Twin Towers WTC v Grenfell Tower

[walrus]

Beanz, I have to say I have a lot to say at the moment and most of it is disagreeing with you, I'm too drunk to articulate my thoughts at the minute though, plus I think (or hope) that I have got the wrong end of the stick.

I'm gunna re-read this tomorrow before I take the moral high ground.

so when I say in my opening line that I have to say that I have a lot to say, what I really mean is that I think I have a lot to say but I'm not going to say it just yet because I'm not sure if what I have to say is what I mean to say or if I am fully understanding the comments that have caused me to feel that I have a lot to say...at present though I disagree with you Beanz, however I will be more than happy to reevaluate my views tomorrow

I'm just glad that Paul Kevin lives on

After that rambling post I think I am starting to appreciate PK.

This man is wise to the zog

[El Kabong]

When you're wanting to force place people in property you don't own yeah those property owners didn't sign up for that any more than those folks signed up for the fire.Now should the government say "house these people and we'll give you some benefit should you want it" fine.After hurricane Katrina we here in the US had to deal with that same thing on a much larger scale.Grandstand all you like comrade

They are empty properties, some not even finished being built and they are social housing. Paid for by the government who caused the death of those relatives by cost cutting and you, all the way over in America are pissed about this?

Empty properties owned by people who can decide what to use them for and who to rent to.

YOU don't own the properties or else YOU could let everyone live there for free!

[Beanz]

What a fucking horrible heartless husk of a cunt you are then. Scallies?That is the extent of your empathy for ordinary people? Victims of austerity and corporate manslaughter. People that could not escape a fire because fire exits were blocked and their business was turned into a torch because it offended the rich? And you want to deny them the dignity of a home because in your opinion they are not middle class enough.

[Beanz]

When you're wanting to force place people in property you don't own yeah those property owners didn't sign up for that any more than those folks signed up for the fire.Now should the government say "house these people and we'll give you some benefit should you want it" fine.After hurricane Katrina we here in the US had to deal with that same thing on a much larger scale.Grandstand all you like comrade

They are empty properties, some not even finished being built and they are social housing. Paid for by the government who caused the death of those relatives by cost cutting and you, all the way over in America are pissed about this?

Empty properties owned by people who can decide what to use them for and who to rent to. YOU don't own the properties or else YOU could let everyone live there for free!

They are set aside for social housing. That is one of the conditions for building the luxury flats next door. Council tenants pay rent you cunt. I was born in a tower like that one.

[walrus]

When you're wanting to force place people in property you don't own yeah those property owners didn't sign up for that any more than those folks signed up for the fire.Now should the government say "house these people and we'll give you some benefit should you want it" fine.After hurricane Katrina we here in the US had to deal with that same thing on a much larger scale.Grandstand all you like comrade

They are empty properties, some not even finished being built and they are social housing. Paid for by the government who caused the death of those relatives by cost cutting and you, all the way over in America are pissed about this?

Empty properties owned by people who can decide what to use them for and who to rent to. YOU don't own the properties or else YOU could let everyone live there for free!

They are set aside for social housing. That is one of the conditions for building the luxury flats next door. Council tenants pay rent you cunt. I was born in a tower like that one.

Oh yeah well I walked uphill to school in three feet of snow with no shoes both ways as I was a po boy

[walrus]

Kill the po, kill the po. Only way to balance the budget

[Beanz]

But think of l the diversity u are missing, it's enrichment

Trust me. If you put 30 estate families in my building with their petty crime, smoking, weed etc, then things would turn to shit pretty quickly. Sometimes 'diversity' is the last thing you need. Let a lawyer into the building and maybe he can have a kid, but a lawyer, plus 30 other families, 10 of them not even working, the others taking local jobs. It does not work and I wouldn't want them to try it. It would make life worse for the local population and it would make my life worse too. I don't want them. Thankfully those people mostly have no way of getting in.

Sorry to disappoint you Miles but you are in no way an independent thinker. This was your response. The Grenfull tower residents are estate families but apparently you don't want them being rehoused anywhere near people like you. Rather than being sent hundreds of miles away they are to be rehoused in social housing next to luxury flats and you are more worried about the rich people (many of them foreigners and many leaving them empty as land banking) in the luxury flats.

[Fenster]

Miles, you're a two a penny English teacher, given the chance all the "scummy riff-raff" kids could do what you do. You're equating the worst stereotype of scumbags on a council estate to everyone.

The VAST MAJORITY that live on council estates grow up, get jobs, be just as successful as you in their chosen profession, have families and exist on this planet without ever committing crimes or being social pariahs.

At a petrol station a group of kids asked if you want a fight? Wow! Lets swiftly depart this disgusting barbaric land. Are you having a laugh? Maybe they were thinking why is this lanky posh twat gawking at us like we're meant to be in a zoo.

And how do you equate the very worst of modern day paupers with immigrants? So the poor, uneducated scallies are not good enough to be in your presence and neither are culturally different migrants, you know, because they rape and breed too much.

Seriously, and you get upset because someone calls you a pretentious snob? At least admit/accept you're a pretentious snob cunt. Jesus...

[Beanz]

My final comment on this as I don't think it is particularly important, but the record should be set straight. Walrus made an ironic comment and I was responding solely to that comment. I didn't mention anyone from Grenfell Tower. I have no idea who those people are and there may be some good people, there may be some rotters. It doesn't matter. My response was based on my own personal experiences living on council estates and I think they are scary places that contain some of the most dangerous elements in a society. I am just happy that I do not live on a council estate and that I am mostly surrounded by ordinary working folk who seem less freaky than the people I knew on council estates. I hope my position is understood loud and clear. I don't know why I am even having to clarify such a point. Comprehension skills are clearly being reduced and I blame Facebook and fluoride, both of which I avoid as I am just too much of a cunt elitist snob. It is also preposterous to suggest that I would ever stare at somebody. Anybody who knows me knows that I do not make excessive eye contact with anyone. I keep such behavior to a minimum as I know full well what it is like to be stared at. I try to show respect until someone else throws the first stone, but I don't throw stones anymore and would appreciate it if people would not abuse me or look for meaning that isn't even there.

wow

[El Kabong]

When you're wanting to force place people in property you don't own yeah those property owners didn't sign up for that any more than those folks signed up for the fire.Now should the government say "house these people and we'll give you some benefit should you want it" fine.After hurricane Katrina we here in the US had to deal with that same thing on a much larger scale.Grandstand all you like comrade

They are empty properties, some not even finished being built and they are social housing. Paid for by the government who caused the death of those relatives by cost cutting and you, all the way over in America are pissed about this?

Empty properties owned by people who can decide what to use them for and who to rent to. YOU don't own the properties or else YOU could let everyone live there for free!

They are set aside for social housing. That is one of the conditions for building the luxury flats next door. Council tenants pay rent you cunt. I was born in a tower like that one.

1. Then take that up with the owners not me.

2. I know they pay rent thank you for A) missing the point and B ) choosing to insult me afterwards.

3. Good for you, being born is the most difficult thing some folks do their entire lives.

[Fenster]

Miles, you rattle on about your hero Jeremy "uncontrolled immigration" Corbyn and imprisoning Tony Blair for destroying the middle east yet it's Blair who you want as your neighbour not his "victims."

Now I don't have a problem with your view but at least accept what you are. Don't try and portray some righteous/virtuous stance when your attitude is - fuck everyone else as long as i'm alright. You have many pals on here - like DLA - that share your values but he fully accepts he's a brutal cunt.

Given the chance of a semi-decent education and a couple of years dossing around at university anyone could do your job. That's not criticism, i'm sure you're terrific at speaking English, but it is something anyone, regardless of physical health, from any walk of society could do... given the chance.

[El Kabong]

I'm having trouble understanding this, what legal footing are you lot standing on when you're demanding those empty buildings be filled with these people who are out of a home because of a tragic fire?

If you're saying "The government needs to just take it" then I'm sorry THAT is tyrannical. Now while you may see it as "unfeeling" or "cold hearted" that ain't a part of the contract that went in to acquiring that property, there's no clause that says "If a fire happens and a lot of people are without homes, you HAVE to care about it and allow them to move into your property which you own." That clause doesn't exist nor should it. And not temporary either? So pitchforks and torches then? Just have the people rise up and TAKE the property then? Well that'll bode well for future investment in your country I am certain.


Now I'm not saying the Government couldn't try to make it worth the property owners' while to house those folks, but I'm sure you already are of the mindset that those "Evil rich people" are too rich as it is.



Property rights mean something

[Beanz]

I'm having trouble understanding this, what legal footing are you lot standing on when you're demanding those empty buildings be filled with these people who are out of a home because of a tragic fire?

If you're saying "The government needs to just take it" then I'm sorry THAT is tyrannical. Now while you may see it as "unfeeling" or "cold hearted" that ain't a part of the contract that went in to acquiring that property, there's no clause that says "If a fire happens and a lot of people are without homes, you HAVE to care about it and allow them to move into your property which you own." That clause doesn't exist nor should it. And not temporary either? So pitchforks and torches then? Just have the people rise up and TAKE the property then? Well that'll bode well for future investment in your country I am certain.


Now I'm not saying the Government couldn't try to make it worth the property owners' while to house those folks, but I'm sure you already are of the mindset that those "Evil rich people" are too rich as it is.



Property rights mean something

You are way too sure of other people's mindsets.


Try reading any of the replies so far and then take a deep breath.
Tyrannical? You are having a giraffe. The Government is buying social housing that is set aside for people like those from Grenfell Tower. The buildings are not even finished and the developer is getting more than market value to finish even more quickly. It was always going to be social housing and so the only difference now is that the tenants are those made homeless by a penny pinching government that cost 79 lives are now no longer going to be homeless.

And you have the piss taking attitude to suggest that property rights of those next door in the luxury apartments should stop people you think "made the wrong choices" from moving in?


Nowhere has anybody here said (but obviously the right wing twaddle you read has suggested) the Government needs to just take it.


Why are you lot so extreme?

[El Kabong]

You are way too sure of other people's mindsets.


Try reading any of the replies so far and then take a deep breath.
Tyrannical? You are having a giraffe. The Government is buying social housing that is set aside for people like those from Grenfell Tower. The buildings are not even finished and the developer is getting more than market value to finish even more quickly. It was always going to be social housing and so the only difference now is that the tenants are those made homeless by a penny pinching government that cost 79 lives are now no longer going to be homeless.

And you have the piss taking attitude to suggest that property rights of those next door in the luxury apartments should stop people you think "made the wrong choices" from moving in?


Nowhere has anybody here said (but obviously the right wing twaddle you read has suggested) the Government needs to just take it.


Why are you lot so extreme?

Yeah, THAT's the way to respond to this Beanz, bravo


You mean reading comments like ....and I quote "Wow"? Which was in response to a SIMPLE question from me and you just started out in that manner, your choice sir and a WISE one it was. I wasn't looking for any altercation with you, just a clarification, but apparently you're too touched by this event to reasonably and rationally respond so you bring out the name calling and condescending attitude......thanks, I appreciate it as always. I haven't said "Beanz you're full of shit you fucking cocksucker" ....I was being nice and even after the insults you hurled at me, I'm being nice, I'm purposely NOT attempting to offend you, but I have seen that this show of manners isn't being reciprocated and now I'm wondering why I should continue acting in this manner when you're having a full go at me....hey bud, I didn't start the fire, I didn't make the rules, I didn't do anything wrong. All I did was ask questions and state what should be very understandable, but no no Beanz wishes to teach me a lesson.


For the government to DEMAND private property, yes, that's tyrannical Life, Liberty, Pursuit of Property/Happiness. But hey, all it takes a a tug on ol' Beanz's heartstrings and he'll start a crusade for the less fortunate regardless of the effects on anyone else. "Oh your projects burned down well here go live in a fancy ass building you could never afford on your own"....not typical of the way things work out. Typically (in the MEAN EVIL WORLD ooooh so scary) insurance pays for temporary housing, government assistance may even be used to help with temporary housing, but when housing is found it's typically TYPICALLY the same value and not above the value of the previous location.

I'm not saying these folks can't sue the government for their troubles, I'm not saying they should remain homeless, I'm not saying anything bad....all I'm saying is the government can't come into a property say "Like Columbus before me I claim this space for _______" without any input from the owner, that's all I'm saying but apparently that's too much for Beanz so he has chosen, he has made the PERSONAL CHOICE to attack me.

THANK YOU BEANZ


Perhaps I shouldn't be communicating with you at all if this is what you're going to be like....if I do respond to you again, I'll be choosing my words for you very VERY carefully.

[Beanz]

Lyle just read the replies.


Don't assume anything and you will be fine.


Contemplate the possibility that you may not know more about the UK than those of us living here and stop making stuff up.