Mosley thing i am just trying to ascertain wether you think VK is an habitual abuser? Yes or no? Simple answers are all i want. With regards to WK (u neglected to answer my question regarding him again) Give me some sources. Quotes. Something like the Evan Fields story, something that will stand up in the Court of Public Opinion. You think he is an abuser too then right?

Shane Mosely admits to cheating and still failed zero tests. He is proof positive that your claim that Vitali not failing tests as a pro cannot and does not remove all suspicion that he is 100%

Well i have my opinion you have yours. He freely discusses the subject and has remained clean. Do u agree Mosley was on them then? Holy? Yes or no?

I am outraged at a slur on Tyson? I just told you he was an awful person?! You claimed that steroids gave him roid rage and made him a bad person. I told you he was ALREADY a bad person.

So do u think it a possibility Tyson was on them? I never said they gave him roid rage i said he was a good candidate for roid rage and that i will reserve judgement.

So in the early 90s in ukraine they treat headaches with 'nettle soup', but a leg injury with anabolic steroids?

Was it an anabolic steroid?

Great, I assume they also use sledgehammers to pin paper to pin boards?

Why would they? Just use your hands.

A drugs program in the soviet block? :0 Unheard of!

The Old Soviet System that collapsed in....1990, 1991
They turned pro in 1996 after the ATLANTA OLYMPICS and everyone knows, in 1996 there was no Soviet System, they went to Germany in any case......

....not even David Haye made any accusations.

When did I say I didn't buy the Evan Fields fiasco? I said that if you buy Vitali's 'the dr gave me magic pills for my poorly leg' excuse then you have to buy Holyfield's 'dr gave me magic pills for my health problems' excuse. You can't choose only one... Not unless you're a nut hugger. I think both excuse are bullshit... You're apparently happy to believe the one that lets you not think that your hero never knowingly cheated.

Ironically, the only guy who volunteered to WADA testing was Wlad, and the only guy who openly discusses a failed test, in an AutoBio, of all places, is Vitali. VK is happy to discuss the subject and Wlad is massively anti-roids. Don't think he would be happy with a juiced up VK do u? Don't u think VK would sweep this under the carpet at all costs?

You think Tyson is a likely candidate for PED use based on the water tight evidence of 'Evander's friend says so', but you DON'T think Vitali is a likely candidate for PED use based on the undisputable fact that his history shows that he has been willing to use PEDs. That's all this comes down to.:

No not just because of that becuse he was a clear head case, his behaviour in the ring aswell as out of it was disgusting! He operated in the drug addled 80's too. Didn't Teddy Atlas also say Tyson was on them? Could be wrong. You yourself said clean test's are no proof of anything so it is entirely feesable to suggest Tyson may have been on them when you take into account his behaviour and his willingness to sink to every low depth imaginable.

Just how good was the testing back in the days of the Don King Ring? LOL Tyson is American and as long as there is money to be made by unscrupulous types he could do what he likes.

Don't ever claim not to be a biased, nut hugging fanboy please.

U sound upset?

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

I don't think you quite grasp that my grammar doesn't need to be perfect to point out that resorting to critiquing a poster's grammar as a last resort because all of your other arguments have fallen flat, whilst possessing terrible grammar of your own is hypocritical?

I don't care if you weren't talking to me and I 'butted in'. This is an open forum and if your shit stinks then other posters can and will call you out on it.

Hypocrites and fanboy nuthuggers aren't liked on most message boards, this place is no different.

Actually i was emphasising how dumb he was after he suggested VK is comparable to Savarese and WK is a juicer! That was my argument cupcake not his grammar. Do u agree with his assertion? Yes or no? You must do as i disagree with him and my argument is based on both of those statements being utter bullcrap.

I pointed out 'Flawed' is not comparable to 'Floored' that was all...it was a way of emphasising what a fuckstick he is! (Note also that he never got back to me because he knows that non-title winning Savarese is not comparable to VK and that Wlad openly volunteered to WADA testing!) Are u his lover or summat?

You then got on your high horse with that pretentious conjunction crap and fucked your post up anyway! LOL. Oh and that 'Popster' thing it was a deliberate typo same with the 'U's etc

Well done for highlighting it and doing the exact same thing u r critiquing me for. Sucker. LOL only playing...

Simple really, i am just trying to establish your stance on the following as you call my argument weak:

-VK is an habitual steroid abuser?

-Wk is a juicer?

-Savarese is comparable to VK?

I disagree with all 3.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

fragrant as hell

Better than your “Used Clothing” Odor!



I feel your pain hater's, Honest

[AdamGB]

I hear a lot of people talking about 'haters' these days... Usually it's by people who want to use it as a catch all phrase to dismiss anybody who raises a legitimate point or criticism against them. Just saying.

You're really not getting it are you?...

I'm not saying Wlad is definitely a cheat
I'm not saying that Vitali is definitely a cheat (anymore)
I'm not saying Tyson definitely wasn't a cheat
I'm definitely NOT saying that Evan Fields didn't catch Evander red handed

I did not give a definite stance on any, nor do I mean to. You've shown that you can't follow a linear argument or have an objective discussion. As I said, I'm just here to tell you your shit stinks of fanboy, that's all...

I AM saying that your K2 nuthugging is causing a great deal of inconsistent logic from you...

You don't believe Holyfield when he uses the 'I didn't know what I was taking, it was from a Dr. to treat a health condition/injury' excuse that EVERYBODY who gets caught uses... So why believe it when Vitali says the same bullshit?

You think Holyfield 'knowing a guy who knows a guy who says Tyson took PEDs' is worthy of discussion, but you dismiss anybody raising their eyebrows at Vitali actually failing a test as a 'hater'.

How can you not see the double standards.

I'm glad you finally understand that Shane Mosely and Evander Holyfield are proof that you can use PEDs in this age and still not fail a test... Fuck, it only took me 4 posts to get it through your skull.

The drawing pin analogy seems to have gone over you head though, I'd dumb it down for you, but I can't be bothered to post 4 more times.

As for Vitali's kickboxing injury, is this the same thigh injury he made up instead of just admitting that Pele Reid kicked him in the jaw? Or is his thigh in his Jaw? Vitali would never lie... right?

I don't give a flying fuck about Saverese. I'm telling you that going after another posters grammar when yours sucks is hypocritical and even if it weren't - it still makes you look desperate. Whether you do the smart thing and take that onboard and become a better 'popster' for it is up to you though.

[brocktonblockbust]

fragrant as hell

Better than your “Used Clothing” Odor!



I feel your pain hater's, Honest

Used clothing aint bad. Its my stink-ass boxing shorts I havent washed yet since October's fight.

[brocktonblockbust]

I hear a lot of people talking about 'haters' these days... Usually it's by people who want to use it as a catch all phrase to dismiss anybody who raises a legitimate point or criticism against them. Just saying.

You're really not getting it are you?...

I'm not saying Wlad is definitely a cheat
I'm not saying that Vitali is definitely a cheat (anymore)
I'm not saying Tyson definitely wasn't a cheat
I'm definitely NOT saying that Evan Fields didn't catch Evander red handed

I did not give a definite stance on any, nor do I mean to. You've shown that you can't follow a linear argument or have an objective discussion. As I said, I'm just here to tell you your shit stinks of fanboy, that's all...

I AM saying that your K2 nuthugging is causing a great deal of inconsistent logic from you...

You don't believe Holyfield when he uses the 'I didn't know what I was taking, it was from a Dr. to treat a health condition/injury' excuse that EVERYBODY who gets caught uses... So why believe it when Vitali says the same bullshit?

I don't give a flying fuck about Saverese. I'm telling you that going after another posters grammar when yours sucks is hypocritical and even if it weren't - it still makes you look desperate. Whether you do the smart thing and take that onboard and become a better 'popster' for it is up to you though.

haha mate and who the fuck ever DID care about that big oafish piece of stinkola?

[IamInuit]

Boxing began in 2001 lol and anything or anyone not affiliated with this objective look at the sport is a moron. Those of us that watched the sport starting in the mid sixties, following it through the 70's and 80's and still do should ignore this and suck a Klit cock?

How's this for objective.....go fuck yourself.

[brocktonblockbust]

Boxing began in 2001 lol and anything or anyone not affiliated with this objective look at the sport is a moron. Those of us that watched the sport starting in the mid sixties, following it through the 70's and 80's and still do should ignore this and suck a Klit cock?

How's this for objective.....go fuck yourself.

haha this thread is getting funnier by the post. haha got me laughin good here.

[TysonBomb]

rotfl @ the klit attack

klitturds know no bounds

here's something just for all of you klitschko fans

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

I hear a lot of people talking about 'haters' these days... Usually it's by people who want to use it as a catch all phrase to dismiss anybody who raises a legitimate point or criticism against them. Just saying.

What is your criticism against them? I acknowledged the incident in his amateur days, correct? So i think i can take constructive critique Sir Ian don't u.

I'm not saying Wlad is definitely a cheat
I'm not saying that Vitali is definitely a cheat (anymore)
I'm not saying Tyson definitely wasn't a cheat
I'm definitely NOT saying that Evan Fields didn't catch Evander red handed

Bit vague isn't it? What are u saying? If you're not saying any of those things then what r u whining about? Liberal democrat. You have no argument then! You can't sit on the fence and whine about linear argument's? My point's are clear. Vitali & Wlad take tests every fight and are 100% clean. Yes there may be ways around it but i think they are honourable men. And there is not even a suggestion by there opponent's or anyone within the sport that they are juicing. That speaks volumes....They don't need them!

I did not give a definite stance on any, nor do I mean to. You've shown that you can't follow a linear argument or have an objective discussion. As I said, I'm just here to tell you your shit stinks of fanboy, that's all...

How can u not have a firm basis from which to argue from and then complain about the other poster not being able to follow a linear point? LOL. Quality logic. Why won't you give a definitive stance? Because know you the evidence sides with me. Stop the pretentious objective crap u know damn well you cannot be objective when it comes to K2. When i don't buy into theories of a boxer being on roids that automatically makes me a fanboy? LOL ok.. U tell me what u want flower...

I AM saying that your K2 nuthugging is causing a great deal of inconsistent logic from you...

To quote u:

-"You've shown that you can't follow a linear argument"

-"I did not give a definite stance on any, nor do I mean to"

You don't even have one! I am being objective, i acknowledged the VK incident and the fact that Mosley never failed a test. So run that one by me again! However i don't think the character of K2 or there fighting styles suggest they are juicing. I suggest they are honourable men. Common sense shows that they're not using roids. Every known user, Holyfield, Toney, Morrison, use stroids to get bigger. That's the last thing Wladimir and Vitali need.......

You don't believe Holyfield when he uses the 'I didn't know what I was taking, it was from a Dr. to treat a health condition/injury' excuse that EVERYBODY who gets caught uses... So why believe it when Vitali says the same bullshit?

Because Holyfield covered it up. VK told of his incident freely before it ever even came up!

You think Holyfield 'knowing a guy who knows a guy who says Tyson took PEDs' is worthy of discussion, but you dismiss anybody raising their eyebrows at Vitali actually failing a test as a 'hater'.

I acknowledged it and am discusing it so how am i dismissing it? LOL. You have got on your high horse about 1 thread! 'Me think the lady doth protest to much'.

I'm glad you finally understand that Shane Mosely and Evander Holyfield are proof that you can use PEDs in this age and still not fail a test... Fuck, it only took me 4 posts to get it through your skull.

Of course u can use them... but more & more ppl are being outed yet K2 are still clean so it sides with me this point at the minute. Until they fail or until one of them admit it or a federal bust outs them i suggest u acknowledge there strong stance on testing for PEDS.

The drawing pin analogy seems to have gone over you head though, I'd dumb it down for you, but I can't be bothered to post 4 more times.

Yes i got it, i just thought it pretty shit and gave it the response it deserved.

As for Vitali's kickboxing injury, is this the same thigh injury he made up instead of just admitting that Pele Reid kicked him in the jaw? Or is his thigh in his Jaw? Vitali would never lie... right?

That's machismo not covering up a doping scandal. Quit the melodrama Rita!

I don't give a flying fuck about Saverese. I'm telling you that going after another posters grammar when yours sucks is hypocritical and even if it weren't - it still makes you look desperate. Whether you do the smart thing and take that onboard and become a better 'popster' for it is up to you though.

Yes u do, you said my argument was weak and defended the bumbox who compared him to VK! Try to be consistant. My argument was that he is in no way comparable, it was not his Grammar as u keep saying! Why are u so offended by me pointing out his 'Flawed' mistake? This whole thread is about u being offended by a minor infraction between me and that lemon! LOL. Stop making out that my argument with him is not a valid one! Ya my grammar is shit but at least i can distinguish between 2 different words.

P.s I love you too.