You Still Feel Pac Should Be #1 PFP Over The Pretty Boy?

[shza]

There is no debate for the #1 spot. Mayweather is the undisputed #1 PFP fighter in the world. He was before the Oscar fight, and he did nothing to hurt his status.

If we want to have a debate regarding Pacquiao, the debate is whether he's #2 or whether he's #3 behind Winky.

I agree. If it weren't for all the rabid Pac fans, I'd think that one was beyond debate too. I see Winky as the clearly better P4P fighter. He's obviously technically superior to Pac (everyone admits Pac has lots of flaws), he's fought equally good comp (Tito and Jermain were both higher than Morales P4P), and--unlike Pac--hasn't lost in years. I would hope that if Winky beats yet another P4P ATG in Hopkins, he gets back the #2 spot that he should have never lost in the first place. Pac's great to watch and all, but people really get carried away.

Technique or Result? that is the question. I believe it is result. Lets not forget Wright has 3 losses as well.

I think it's both, but I favor technique. It's fine if you disagree, because I think in this case it's irrelevant: Wright is superior to Pac on both fronts. Yes Wright has 3 losses. So does Pac. But Wright's last "loss" was what should have been a win over Vargas EIGHT YEARS AGO. His last legitimate loss was to Simon, nine years ago. In the meantime, Wright beat Mosley twice (a top 10 P4P fighter and former #1), Tito (a top 10 P4P fighter at the time), and drew (in what should have been a W) with Taylor, who was a top 5 P4P fighter coming of of back-to-back wins over the former #1 P4P fighter, B-Hop.

Pac's last loss was four years ago--HALF as long ago as Wright's--to a back-sliding Erik Morales who was already coming off a loss, and then proceeded to lose his next three fights (granted, two were to Pac, but EM looked like total shit in all of them). In the meantime, he's beaten a top 5 P4P fighter in Barrera, and a shot (but still maybe top 15 P4P in some people's minds) Erik Morales, and drew with JMM, in what could have been a loss. (He also beat Oscar Larios, who was coming up from two full weight divisions below.)

Anyway, I presume you'll agree that Winky overtakes Pac if he beats Hopkins? (that's an extra two divisions of weight-jumping for you, and yet another top 10 P4P fighter and an ATG who's better than anyone on Pac's resume) Right?

[JT Rock]

Dammit Floyds Sac Is Gonna Fall Of From Your Hugging 6 (11.3%)


Man, that options gaining ground

[Hairdoo]

There is no debate for the #1 spot. Mayweather is the undisputed #1 PFP fighter in the world. He was before the Oscar fight, and he did nothing to hurt his status.

If we want to have a debate regarding Pacquiao, the debate is whether he's #2 or whether he's #3 behind Winky.

I agree. If it weren't for all the rabid Pac fans, I'd think that one was beyond debate too. I see Winky as the clearly better P4P fighter. He's obviously technically superior to Pac (everyone admits Pac has lots of flaws), he's fought equally good comp (Tito and Jermain were both higher than Morales P4P), and--unlike Pac--hasn't lost in years. I would hope that if Winky beats yet another P4P ATG in Hopkins, he gets back the #2 spot that he should have never lost in the first place. Pac's great to watch and all, but people really get carried away.

Technique or Result? that is the question. I believe it is result. Lets not forget Wright has 3 losses as well.

Winky has only moved up one division in 17 years, Pac has moved through SIX divisions and won titles against the best.

The difficult part is imagining whether or not Winky's tight defense would hold up well enough if he was a Featherweight? I doubt it... I honestly wouldn't bet on Wright beating Barrera, Morales or Marquez at 130 pounds.

bcollins put it perfect...

If boxing can be summed up in terms of technique, then the technical fighter will always win. But that's not true, as history has proven countless times. Sometimes, a "flawed" fighter whips the living crap out of the "technically superior" fighter.

I think it's both, but I favor technique. It's fine if you disagree, because I think in this case it's irrelevant: Wright is superior to Pac on both fronts. Yes Wright has 3 losses. So does Pac. But Wright's last "loss" was what should have been a win over Vargas EIGHT YEARS AGO. His last legitimate loss was to Simon, nine years ago. In the meantime, Wright beat Mosley twice (a top 10 P4P fighter and former #1), Tito (a top 10 P4P fighter at the time), and drew (in what should have been a W) with Taylor, who was a top 5 P4P fighter coming of of back-to-back wins over the former #1 P4P fighter, B-Hop.

Pac's last loss was four years ago--HALF as long ago as Wright's--to a back-sliding Erik Morales who was already coming off a loss, and then proceeded to lose his next three fights (granted, two were to Pac, but EM looked like total S*** in all of them). In the meantime, he's beaten a top 5 P4P fighter in Barrera, and a shot (but still maybe top 15 P4P in some people's minds) Erik Morales, and drew with JMM, in what could have been a loss. (He also beat Oscar Larios, who was coming up from two full weight divisions below.)

Anyway, I presume you'll agree that Winky overtakes Pac if he beats Hopkins? (that's an extra two divisions of weight-jumping for you, and yet another top 10 P4P fighter and an ATG who's better than anyone on Pac's resume) Right?

ok good arguement

good enough to make me change my mind... for now.

but.. if Pac beats JJM and Winky loses to BHop then its safe to assume Pac is a shoein for #2.

[shza]

There is no debate for the #1 spot. Mayweather is the undisputed #1 PFP fighter in the world. He was before the Oscar fight, and he did nothing to hurt his status.

If we want to have a debate regarding Pacquiao, the debate is whether he's #2 or whether he's #3 behind Winky.

I agree. If it weren't for all the rabid Pac fans, I'd think that one was beyond debate too. I see Winky as the clearly better P4P fighter. He's obviously technically superior to Pac (everyone admits Pac has lots of flaws), he's fought equally good comp (Tito and Jermain were both higher than Morales P4P), and--unlike Pac--hasn't lost in years. I would hope that if Winky beats yet another P4P ATG in Hopkins, he gets back the #2 spot that he should have never lost in the first place. Pac's great to watch and all, but people really get carried away.

Technique or Result? that is the question. I believe it is result. Lets not forget Wright has 3 losses as well.

Winky has only moved up one division in 17 years, Pac has moved through SIX divisions and won titles against the best.

The difficult part is imagining whether or not Winky's tight defense would hold up well enough if he was a Featherweight? I doubt it... I honestly wouldn't bet on Wright beating Barrera, Morales or Marquez at 130 pounds.

bcollins put it perfect...

If boxing can be summed up in terms of technique, then the technical fighter will always win. But that's not true, as history has proven countless times. Sometimes, a "flawed" fighter whips the living crap out of the "technically superior" fighter.

I think it's both, but I favor technique. It's fine if you disagree, because I think in this case it's irrelevant: Wright is superior to Pac on both fronts. Yes Wright has 3 losses. So does Pac. But Wright's last "loss" was what should have been a win over Vargas EIGHT YEARS AGO. His last legitimate loss was to Simon, nine years ago. In the meantime, Wright beat Mosley twice (a top 10 P4P fighter and former #1), Tito (a top 10 P4P fighter at the time), and drew (in what should have been a W) with Taylor, who was a top 5 P4P fighter coming of of back-to-back wins over the former #1 P4P fighter, B-Hop.

Pac's last loss was four years ago--HALF as long ago as Wright's--to a back-sliding Erik Morales who was already coming off a loss, and then proceeded to lose his next three fights (granted, two were to Pac, but EM looked like total S*** in all of them). In the meantime, he's beaten a top 5 P4P fighter in Barrera, and a shot (but still maybe top 15 P4P in some people's minds) Erik Morales, and drew with JMM, in what could have been a loss. (He also beat Oscar Larios, who was coming up from two full weight divisions below.)

Anyway, I presume you'll agree that Winky overtakes Pac if he beats Hopkins? (that's an extra two divisions of weight-jumping for you, and yet another top 10 P4P fighter and an ATG who's better than anyone on Pac's resume) Right?

ok good arguement

good enough to make me change my mind... for now.

but.. if Pac beats JJM and Winky loses to BHop then its safe to assume Pac is a shoein for #2.

Agreed. (CC)

[Kev]

What if Calzaghe fights and beats Taylor at the end of the year though, does he jump above either Pacquiao or Wright?

[Killaruna]

if Pac beats JMM by KO in the rematch, he will be number one POUND for POUND.

Mayweather's Split Decision win over De La Hoya didnt impressed me at all.

if u don't agree, explain, coz most doubters here think that "pac has flaws, no skills"

and I tell u what tho, HE WILL KNOCK U OUT LOL!

peace.

[johnettelyanne]

definitely pac should be over floyd... theres a lot to be considered to be a p4p king. to be the #1 he should be willing to trade everything. he doesnt give a damn about his record or scared of loosing. Pac is willing to trade everything he doesnt care what he looks in the ring. he loves to fight thats why people love him. on the other hand, floyd keeps on running, he doesnt care if the fight is boring as long as he wins the fight and bag the money. that makes floyd go down on the p4p list.

[JT Rock]

definitely pac should be over floyd... theres a lot to be considered to be a p4p king. to be the #1 he should be willing to trade everything. he doesnt give a damn about his record or scared of loosing. Pac is willing to trade everything he doesnt care what he looks in the ring. he loves to fight thats why people love him. on the other hand, floyd keeps on running, he doesnt care if the fight is boring as long as he wins the fight and bag the money. that makes floyd go down on the p4p list.

The only fight he was perceived running was against Baldomir.... So that statement is pretty overused, shot, and holds no water around here unless your an Overzealous Pac-Fan.

How many times has Pac been KO'D before?

[Julius Rain]

definitely pac should be over floyd... theres a lot to be considered to be a p4p king. to be the #1 he should be willing to trade everything. he doesnt give a damn about his record or scared of loosing. Pac is willing to trade everything he doesnt care what he looks in the ring. he loves to fight thats why people love him. on the other hand, floyd keeps on running, he doesnt care if the fight is boring as long as he wins the fight and bag the money. that makes floyd go down on the p4p list.

The only fight he was perceived running was against Baldomir.... So that statement is pretty overused, shot, and holds no water around here unless your an Overzealous Pac-Fan.

How many times has Pac been KO'D before?

twice!

but that question or statement is even more overused and is pretty old atleast the baldomir fight was recent those k.o lost were years ago and a young pacman that couldn't handle draining himself anymore so yea he got k.o via body shot and lowblow. ITS NOT LIKE IT WAS A CHIN SHOT you have to agree though bRo pac has improve and has a damn good chin and hard body right? right.

[Julius Rain]

and isn't it true that p4p is not base on whole career, its base on whos hot right now and look unstoppable. ain't nobody can stop pac around 130 not guzman not valero and not even jmm.

at welterweights pbf has a rich quality of oppenents that he just left behind, he move up to fight oscar in a snoozer. just beat welterweight champ baldomir in yea another snooze fest. the good thing about floyd is that he moves up in weight and wins but then again thats another bad thing about floyd he moves up and win but he leaves behind plenty of fighters that we want him to fight. floyd is got but he ain't hot like pac. pac is the truth the boy don't give a damn he'll fight anyone, while worrying about his congress campaigne he hott like that.

[JT Rock]

and isn't it true that p4p is not base on whole career, its base on whos hot right now and look unstoppable. ain't nobody can stop pac around 130 not guzman not valero and not even jmm.

at welterweights pbf has a rich quality of oppenents that he just left behind, he move up to fight oscar in a snoozer. just beat welterweight champ baldomir in yea another snooze fest. the good thing about floyd is that he moves up in weight and wins but then again thats another bad thing about floyd he moves up and win but he leaves behind plenty of fighters that we want him to fight. floyd is got but he ain't hot like pac. pac is the truth the boy don't give a damn he'll fight anyone, while worrying about his congress campaigne he hott like that.

Would you still Blow him shat, if he moved up to Middle and outboxed Taylor?
That would have made him undisputed 147lber
Beat the Number one 154lber
Then moves up to Middle and claims the Undisputed Middleweight championship of the world.... That would be pretty damn impressive

[Julius Rain]

and isn't it true that p4p is not base on whole career, its base on whos hot right now and look unstoppable. ain't nobody can stop pac around 130 not guzman not valero and not even jmm.

at welterweights pbf has a rich quality of oppenents that he just left behind, he move up to fight oscar in a snoozer. just beat welterweight champ baldomir in yea another snooze fest. the good thing about floyd is that he moves up in weight and wins but then again thats another bad thing about floyd he moves up and win but he leaves behind plenty of fighters that we want him to fight. floyd is got but he ain't hot like pac. pac is the truth the boy don't give a damn he'll fight anyone, while worrying about his congress campaigne he hott like that.

Would you still Blow him shat, if he moved up to Middle and outboxed Taylor?
That would have made him undisputed 147lber
Beat the Number one 154lber
Then moves up to Middle and claims the Undisputed Middleweight championship of the world.... That would be pretty damn impressive

it'll be impressive on paper but i doubt it being impressive in the ring.

[JT Rock]

and isn't it true that p4p is not base on whole career, its base on whos hot right now and look unstoppable. ain't nobody can stop pac around 130 not guzman not valero and not even jmm.

at welterweights pbf has a rich quality of oppenents that he just left behind, he move up to fight oscar in a snoozer. just beat welterweight champ baldomir in yea another snooze fest. the good thing about floyd is that he moves up in weight and wins but then again thats another bad thing about floyd he moves up and win but he leaves behind plenty of fighters that we want him to fight. floyd is got but he ain't hot like pac. pac is the truth the boy don't give a damn he'll fight anyone, while worrying about his congress campaigne he hott like that.

Would you still Blow him shat, if he moved up to Middle and outboxed Taylor?
That would have made him undisputed 147lber
Beat the Number one 154lber
Then moves up to Middle and claims the Undisputed Middleweight championship of the world.... That would be pretty damn impressive

it'll be impressive on paper but i doubt it being impressive in the ring.

YOU REALLY SMOKING THE WACKY CRACKY NOW

[Julius Rain]

and isn't it true that p4p is not base on whole career, its base on whos hot right now and look unstoppable. ain't nobody can stop pac around 130 not guzman not valero and not even jmm.

at welterweights pbf has a rich quality of oppenents that he just left behind, he move up to fight oscar in a snoozer. just beat welterweight champ baldomir in yea another snooze fest. the good thing about floyd is that he moves up in weight and wins but then again thats another bad thing about floyd he moves up and win but he leaves behind plenty of fighters that we want him to fight. floyd is got but he ain't hot like pac. pac is the truth the boy don't give a damn he'll fight anyone, while worrying about his congress campaigne he hott like that.

Would you still Blow him shat, if he moved up to Middle and outboxed Taylor?
That would have made him undisputed 147lber
Beat the Number one 154lber
Then moves up to Middle and claims the Undisputed Middleweight championship of the world.... That would be pretty damn impressive

it'll be impressive on paper but i doubt it being impressive in the ring.

YOU REALLY SMOKING THE WACKY CRACKY NOW

its one thing to win a decision, but its another to actually beat up an oppenent hope you get what i'm saying. because yes floyd beat baldomir and yes he beat oscar but he didn't beat them up like great fighters do, you bet ur ass I'm right about that brotha thats what p4p is about baby whooping ass not boring decisions fwock that its ruining the sport

[El Gamo]

JT,I agree with most of what you are saying aart from Floyd beating the number 1 154pounder. Oscar is the most acclopished 154pounder,but no way number 1. Guys like Simms,Spinks,Kamzazin would give him hell at this stge. In fact nowhere have I seen Oscar as the number 1 guy at 154 pounds.