Rank these fighters

[TitoFan]

i don't know how u don't rank Oscar over Tito...they both fought eachother and Oscar was robbed... there's not debating Tito lost that fight by at least three rounds or more... where-ever Tito is ranked, Oscar should one ahead of him...

Fighters Tito popped their cherry


Yori Campus
Oba Carr
Oscar De La Hoya
David Reid
Fernando Vargas

Only Oscar was able to go on to other things, everybody else was ruined

Such distortion of the truth. Trinidad didn't beat De La Hoya. So he shouldn't even be up there. Campas and Vargas won titles after fighting Trinidad. How is that ruining them? A lot of Campas best wins came after the Trinidad fight. Vargas was never the same after he had his back surgery. His back problems are what ruined him. Reid went into the Trinidad fight already ruined. Trinidad was a cash out fight for him. His eye was fucked up and there was no way to fix it. As for Oba Carr? When the fuck are people gonna stop overrating him? Carr was never considered "all that" He had a little hype behind him cuz he was a product of the Kronk gym and went into the Trinidad fight with a pretty 32-0 record. But the people who actually follow boxing (and not just look at records and pretend they know more than they really do) knew it was a hollow 32-0. By all rights It should of been 30-2. Pedro Sanchez dropped him and out fought him. And deserved the win. But that doesn't compare to the bullshit SD win Carr got over 600 year old Livingstone Bramble. Bramble dropped him twice and punked him all night. Carr would of took the loss if the fight wasn't in his hometown. It makes me laugh when I hear clueless people say Trinidad ruined Carr. He didn't ruin Carr. Carr was always just an average fighter. He never beat anyone of note before fighting Trinidad or after fighting Trinidad. But don't let facts stand in the way. Carry on with the distorted facts. Trinidad ruined Carr. He turned an average fighter into less average fighter. Yay.

Can't except you to be objective about any argument involving a P.R. fighter and a Mexican one. But I can't help but notice how you steer away from the argument that Oscar made a living out of feasting on Trinidad's leftovers. Fine... tear down the Reid's and the Carr's. It's a no-win argument either way. You know what they say about hindsight, or Monday-morning quarterbacking. Makes everyone look like geniuses. My argument is and has always been that, although admittedly Oscar was the better boxer, Trinidad was the more accomplished fighter AND had the more impressive career. Oscar was more globally popular for the same reason Baby Chavez is globally popular. There's millions and millions of Mexicans and Mexican-Americans who will eagerly throw their weight behind any "paisano" that comes along. You can be coddled (Chavez Jr.), or a known cheater (Margarito)... and you still get all the adulation, deserved or not. No hate, just the facts.

The problem is a very simple one. You're just to damn sensitive. I mean little 10 year old girl sensitive. You take facts as insults. That's why you think I'm always knocking Trinidad. When in reality I'm not. I wasn't tearing Reid or Carr down. I was just simply providing facts. Or am I lying? Feel free to counter anything I said. Prove I'm making shit up or I'm wrong in what I'm saying. And while you're at it, point out to me where I discredited Trinidad like you claim I always do. Like I told you before. Facts are not insults. You just take them that way

Back down, Fido. Down... boy. Nobody's mentioning anything about insults here, only you. In your own predictable fashion, you go off on your (by now very tiresome) tirade about me being overly sensitive and whatnot. I'm only stating my opinion to counter your opinion. Which, by the way, is what it is..... an OPINION. You see.... here's the difference between facts and opinions:

Your opinion is that Oscar had the better career.
My opinion is that Trinidad had the better career.
Follow me? Opinions.

Fact: Trinidad got the decision win over Oscar when they fought.

Deserved or not? Opinion.
See how this shit works?

I'll dumb it down for you and make it less complicated. You said I was tearing down the Reid and Carr wins. When did I do that?

You're too young for Alzheimers, I imagine.

Like.... when you said Reid was already SHOT when he fought Trinidad, and when you said that Carr was OVERRATED?? Maybe my English isn't up to snuff, but..... is that not tearing down or discrediting the Trinidad wins over both of these guys??

[Jerry Rice]

i don't know how u don't rank Oscar over Tito...they both fought eachother and Oscar was robbed... there's not debating Tito lost that fight by at least three rounds or more... where-ever Tito is ranked, Oscar should one ahead of him...

Fighters Tito popped their cherry


Yori Campus
Oba Carr
Oscar De La Hoya
David Reid
Fernando Vargas

Only Oscar was able to go on to other things, everybody else was ruined

Such distortion of the truth. Trinidad didn't beat De La Hoya. So he shouldn't even be up there. Campas and Vargas won titles after fighting Trinidad. How is that ruining them? A lot of Campas best wins came after the Trinidad fight. Vargas was never the same after he had his back surgery. His back problems are what ruined him. Reid went into the Trinidad fight already ruined. Trinidad was a cash out fight for him. His eye was fucked up and there was no way to fix it. As for Oba Carr? When the fuck are people gonna stop overrating him? Carr was never considered "all that" He had a little hype behind him cuz he was a product of the Kronk gym and went into the Trinidad fight with a pretty 32-0 record. But the people who actually follow boxing (and not just look at records and pretend they know more than they really do) knew it was a hollow 32-0. By all rights It should of been 30-2. Pedro Sanchez dropped him and out fought him. And deserved the win. But that doesn't compare to the bullshit SD win Carr got over 600 year old Livingstone Bramble. Bramble dropped him twice and punked him all night. Carr would of took the loss if the fight wasn't in his hometown. It makes me laugh when I hear clueless people say Trinidad ruined Carr. He didn't ruin Carr. Carr was always just an average fighter. He never beat anyone of note before fighting Trinidad or after fighting Trinidad. But don't let facts stand in the way. Carry on with the distorted facts. Trinidad ruined Carr. He turned an average fighter into less average fighter. Yay.

Not true bad blood, its a shame to see that you are no longer in your prime



1. Yori Boy Campus - After Tito knocked out Campus a fighter in which many people thought was the next Chavez he floated around a while, he was able to win a generic belt at WW vs some chap, he was then able to move up to junior middle and beat Rual Marquez for a belt, this was not elite competition at all and he was never hyped the same way after Tito, for many years you told me that Chavez ruined Taylor, however Taylor went on to win a title after that, so which one is it

2. Oba Carr - I bet 500 dollars on this fight, Tito was minus - 130 on the money line, this was as close to 1-1 odds as you can get, the oddsmakers thought this was a close fight, you say Carr should have had 2 losses coming into the Tito fight Yea so should have De La hoya.

3. De La Hoya - This was the worse mega fight ever, the crowd was booing all the way up to the 5th round, the most exciting part of the fight is when Oscar decided to run around the ring a shock fans, nobody had ever seen anything like that before, Oscar admitted over the years he was tired going into the 10th and if you couple that with the fact that he was in there with a notoriously late starter/best finisher in the business his actions were cowardly, excessive holding you get penalized/disqualified, exessive running you don't get shit, but for some reason you give him a get out of jail freecard.

4. David Reid - You say that cashed him out because of his eye but they were not saying that before the fight, before the fight they were saying that he was a raw version of Oscar, not as polished but a similiar style and he was bigger and stronger and would give Tito problems, over the first six rounds they were right as Reid was boxing great, he won 4 of the first six rounds and was able to do something Oscar was not and drop Tito, however over the second half of the fight he was a human punching bag, I felt the Oscar fight would have looked a lot like this had he not sprinted in the later rounds.

5. Vargas - Vargas fought Wilfredo Rivera after Tito and got dropped before coming back and scoring a KO, you could clearly see he was no longer the same fighter, the title you speak of is when Tito vacated the belts and moved to 160, Vargas fought Jose Flores for the interim belt, Flores came into the fight with a 42-8 record

[Violent Demise]

i don't know how u don't rank Oscar over Tito...they both fought eachother and Oscar was robbed... there's not debating Tito lost that fight by at least three rounds or more... where-ever Tito is ranked, Oscar should one ahead of him...

Fighters Tito popped their cherry


Yori Campus
Oba Carr
Oscar De La Hoya
David Reid
Fernando Vargas

Only Oscar was able to go on to other things, everybody else was ruined

Such distortion of the truth. Trinidad didn't beat De La Hoya. So he shouldn't even be up there. Campas and Vargas won titles after fighting Trinidad. How is that ruining them? A lot of Campas best wins came after the Trinidad fight. Vargas was never the same after he had his back surgery. His back problems are what ruined him. Reid went into the Trinidad fight already ruined. Trinidad was a cash out fight for him. His eye was fucked up and there was no way to fix it. As for Oba Carr? When the fuck are people gonna stop overrating him? Carr was never considered "all that" He had a little hype behind him cuz he was a product of the Kronk gym and went into the Trinidad fight with a pretty 32-0 record. But the people who actually follow boxing (and not just look at records and pretend they know more than they really do) knew it was a hollow 32-0. By all rights It should of been 30-2. Pedro Sanchez dropped him and out fought him. And deserved the win. But that doesn't compare to the bullshit SD win Carr got over 600 year old Livingstone Bramble. Bramble dropped him twice and punked him all night. Carr would of took the loss if the fight wasn't in his hometown. It makes me laugh when I hear clueless people say Trinidad ruined Carr. He didn't ruin Carr. Carr was always just an average fighter. He never beat anyone of note before fighting Trinidad or after fighting Trinidad. But don't let facts stand in the way. Carry on with the distorted facts. Trinidad ruined Carr. He turned an average fighter into less average fighter. Yay.

Can't except you to be objective about any argument involving a P.R. fighter and a Mexican one. But I can't help but notice how you steer away from the argument that Oscar made a living out of feasting on Trinidad's leftovers. Fine... tear down the Reid's and the Carr's. It's a no-win argument either way. You know what they say about hindsight, or Monday-morning quarterbacking. Makes everyone look like geniuses. My argument is and has always been that, although admittedly Oscar was the better boxer, Trinidad was the more accomplished fighter AND had the more impressive career. Oscar was more globally popular for the same reason Baby Chavez is globally popular. There's millions and millions of Mexicans and Mexican-Americans who will eagerly throw their weight behind any "paisano" that comes along. You can be coddled (Chavez Jr.), or a known cheater (Margarito)... and you still get all the adulation, deserved or not. No hate, just the facts.

The problem is a very simple one. You're just to damn sensitive. I mean little 10 year old girl sensitive. You take facts as insults. That's why you think I'm always knocking Trinidad. When in reality I'm not. I wasn't tearing Reid or Carr down. I was just simply providing facts. Or am I lying? Feel free to counter anything I said. Prove I'm making shit up or I'm wrong in what I'm saying. And while you're at it, point out to me where I discredited Trinidad like you claim I always do. Like I told you before. Facts are not insults. You just take them that way

Back down, Fido. Down... boy. Nobody's mentioning anything about insults here, only you. In your own predictable fashion, you go off on your (by now very tiresome) tirade about me being overly sensitive and whatnot. I'm only stating my opinion to counter your opinion. Which, by the way, is what it is..... an OPINION. You see.... here's the difference between facts and opinions:

Your opinion is that Oscar had the better career.
My opinion is that Trinidad had the better career.
Follow me? Opinions.

Fact: Trinidad got the decision win over Oscar when they fought.

Deserved or not? Opinion.
See how this shit works?

I'll dumb it down for you and make it less complicated. You said I was tearing down the Reid and Carr wins. When did I do that?

You're too young for Alzheimers, I imagine.

Like.... when you said Reid was already SHOT when he fought Trinidad, and when you said that Carr was OVERRATED?? Maybe my English isn't up to snuff, but..... is that not tearing down or discrediting the Trinidad wins over both of these guys??

Those are facts. You think Reid had multiple eye surgery's for the fuck of it? You think he drooped his eye lid to look cool? How the fuck is a one-eyed fighter not a ruined fighter?

Name me Carr best win before fighting Trinidad that proved he was good. His previous fight before Trididad was against a 1-5 fighter. What the fuck is a 31-0 fighter doing fighting someone 1-5? Hell yeah he was overrated. Especially by the Trinidad groupies

[Violent Demise]

i don't know how u don't rank Oscar over Tito...they both fought eachother and Oscar was robbed... there's not debating Tito lost that fight by at least three rounds or more... where-ever Tito is ranked, Oscar should one ahead of him...

Fighters Tito popped their cherry


Yori Campus
Oba Carr
Oscar De La Hoya
David Reid
Fernando Vargas

Only Oscar was able to go on to other things, everybody else was ruined

Such distortion of the truth. Trinidad didn't beat De La Hoya. So he shouldn't even be up there. Campas and Vargas won titles after fighting Trinidad. How is that ruining them? A lot of Campas best wins came after the Trinidad fight. Vargas was never the same after he had his back surgery. His back problems are what ruined him. Reid went into the Trinidad fight already ruined. Trinidad was a cash out fight for him. His eye was fucked up and there was no way to fix it. As for Oba Carr? When the fuck are people gonna stop overrating him? Carr was never considered "all that" He had a little hype behind him cuz he was a product of the Kronk gym and went into the Trinidad fight with a pretty 32-0 record. But the people who actually follow boxing (and not just look at records and pretend they know more than they really do) knew it was a hollow 32-0. By all rights It should of been 30-2. Pedro Sanchez dropped him and out fought him. And deserved the win. But that doesn't compare to the bullshit SD win Carr got over 600 year old Livingstone Bramble. Bramble dropped him twice and punked him all night. Carr would of took the loss if the fight wasn't in his hometown. It makes me laugh when I hear clueless people say Trinidad ruined Carr. He didn't ruin Carr. Carr was always just an average fighter. He never beat anyone of note before fighting Trinidad or after fighting Trinidad. But don't let facts stand in the way. Carry on with the distorted facts. Trinidad ruined Carr. He turned an average fighter into less average fighter. Yay.

Not true bad blood, its a shame to see that you are no longer in your prime



1. Yori Boy Campus - After Tito knocked out Campus a fighter in which many people thought was the next Chavez he floated around a while, he was able to win a generic belt at WW vs some chap, he was then able to move up to junior middle and beat Rual Marquez for a belt, this was not elite competition at all and he was never hyped the same way after Tito, for many years you told me that Chavez ruined Taylor, however Taylor went on to win a title after that, so which one is it

2. Oba Carr - I bet 500 dollars on this fight, Tito was minus - 130 on the money line, this was as close to 1-1 odds as you can get, the oddsmakers thought this was a close fight, you say Carr should have had 2 losses coming into the Tito fight Yea so should have De La hoya.

3. De La Hoya - This was the worse mega fight ever, the crowd was booing all the way up to the 5th round, the most exciting part of the fight is when Oscar decided to run around the ring a shock fans, nobody had ever seen anything like that before, Oscar admitted over the years he was tired going into the 10th and if you couple that with the fact that he was in there with a notoriously late starter/best finisher in the business his actions were cowardly, excessive holding you get penalized/disqualified, exessive running you don't get shit, but for some reason you give him a get out of jail freecard.

4. David Reid - You say that cashed him out because of his eye but they were not saying that before the fight, before the fight they were saying that he was a raw version of Oscar, not as polished but a similiar style and he was bigger and stronger and would give Tito problems, over the first six rounds they were right as Reid was boxing great, he won 4 of the first six rounds and was able to do something Oscar was not and drop Tito, however over the second half of the fight he was a human punching bag, I felt the Oscar fight would have looked a lot like this had he not sprinted in the later rounds.

5. Vargas - Vargas fought Wilfredo Rivera after Tito and got dropped before coming back and scoring a KO, you could clearly see he was no longer the same fighter, the title you speak of is when Tito vacated the belts and moved to 160, Vargas fought Jose Flores for the interim belt, Flores came into the fight with a 42-8 record

1, Chavez beat Taylor's prime out of him after there first. Taylor's skill level was so high he was still a useful fighter and was able to claim another title while being a declined fighter. Chavez completely ruined him in the rematch. He was useless after that. That's ruining a fighter

2, If you go watch Oba Carr-Livingston Bramble and Oba Carr-Pedro Sanchez you'll understand what I'm talking about

3, The fight was 12 rounds. Not 3. If you actually gave Trinidad more than 4 rounds and really think he deserved it than you just can't score. Or might wanna look into getting your eyes checked

4, Seriously? I mean come on. It was a cash out fight. A Friday PPV. You think anybody is gonna buy it if they let everybody know his eye was bad? Reid was not a PPV fighter. He had looked terrible in his previous 2 fights. The writing was on the wall on him losing. It was only a matter of time. The only way to justify his 3 million dollar pay was to put in on PPV and play up his gold medal. Promote him as the killer he was not.

5, Rivera was a good fighter. No one will ever convince me he didn't twice beat Pernell Whitaker. He dropped Vargas and than got stopped. Worse lose he ever had to that point. Vargas hurt his back traing for the Flores fight. Downhill after that

[Jerry Rice]

i don't know how u don't rank Oscar over Tito...they both fought eachother and Oscar was robbed... there's not debating Tito lost that fight by at least three rounds or more... where-ever Tito is ranked, Oscar should one ahead of him...

Fighters Tito popped their cherry


Yori Campus
Oba Carr
Oscar De La Hoya
David Reid
Fernando Vargas

Only Oscar was able to go on to other things, everybody else was ruined

Such distortion of the truth. Trinidad didn't beat De La Hoya. So he shouldn't even be up there. Campas and Vargas won titles after fighting Trinidad. How is that ruining them? A lot of Campas best wins came after the Trinidad fight. Vargas was never the same after he had his back surgery. His back problems are what ruined him. Reid went into the Trinidad fight already ruined. Trinidad was a cash out fight for him. His eye was fucked up and there was no way to fix it. As for Oba Carr? When the fuck are people gonna stop overrating him? Carr was never considered "all that" He had a little hype behind him cuz he was a product of the Kronk gym and went into the Trinidad fight with a pretty 32-0 record. But the people who actually follow boxing (and not just look at records and pretend they know more than they really do) knew it was a hollow 32-0. By all rights It should of been 30-2. Pedro Sanchez dropped him and out fought him. And deserved the win. But that doesn't compare to the bullshit SD win Carr got over 600 year old Livingstone Bramble. Bramble dropped him twice and punked him all night. Carr would of took the loss if the fight wasn't in his hometown. It makes me laugh when I hear clueless people say Trinidad ruined Carr. He didn't ruin Carr. Carr was always just an average fighter. He never beat anyone of note before fighting Trinidad or after fighting Trinidad. But don't let facts stand in the way. Carry on with the distorted facts. Trinidad ruined Carr. He turned an average fighter into less average fighter. Yay.

Not true bad blood, its a shame to see that you are no longer in your prime



1. Yori Boy Campus - After Tito knocked out Campus a fighter in which many people thought was the next Chavez he floated around a while, he was able to win a generic belt at WW vs some chap, he was then able to move up to junior middle and beat Rual Marquez for a belt, this was not elite competition at all and he was never hyped the same way after Tito, for many years you told me that Chavez ruined Taylor, however Taylor went on to win a title after that, so which one is it

2. Oba Carr - I bet 500 dollars on this fight, Tito was minus - 130 on the money line, this was as close to 1-1 odds as you can get, the oddsmakers thought this was a close fight, you say Carr should have had 2 losses coming into the Tito fight Yea so should have De La hoya.

3. De La Hoya - This was the worse mega fight ever, the crowd was booing all the way up to the 5th round, the most exciting part of the fight is when Oscar decided to run around the ring a shock fans, nobody had ever seen anything like that before, Oscar admitted over the years he was tired going into the 10th and if you couple that with the fact that he was in there with a notoriously late starter/best finisher in the business his actions were cowardly, excessive holding you get penalized/disqualified, exessive running you don't get shit, but for some reason you give him a get out of jail freecard.

4. David Reid - You say that cashed him out because of his eye but they were not saying that before the fight, before the fight they were saying that he was a raw version of Oscar, not as polished but a similiar style and he was bigger and stronger and would give Tito problems, over the first six rounds they were right as Reid was boxing great, he won 4 of the first six rounds and was able to do something Oscar was not and drop Tito, however over the second half of the fight he was a human punching bag, I felt the Oscar fight would have looked a lot like this had he not sprinted in the later rounds.

5. Vargas - Vargas fought Wilfredo Rivera after Tito and got dropped before coming back and scoring a KO, you could clearly see he was no longer the same fighter, the title you speak of is when Tito vacated the belts and moved to 160, Vargas fought Jose Flores for the interim belt, Flores came into the fight with a 42-8 record

1, Chavez beat Taylor's prime out of him after there first. Taylor's skill level was so high he was still a useful fighter and was able to claim another title while being a declined fighter. Chavez completely ruined him in the rematch. He was useless after that. That's ruining a fighter

2, If you go watch Oba Carr-Livingston Bramble and Oba Carr-Pedro Sanchez you'll understand what I'm talking about

3, The fight was 12 rounds. Not 3. If you actually gave Trinidad more than 4 rounds and really think he deserved it than you just can't score. Or might wanna look into getting your eyes checked

4, Seriously? I mean come on. It was a cash out fight. A Friday PPV. You think anybody is gonna buy it if they let everybody know his eye was bad? Reid was not a PPV fighter. He had looked terrible in his previous 2 fights. The writing was on the wall on him losing. It was only a matter of time. The only way to justify his 3 million dollar pay was to put in on PPV and play up his gold medal. Promote him as the killer he was not.

5, Rivera was a good fighter. No one will ever convince me he didn't twice beat Pernell Whitaker. He dropped Vargas and than got stopped. Worse lose he ever had to that point. Vargas hurt his back traing for the Flores fight. Downhill after that

1. OK, so would you rather me say Tito beat the prime out of Campus rather than ruined him I did not know there was different levels to this stuff, it was a great win for Tito and Campus was never the same.

2. Watch Oscar vs Whitaker and Oscar vs Quartey and you will see what I am saying.

3. Exactly, the fight is 12 rounds, not 9, if you want to fight for 9 rounds then fight in the 9 round league, this is the twelve round league, could you imagine if Meldric Taylor had the same tactic against Chavez
, Chavez would not have had the chance to beat the prime out of Taylor nor score a late knockout, then you would have a totally different feeling about a fighter running, you would be pissed and rate about how Taylor was a coward and call him every name in the book, so you could imagine how Tito fans felt.

4. I am not talking about the promoters hyping the fight I am talking about the fans, and Reid had much more sucess against Tito then Joppy did so that eye was not as bad as you make it seem.

5. Two shit wins for Vargas, and if its true that he hurt his back before the Flores fight that would mean Oscar' career defining win against Vargas came against a Tito punching bag that had a bad back, so its overrated just like his career.

[Jerry Rice]

@ VD


And it was not the Chavez fight that ruined Tayor, it was the Terry Norris fight.

[Violent Demise]

i don't know how u don't rank Oscar over Tito...they both fought eachother and Oscar was robbed... there's not debating Tito lost that fight by at least three rounds or more... where-ever Tito is ranked, Oscar should one ahead of him...

Fighters Tito popped their cherry


Yori Campus
Oba Carr
Oscar De La Hoya
David Reid
Fernando Vargas

Only Oscar was able to go on to other things, everybody else was ruined

Such distortion of the truth. Trinidad didn't beat De La Hoya. So he shouldn't even be up there. Campas and Vargas won titles after fighting Trinidad. How is that ruining them? A lot of Campas best wins came after the Trinidad fight. Vargas was never the same after he had his back surgery. His back problems are what ruined him. Reid went into the Trinidad fight already ruined. Trinidad was a cash out fight for him. His eye was fucked up and there was no way to fix it. As for Oba Carr? When the fuck are people gonna stop overrating him? Carr was never considered "all that" He had a little hype behind him cuz he was a product of the Kronk gym and went into the Trinidad fight with a pretty 32-0 record. But the people who actually follow boxing (and not just look at records and pretend they know more than they really do) knew it was a hollow 32-0. By all rights It should of been 30-2. Pedro Sanchez dropped him and out fought him. And deserved the win. But that doesn't compare to the bullshit SD win Carr got over 600 year old Livingstone Bramble. Bramble dropped him twice and punked him all night. Carr would of took the loss if the fight wasn't in his hometown. It makes me laugh when I hear clueless people say Trinidad ruined Carr. He didn't ruin Carr. Carr was always just an average fighter. He never beat anyone of note before fighting Trinidad or after fighting Trinidad. But don't let facts stand in the way. Carry on with the distorted facts. Trinidad ruined Carr. He turned an average fighter into less average fighter. Yay.

Not true bad blood, its a shame to see that you are no longer in your prime



1. Yori Boy Campus - After Tito knocked out Campus a fighter in which many people thought was the next Chavez he floated around a while, he was able to win a generic belt at WW vs some chap, he was then able to move up to junior middle and beat Rual Marquez for a belt, this was not elite competition at all and he was never hyped the same way after Tito, for many years you told me that Chavez ruined Taylor, however Taylor went on to win a title after that, so which one is it

2. Oba Carr - I bet 500 dollars on this fight, Tito was minus - 130 on the money line, this was as close to 1-1 odds as you can get, the oddsmakers thought this was a close fight, you say Carr should have had 2 losses coming into the Tito fight Yea so should have De La hoya.

3. De La Hoya - This was the worse mega fight ever, the crowd was booing all the way up to the 5th round, the most exciting part of the fight is when Oscar decided to run around the ring a shock fans, nobody had ever seen anything like that before, Oscar admitted over the years he was tired going into the 10th and if you couple that with the fact that he was in there with a notoriously late starter/best finisher in the business his actions were cowardly, excessive holding you get penalized/disqualified, exessive running you don't get shit, but for some reason you give him a get out of jail freecard.

4. David Reid - You say that cashed him out because of his eye but they were not saying that before the fight, before the fight they were saying that he was a raw version of Oscar, not as polished but a similiar style and he was bigger and stronger and would give Tito problems, over the first six rounds they were right as Reid was boxing great, he won 4 of the first six rounds and was able to do something Oscar was not and drop Tito, however over the second half of the fight he was a human punching bag, I felt the Oscar fight would have looked a lot like this had he not sprinted in the later rounds.

5. Vargas - Vargas fought Wilfredo Rivera after Tito and got dropped before coming back and scoring a KO, you could clearly see he was no longer the same fighter, the title you speak of is when Tito vacated the belts and moved to 160, Vargas fought Jose Flores for the interim belt, Flores came into the fight with a 42-8 record

1, Chavez beat Taylor's prime out of him after there first. Taylor's skill level was so high he was still a useful fighter and was able to claim another title while being a declined fighter. Chavez completely ruined him in the rematch. He was useless after that. That's ruining a fighter

2, If you go watch Oba Carr-Livingston Bramble and Oba Carr-Pedro Sanchez you'll understand what I'm talking about

3, The fight was 12 rounds. Not 3. If you actually gave Trinidad more than 4 rounds and really think he deserved it than you just can't score. Or might wanna look into getting your eyes checked

4, Seriously? I mean come on. It was a cash out fight. A Friday PPV. You think anybody is gonna buy it if they let everybody know his eye was bad? Reid was not a PPV fighter. He had looked terrible in his previous 2 fights. The writing was on the wall on him losing. It was only a matter of time. The only way to justify his 3 million dollar pay was to put in on PPV and play up his gold medal. Promote him as the killer he was not.

5, Rivera was a good fighter. No one will ever convince me he didn't twice beat Pernell Whitaker. He dropped Vargas and than got stopped. Worse lose he ever had to that point. Vargas hurt his back traing for the Flores fight. Downhill after that

1. OK, so would you rather me say Tito beat the prime out of Campus rather than ruined him I did not know there was different levels to this stuff, it was a great win for Tito and Campus was never the same.

2. Watch Oscar vs Whitaker and Oscar vs Quartey and you will see what I am saying.

3. Exactly, the fight is 12 rounds, not 9, if you want to fight for 9 rounds then fight in the 9 round league, this is the twelve round league, could you imagine if Meldric Taylor had the same tactic against Chavez
, Chavez would not have had the chance to beat the prime out of Taylor nor score a late knockout, then you would have a totally different feeling about a fighter running, you would be pissed and rate about how Taylor was a coward and call him every name in the book, so you could imagine how Tito fans felt.

4. I am not talking about the promoters hyping the fight I am talking about the fans, and Reid had much more sucess against Tito then Joppy did so that eye was not as bad as you make it seem.

5. Two shit wins for Vargas, and if its true that he hurt his back before the Flores fight that would mean Oscar' career defining win against Vargas came against a Tito punching bag that had a bad back, so its overrated just like his career.

1, Ruined fighters don't score there best wins after being ruined. That makes no sense. Campas scored his best wins after fighting Trinidad.

2, I don't think you even know what your saying. What the hell them fights gotta do with how overrated Oba Carr was?

3, 12 rounds. 8 rounds to De La Hoya. 4 to Trinidad. Pretty damn clear

4, 90% of the fans don't know shit. I guarantee you at least 85% of them didn't even know Reid had an eye problem.

5, Rivera was a good fighter. BTW, out of curiosity how old are you? How long you been watching boxing for?

[Jerry Rice]

I am 33, I am your elder.

[FinitoElDinamita]

I am 33, I am your elder.

Which means that if we were Korean, he would have to bow down to you, 90 degrees, and call you hyung.

[Jerry Rice]

I am 33, I am your elder.

Which means that if we were Korean, he would have to bow down to you, 90 degrees, and call you hyung.

No his latino, but he still does that.

[Violent Demise]

i don't know how u don't rank Oscar over Tito...they both fought eachother and Oscar was robbed... there's not debating Tito lost that fight by at least three rounds or more... where-ever Tito is ranked, Oscar should one ahead of him...

Fighters Tito popped their cherry


Yori Campus
Oba Carr
Oscar De La Hoya
David Reid
Fernando Vargas

Only Oscar was able to go on to other things, everybody else was ruined

Such distortion of the truth. Trinidad didn't beat De La Hoya. So he shouldn't even be up there. Campas and Vargas won titles after fighting Trinidad. How is that ruining them? A lot of Campas best wins came after the Trinidad fight. Vargas was never the same after he had his back surgery. His back problems are what ruined him. Reid went into the Trinidad fight already ruined. Trinidad was a cash out fight for him. His eye was fucked up and there was no way to fix it. As for Oba Carr? When the fuck are people gonna stop overrating him? Carr was never considered "all that" He had a little hype behind him cuz he was a product of the Kronk gym and went into the Trinidad fight with a pretty 32-0 record. But the people who actually follow boxing (and not just look at records and pretend they know more than they really do) knew it was a hollow 32-0. By all rights It should of been 30-2. Pedro Sanchez dropped him and out fought him. And deserved the win. But that doesn't compare to the bullshit SD win Carr got over 600 year old Livingstone Bramble. Bramble dropped him twice and punked him all night. Carr would of took the loss if the fight wasn't in his hometown. It makes me laugh when I hear clueless people say Trinidad ruined Carr. He didn't ruin Carr. Carr was always just an average fighter. He never beat anyone of note before fighting Trinidad or after fighting Trinidad. But don't let facts stand in the way. Carry on with the distorted facts. Trinidad ruined Carr. He turned an average fighter into less average fighter. Yay.

2. Oba Carr - I bet 500 dollars on this fight, Tito was minus - 130 on the money line, this was as close to 1-1 odds as you can get, the oddsmakers thought this was a close fight, you say Carr should have had 2 losses coming into the Tito fight Yea so should have De La hoya.

So at 14 years old you put $500 down on a fight that was not even the main event? Come on now

[Jerry Rice]

i don't know how u don't rank Oscar over Tito...they both fought eachother and Oscar was robbed... there's not debating Tito lost that fight by at least three rounds or more... where-ever Tito is ranked, Oscar should one ahead of him...

Fighters Tito popped their cherry


Yori Campus
Oba Carr
Oscar De La Hoya
David Reid
Fernando Vargas

Only Oscar was able to go on to other things, everybody else was ruined

Such distortion of the truth. Trinidad didn't beat De La Hoya. So he shouldn't even be up there. Campas and Vargas won titles after fighting Trinidad. How is that ruining them? A lot of Campas best wins came after the Trinidad fight. Vargas was never the same after he had his back surgery. His back problems are what ruined him. Reid went into the Trinidad fight already ruined. Trinidad was a cash out fight for him. His eye was fucked up and there was no way to fix it. As for Oba Carr? When the fuck are people gonna stop overrating him? Carr was never considered "all that" He had a little hype behind him cuz he was a product of the Kronk gym and went into the Trinidad fight with a pretty 32-0 record. But the people who actually follow boxing (and not just look at records and pretend they know more than they really do) knew it was a hollow 32-0. By all rights It should of been 30-2. Pedro Sanchez dropped him and out fought him. And deserved the win. But that doesn't compare to the bullshit SD win Carr got over 600 year old Livingstone Bramble. Bramble dropped him twice and punked him all night. Carr would of took the loss if the fight wasn't in his hometown. It makes me laugh when I hear clueless people say Trinidad ruined Carr. He didn't ruin Carr. Carr was always just an average fighter. He never beat anyone of note before fighting Trinidad or after fighting Trinidad. But don't let facts stand in the way. Carry on with the distorted facts. Trinidad ruined Carr. He turned an average fighter into less average fighter. Yay.

2. Oba Carr - I bet 500 dollars on this fight, Tito was minus - 130 on the money line, this was as close to 1-1 odds as you can get, the oddsmakers thought this was a close fight, you say Carr should have had 2 losses coming into the Tito fight Yea so should have De La hoya.

So at 14 years old you put $500 down on a fight that was not even the main event? Come on now

I was 15 years old, and I am from a family that are fanatical about PR fighters, and I am/from Vegas, I will keep the rest to myself.

[Dark Lord Al]

i don't know how u don't rank Oscar over Tito...they both fought eachother and Oscar was robbed... there's not debating Tito lost that fight by at least three rounds or more... where-ever Tito is ranked, Oscar should one ahead of him...

Fighters Tito popped their cherry


Yori Campus
Oba Carr
Oscar De La Hoya
David Reid
Fernando Vargas

Only Oscar was able to go on to other things, everybody else was ruined

Such distortion of the truth. Trinidad didn't beat De La Hoya. So he shouldn't even be up there. Campas and Vargas won titles after fighting Trinidad. How is that ruining them? A lot of Campas best wins came after the Trinidad fight. Vargas was never the same after he had his back surgery. His back problems are what ruined him. Reid went into the Trinidad fight already ruined. Trinidad was a cash out fight for him. His eye was fucked up and there was no way to fix it. As for Oba Carr? When the fuck are people gonna stop overrating him? Carr was never considered "all that" He had a little hype behind him cuz he was a product of the Kronk gym and went into the Trinidad fight with a pretty 32-0 record. But the people who actually follow boxing (and not just look at records and pretend they know more than they really do) knew it was a hollow 32-0. By all rights It should of been 30-2. Pedro Sanchez dropped him and out fought him. And deserved the win. But that doesn't compare to the bullshit SD win Carr got over 600 year old Livingstone Bramble. Bramble dropped him twice and punked him all night. Carr would of took the loss if the fight wasn't in his hometown. It makes me laugh when I hear clueless people say Trinidad ruined Carr. He didn't ruin Carr. Carr was always just an average fighter. He never beat anyone of note before fighting Trinidad or after fighting Trinidad. But don't let facts stand in the way. Carry on with the distorted facts. Trinidad ruined Carr. He turned an average fighter into less average fighter. Yay.

2. Oba Carr - I bet 500 dollars on this fight, Tito was minus - 130 on the money line, this was as close to 1-1 odds as you can get, the oddsmakers thought this was a close fight, you say Carr should have had 2 losses coming into the Tito fight Yea so should have De La hoya.

So at 14 years old you put $500 down on a fight that was not even the main event? Come on now

I was 15 years old, and I am from a family that are fanatical about PR fighters, and I am/from Vegas, I will keep the rest to myself.

$500 wow that a lot of money for a kid.

[IamInuit]

I'll most likely be alone on this but so be it.
I suppose it’s how the individual views legacy. For me the number one position here is almost obvious if not for the blurs caused by the present. This guy won’t need a vote for the hall of fame because they will just send him his invitation. Whether he is fan friendly or not today or needs to go away in the minds of many is tainted and in most cases by those who have not witnessed his incredible run. He's a modern day Archie Moore and even if you hate him as I did for years as far as legacy goes he wins this hands down imo.






Bernard Hopkins

1993- Age28. He fights the legendary Roy Jones for the IBF title and loses on points. In doing so he also took more rounds off Jones then anyone did prior to his decline.

1995- Age 30. Wins IBF title.

1996 – 2000. Starting at age 31 and ending at age 35. He defends his title 12 times including knocking out Glen Johnson.

2001- Age 36. Enters middleweight tourney. Defends his IBF and partially unifies against Holmes for his WBA title.

2001- Age 36. In another unification just 5 months later he fights the legend Tito for his WBC title while defending the other 2 and puts on a clinic. People who were not around at the time in this medium or the boxing world in general really have no idea how big this fight was. I actually posted at Espn in those days lol. Next to Hearns/Leonard 1, it was personally devastating. (Tito never came back)

2002- 2004. Starting at age 37 and ending at close to 40. He defends all three belts 4 times and then meets Oscar for full unification and stops him. He becomes the first unified middleweight champion since Hagler. Shadowing 40 years old.

2005. Age 40. Fights the flavour of the HBO day in Taylor and loses a close and to this day very controversial decision. He then rematches the upstart and loses again in another almost to close to call fight. Many to this day including myself believe that if Taylor did enough to lift it in the first then Bernard did enough to get it back in the second. (Taylor was never the same)

Life goes on for this guy.

2006. Age 41 and a mere 6 months later. Jumps up 2 weight classes and destroys the man that beat the man at 175. (Tarver was ruined)

2007. Age 42. Fights and beats Winky Wright.

2008. Age 43. Calzaghe. Loses on points to one of the best fighters in the world.

2008. Age 43 just shy of 44. Drops ten pounds to fight HBO’S newest choir boy as a coming out fight and quite literally makes a fool out of him sending him into retirement.
The indestructible Kelly Pavlik. (Yet another thrown into darkness)

2009. Age 44. Fights a stay in shape fight really but wins it.

2010. Age 45. Well Roy was what it was.
At close to 46, he then fought Pascal in an ugly but effective fight.

2011. Age 46. Rematches and beats Pascal lifting his 175 title.

2012. Age 47. Rematches Chad Dawson in defense of his title in a losing effort.

2013. Age 48. Challenges the undefeated IBF light heavyweight champ who is about half his age and puts on another clinic.

To be continued….

[Violent Demise]

I'll most likely be alone on this but so be it.
I suppose it’s how the individual views legacy. For me the number one position here is almost obvious if not for the blurs caused by the present. This guy won’t need a vote for the hall of fame because they will just send him his invitation. Whether he is fan friendly or not today or needs to go away in the minds of many is tainted and in most cases by those who have not witnessed his incredible run. He's a modern day Archie Moore and even if you hate him as I did for years as far as legacy goes he wins this hands down imo.





Bernard Hopkins

1993- Age28. He fights the legendary Roy Jones for the IBF title and loses on points. In doing so he also took more rounds off Jones then anyone did prior to his decline.

1995- Age 30. Wins IBF title.

1996 – 2000. Starting at age 31 and ending at age 35. He defends his title 12 times including knocking out Glen Johnson.

2001- Age 36. Enters middleweight tourney. Defends his IBF and partially unifies against Holmes for his WBA title.

2001- Age 36. In another unification just 5 months later he fights the legend Tito for his WBC title while defending the other 2 and puts on a clinic. People who were not around at the time in this medium or the boxing world in general really have no idea how big this fight was. I actually posted at Espn in those days lol. Next to Hearns/Leonard 1, it was personally devastating. (Tito never came back)

2002- 2004. Starting at age 37 and ending at close to 40. He defends all three belts 4 times and then meets Oscar for full unification and stops him. He becomes the first unified middleweight champion since Hagler. Shadowing 40 years old.

2005. Age 40. Fights the flavour of the HBO day in Taylor and loses a close and to this day very controversial decision. He then rematches the upstart and loses again in another almost to close to call fight. Many to this day including myself believe that if Taylor did enough to lift it in the first then Bernard did enough to get it back in the second. (Taylor was never the same)

Life goes on for this guy.

2006. Age 41 and a mere 6 months later. Jumps up 2 weight classes and destroys the man that beat the man at 175. (Tarver was ruined)

2007. Age 42. Fights and beats Winky Wright.

2008. Age 43. Calzaghe. Loses on points to one of the best fighters in the world.

2008. Age 43 just shy of 44. Drops ten pounds to fight HBO’S newest choir boy as a coming out fight and quite literally makes a fool out of him sending him into retirement.
The indestructible Kelly Pavlik. (Yet another thrown into darkness)

2009. Age 44. Fights a stay in shape fight really but wins it.

2010. Age 45. Well Roy was what it was.
At close to 46, he then fought Pascal in an ugly but effective fight.

2011. Age 46. Rematches and beats Pascal lifting his 175 title.

2012. Age 47. Rematches Chad Dawson in defense of his title in a losing effort.

2013. Age 48. Challenges the undefeated IBF light heavyweight champ who is about half his age and puts on another clinic.

To be continued….

I agree with you. Hopkins is still the man