Team Ward dare Joe Calzaghe to come out of retirement

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Chris Byrd was basically the Jimmy Young of his era

Im still trying to get over that part! Young wasn't even a southpaw ffs! He finished with a record of:Won 34 (KO 11) Lost 19 and Drew 2! He never even won a belt for frigg sake! Jimmy Young was a cutesy boxer and a spoiler yes. He was brave, had heart and was hard to look good against but he was not a great heavyweight!

'But but but he fought ali bla bla bla.....'

Well it just shows the limitations of those fighters, not young's greatness! Truth hurt's, i know the old timer nostalgia syndrome blinds on to thus but...

Anyway i must stop now!

[ICB]

Nothing is irking me your the one getting frustrated, because you keep throwing around name calling you've called me a "lemon" and a "goon" now for having a different opinion to you. If you can't debate with someone without rage typing in caps or throwing around name calling don't debate with me end of.

There similar because they were both small/spoiler/skilled Heavyweight's with not much power, it doesn't matter if Jimmy Young wasn't a Southpaw. Also Jimmy Young happened to be in the strongest Heavyweight era in history which is big difference.

Also again you say facts but not whole facts, you bring up Jimmy Young's record. And fail to mention he should of got the nod over Ken Norton, Muhammad Ali, Earnie Shavers 2, all 3 of those fights were highly controversial. And had he maybe of had the same luck Chris Byrd had in getting controversial decisions over McCline, Golota, Oquendo, then maybe Jimmy Young could of been rated alot higher.

Also how can you not give him credit for beating George Foreman seriously ? i don't understand your opinion's at all. He had to take a pounding in the 7th round from a massive puncher like George Foreman, and comeback and dropped him in the 12th round to win a clear decision how can he not get credit for that ? or for losing highly controversial decisions to Ken Norton, Muhammad Ali, Earnie Shavers 2 ? or how about decisioning Ron Lyle twice ?

Yet Chris Byrd gets credit for getting for getting gift decisions ? in fights where most people thought he lost to Golota and especially Oquendo.

As for your other comments regarding Rahman, Mercer. Again your opinion which wouldn't be shared with many other people. I don't think many people would agree a 41 year old Ray Mercer was as good as the Ray Mercer Lennox Lewis fought. Forgetting the weight wasn't Riddick Bowe the same he weighed vs Evander Holyfield 1 for the rematch vs Andrew Golota in the rematch yet he looked shot and bad in that fight ? and what did Ray Mercer do after that fight ? he won a few fights against complete nobodies then lost to an average Shannon Briggs, again this is splitting hairs you think this i think this. But i honestly think if you made a poll i don't think your opinion would be favoured but whatever who cares.

Wladimir Klitschko fought Hasim Rahman "7 years after" Lennox Lewis did. Which is why people called it a joke fight. But of course he obviously was the same fighter despite people lambasting the fight saying Rahman is no longer significant in the Heavyweight division.


Lastly again splitting hairs, yes Lennox Lewis is not "exactly the same" as Wladimir Klitschko. But they do have attributes and style in common, and i think Lennox Lewis would KO Wladimir Klitschko despite all these comments about how supposedly he's better than Lennox Lewis, i also think he would have little trouble with Chris Byrd. And its an opinion which would be favoured.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

[/QUOTE]Nothing is irking me your the one getting frustrated, because you keep throwing around name calling you've called me a "lemon" and a "goon" now for having a different opinion to you. If you can't debate with someone without rage typing in caps or throwing around name calling don't debate with me end of[/QUOTE]I did not even know i had put those two 'slights 'in my post...I guess it's years of posting on these forums, shit talking comes automatically LOL. They come easier than a comma nowadays i suppose....so i will apoologise for that.

There similar because they were both small/spoiler/skilled Heavyweight's with not much power, it doesn't matter if Jimmy Young wasn't a Southpaw. Also Jimmy Young happened to be in the strongest Heavyweight era in history which is big difference.

It doesn't matter if he fought in the golden AMERICAN era, So did henry cooper and joe bugner! Yes he put up valiant efforts against the 'big guns' of the era (But so did cooper and bugner!) It was hardly a diverse era was it? I mean no Cubans, no EE's etc....Thats why i laugh when i hear that the klitschkos would falter in that era (an era full of sub 200lb fighters!) an era in which Cooper and bugner could rattle the hell out of frazier and ali yet the klitschko's couldn't!! LOL.

A lot of those men well were under 200lbs also, byrd fought SHW's,advantage byrd!!

Also again you say facts but not whole facts, you bring up Jimmy Young's record. And fail to mention he should of got the nod over Ken Norton, Muhammad Ali, Earnie Shavers 2, all 3 of those fights were highly controversial. And had he maybe of had the same luck Chris Byrd had in getting controversial decisions over McCline, Golota, Oquendo, then maybe Jimmy Young could of been rated alot higher.

Are u saying young beat ali, norton,shavers and frazier then?? That would make him the greatest HW ever in some ppl's eyes!! Well u clearly are because you have said so! So young was the most succesful HW of THE GOLDEN ERA then by your reckoning!

I think u wil find he fought alot of those men as the era was shifting towards the 80's........Look what happened to young then!! Ali and foreman were 230lbs when he fought them too, dont forget foreman was in a bad place, he retired after that fight, remember??! Great fight though...

Also how can you not give him credit for beating George Foreman seriously ? i don't understand your opinion's at all. He had to take a pounding in the 7th round from a massive puncher like George Foreman, and comeback and dropped him in the 12th round to win a clear decision how can he not get credit for that ? or for losing highly controversial decisions to Ken Norton, Muhammad Ali, Earnie Shavers 2 ? or how about decisioning Ron Lyle twice ?

Ron lyle was 37 and never that good anyway! Beating shavers was not difficult, everytime he stepped up he got found out! In truth he was just a big punching 200lb journeyman who never won a belt! Jerry quarry was the most underrated fighter of that era IMO. Shavers stopped young and drew with him, byrd drew with golota who though much chinnier was in a different league to shavers! Oh wait we are gunna hear the 'shavers wudda killed golota' nonsense soon i guess...Shavers was not lennox lewis! And he quit vs tyson!

Lets look at some others who byrd beat:

Jose Ribalta Who had fought Mike Tyson, Tim Witherspoon, Bruce Seldon, Donovan Ruddock, Leon Spinks, Tony Tubbs, and Frank Bruno; Byrd stopped him in the fourth round!

Jimmy Thunder who was a former gold medallist and IBO champion (byrd stopped him in the 9th round) thunder holds wins over trevor berbick, tony tubbs and tim witherspoon and he also lost a very close SD to john ruiz.

Also throw in mames like hard hitting bert cooper who put both holyfield and michael moorer on the seat of there pants (and had them out on there feet in fact!). Phil jackson (who had only lost to lennox and donovan ruddock at the time) Byrd schooled him! etc etc.

Yet Chris Byrd gets credit for getting for getting gift decisions ? in fights where most people thought he lost to Golota and especially Oquendo.

I could argue young lost most of the fights u seem to have given him! It's u being overly generous to young, byrd vs mcline and golota were never big controversies, i acquiesced to oquendo (although byrd did start coming back at him later on!) u have made young out to be the greatest HW ever! So he lost to fres big deal, young loost to Randy Neumann, probably lost to bummy billy aird, Ossie Ocasio outboxed him twice, dokes, page, tucker, Philipp Brown etc beat him and he was probably gifted a decision over 22-9 jeff sims! Oquendo is better than sims...

As for your other comments regarding Rahman, Mercer. Again your opinion which wouldn't be shared with many other people. I don't think many people would agree a 41 year old Ray Mercer was as good as the Ray Mercer Lennox Lewis fought. Forgetting the weight wasn't Riddick Bowe the same he weighed vs Evander Holyfield 1 for the rematch vs Andrew Golota in the rematch yet he looked shot and bad in that fight ? and what did Ray Mercer do after that fight ? he won a few fights against complete nobodies then lost to an average Shannon Briggs, again this is splitting hairs you think this i think this. But i honestly think if you made a poll i don't think your opinion would be favoured but whatever who cares.

I don't care what POPULAR opinion is, i tend to use my own mind rather than following the popular concencus which has proven to be wrong time & time again in boxing....

Wladimir Klitschko fought Hasim Rahman "7 years after" Lennox Lewis did. Which is why people called it a joke fight. But of course he obviously was the same fighter despite people lambasting the fight saying Rahman is no longer significant in the Heavyweight division.

So say prime rahman beats prime wlad then! Why don't u explain the facts surounding this fight? Klitschkowas originally scheduled to meet Alexander Povetkin in a mandatory defence of the IBF title but Povetkin pulled out due to an injury. Rahman was ranked #4 by the IBF. Rahman was 36 the same age as wlad now...It's not wlads fault that he is superior to rahman or that rahman is unable to match the greatness of wladimir klitschko! Lews fought holy 7/8 years after bowe did! Whats your point? Wlad never cared much about rahman, who cares when they fought! Rahman is not top 10 on wlads resume IMO. Prime rahman would not be top 5 on wlads resume also! Look at mercer here:











LOL. He was 228lbs vs wlad! Older yes but look at fighters like hopkins, vitali and holyfield! Mercer started much later as a pro than some of them too...Even emanuel stewart has stated he has never been more nervous about a decision being read, Look at lewis LOL.

Lastly again splitting hairs, yes Lennox Lewis is not "exactly the same" as Wladimir Klitschko. But they do have attributes and style in common, and i think Lennox Lewis would KO Wladimir Klitschko

Depends which wlad shows up. And which corner steward chose to sit in...

despite all these comments about how supposedly he's better than Lennox Lewis, i also think he would have little trouble with Chris Byrd. And its an opinion which would be favoured

It's an opinion i don't share.

[imp]

Lewis was a fat shell of himself and he was still dominating! Come on, so lewis is prime ducker now?

He dropped his belt rather than face his mandatory! What does that tell u? A champ faces his mandatories. I think he avoided sanders too.

Prime Sanders might have ko Lewis. Prime 100% Fully Motivated Corrie Sanders.

Sanders KO Lewis 2
Byrd SD Lewis 12

Sanders vs. Byrd for the true undisputed title and lineage. Book it, baby! Vanilla SouthPaw beat the Chocolate Southpaw is the real question? Sanders has reach and power..but Byrd has slickness? I'm totally torn.

As for fat old lewis u are talking shit! He was 250 for tyson, 256 for VK and 246 for holy. Secondly he was only a year older than wlad is now when he retired and had just put on one of his career defining performances in his superfight with tyson! What the hell was the 235lb version of tyson that lewis fought? He went onto get kayoed by danny williams! Tysons average prime weight was 220lbs! (see bruno fights!) How about a 38 yr old holy? Double standards anyone! Lewis a shot linear champ....go figure!!

If anyone was a shell it was 32 yr old vitali klitschko who had carried numerous injuries through from his kickboxing days and had 11 days notice to fight the linear champ! Secondly vitali weighed 250lbs he regularly scaled at 245lbs so if lewis was 5 lbs overweight so was vitali! Personally i dont think we truly ever saw the best vitali klitschko! I mean he has been plagued with injuries his entire career, most brought about through his pro career in kicboxing as a youth (a much more brutal game than the boxing am's or pro boxing!)

If u want to talk prime lewis then let's talk about when lennox blew it in the 90's against tyson by being blown out in 2 by featherfisted mcall!

So let me get this right just so i have an idea..your top pound for pound list goes something like this...

1. Joe calzaghe
2. Vitali klits
3. Vlad klits
4. Etc

Please confirm this. Everyones entitled to there opinion and view.
All three of these fighters would have been tough in any era..but

[Dark Lord Al]

As much as i dislike Calzaghe why would he take the fight , he is old and rusty , and apart from money i dont see what beating Calzaghe would do for Ward.
It would be no more of an achievement than Calzaghe beating Roy Jones or Hopkins.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

As much as i dislike Calzaghe why would he take the fight , he is old and rusty , and apart from money i dont see what beating Calzaghe would do for Ward.
It would be no more of an achievement than Calzaghe beating Roy Jones or Hopkins.

You know... Fot a second... I almost thought you'd posted in the wrong thread

[Dropanuke]

As much as i dislike Calzaghe why would he take the fight , he is old and rusty , and apart from money i dont see what beating Calzaghe would do for Ward.
It would be no more of an achievement than Calzaghe beating Roy Jones or Hopkins.

This concludes the thread lol

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

As much as i dislike Calzaghe why would he take the fight , he is old and rusty , and apart from money i dont see what beating Calzaghe would do for Ward.
It would be no more of an achievement than Calzaghe beating Roy Jones or Hopkins.

How on earth would late 20's ward beating 3 years retired 40 yr old calzaghe be comparable to 36/7 yr old calzaghe beating lineal champ hopkins @ LHW and 39 yr old jones on the comeback trail? Silly comparison....

A better comparison of calzaghe v jones/hopkins would be lewis v old tyson and holyfield.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

So let me get this right just so i have an idea..your top pound for pound list goes something like this...

1. Joe calzaghe
2. Vitali klits
3. Vlad Please confirm this.klits
4. Etc

P4P in what sense? It's hard to rate HW's in a P4P sense? My two greatest p4p Hw's ever are marciano and holyfield! Calzaghe is retired but at his best i had him top 3 P4P in the world! My top 5 p4p now are Manny, Money, Martinez, Ward and Adamek.