Not GGG bashing but...

[powerpuncher]

Canelo is definitely overrated by the masses. He may be underrated but some more hardcore fans. @TitoFan just hates Mexican fighters 😁

Canelo is a really good fighter, but he is massively overrated because he isn’t a top five fighter but is generally a consensus top 3. He is in the bottom half of the top 10.

[Gandalf]

For me Canelo is a SOLID fighter. He doesn't do anything exceptional. He doesn't stop opponents with power, he never dominates a top fighter, he goes 12 with the Matthew Hatton's of the world and loses badly to the Mayweather types, and takes way too much time off in rounds, but he does have skills and is very durable. I just think people are being honest when they criticize him. For me he is like a speeded up Baldomir with better movement. I think it is one reason Mayweather took him on. He knew he could pick him off. Hopefully he doesn't end up like Baldomir as he is a weirdo.

[Fenster]

Canelo is already a great and currently P4P top five with just about every reputable historian/publication/"expert" and genuine boxing fan on the planet. Why? These people are judging him purely on his boxing career, with a neutral mind and without outside influences. He's beat/fought more top names than anyone apart from Manny. Fact.

However, Beanz is right, if you read forums like this you'd think he was a useless hype job. Why? Simply the fact most fans can't separate their emotion and bias when assessing fighters.

[Gandalf]

Canelo is already a great and currently P4P top five with just about every reputable historian/publication/"expert" and genuine boxing fan on the planet. Why? These people are judging him purely on his boxing career, with a neutral mind and without outside influences. He's beat/fought more top names than anyone apart from Manny. Fact.

However, Beanz is right, if you read forums like this you'd think he was a useless hype job. Why? Simply the fact most fans can't separate their emotion and bias when assessing fighters.

I swear you are trolling. Many have him with 5 losses on his resume and he has not beaten a top fighter convincingly. He is overrated because of those decisions. If he is top 5 then what does that make GGG who as good as he is is still in the words of Calzaghe somewhat 'one dimensional'. Canelo lost both times. Canelo doesn't stay in a division and prove himself, he doesn't rematch fights beyond GGG, and so there are many question marks. He was beaten easily by Mayweather who went night and day with Maidana. He was outboxed by Khan, by Lara, by GGG. He took on an ancient Mosley and Cotto. It is smoke and mirrors. There is no emotion in pointing these things out.

That is where people say overrated when they hear comments like yours, Fenster. Sure he is slick and has handspeed, but he seldom sustains it to win a clean decision unless it is to stop chinny Khan or Fielding.

Hopefully Kovalev is not battle weary and lands that jab on the button and a few mean leads. Now that is emotion as I like Kovalev and think he has been stiffed GGG style himself.

[Fenster]

Canelo is already a great and currently P4P top five with just about every reputable historian/publication/"expert" and genuine boxing fan on the planet. Why? These people are judging him purely on his boxing career, with a neutral mind and without outside influences. He's beat/fought more top names than anyone apart from Manny. Fact.

However, Beanz is right, if you read forums like this you'd think he was a useless hype job. Why? Simply the fact most fans can't separate their emotion and bias when assessing fighters.

I swear you are trolling. Many have him with 5 losses on his resume and he has not beaten a top fighter convincingly. He is overrated because of those decisions. If he is top 5 then what does that make GGG who as good as he is is still in the words of Calzaghe somewhat 'one dimensional'. Canelo lost both times. Canelo doesn't stay in a division and prove himself, he doesn't rematch fights beyond GGG, and so there are many question marks. He was beaten easily by Mayweather who went night and day with Maidana. He was outboxed by Khan, by Lara, by GGG. He took on an ancient Mosley and Cotto. It is smoke and mirrors. There is no emotion in pointing these things out.

That is where people say overrated when they hear comments like yours, Fenster. Sure he is slick and has handspeed, but he seldom sustains it to win a clean decision unless it is to stop chinny Khan or Fielding.

Hopefully Kovalev is not battle weary and lands that jab on the button and a few mean leads. Now that is emotion as I like Kovalev and think he has been stiffed GGG style himself.

Funk me, couldn't make it up. Thanks for proving my point.

Your post is utterly cringeworthy - "beaten easily by Mayweather who struggled with Maidana"......"outboxed by Khan".... "Cotto and Mosley don't count".... "Lara robbed".... It is biased childish stuff. Childish.

Seriously, dudes, it doesn't get more embarrassing than using a loss to Floyd as a put-down. Come on...

[Gandalf]

Canelo is already a great and currently P4P top five with just about every reputable historian/publication/"expert" and genuine boxing fan on the planet. Why? These people are judging him purely on his boxing career, with a neutral mind and without outside influences. He's beat/fought more top names than anyone apart from Manny. Fact.

However, Beanz is right, if you read forums like this you'd think he was a useless hype job. Why? Simply the fact most fans can't separate their emotion and bias when assessing fighters.

I swear you are trolling. Many have him with 5 losses on his resume and he has not beaten a top fighter convincingly. He is overrated because of those decisions. If he is top 5 then what does that make GGG who as good as he is is still in the words of Calzaghe somewhat 'one dimensional'. Canelo lost both times. Canelo doesn't stay in a division and prove himself, he doesn't rematch fights beyond GGG, and so there are many question marks. He was beaten easily by Mayweather who went night and day with Maidana. He was outboxed by Khan, by Lara, by GGG. He took on an ancient Mosley and Cotto. It is smoke and mirrors. There is no emotion in pointing these things out.

That is where people say overrated when they hear comments like yours, Fenster. Sure he is slick and has handspeed, but he seldom sustains it to win a clean decision unless it is to stop chinny Khan or Fielding.

Hopefully Kovalev is not battle weary and lands that jab on the button and a few mean leads. Now that is emotion as I like Kovalev and think he has been stiffed GGG style himself.

Funk me, couldn't make it up. Thanks for proving my point.

Your post is utterly cringeworthy - "beaten easily by Mayweather who struggled with Maidana"......"outboxed by Khan".... "Cotto and Mosley don't count".... "Lara robbed".... It is biased childish stuff. Childish.

Seriously, dudes, it doesn't get more embarrassing than using a loss to Floyd as a put-down. Come on...

I have just watched Khan/Alvarez and seen a 2 division smaller guy just win 4 rounds on the trot. GGG tried that trick against Brook (less small) and didn't find himself in such a hole. An ATG does not lose as many rounds as Alvarez does. The ATG is a Calzaghe or a Jones or even early Mayweather type who wins effortlessly and at will.

Can you imagine a Calzaghe in against Canelo? There are levels in boxing and Canelo is not on that level of adaptability, intelligence, or skill. He would be fun against certain champions, but he isn't a great by any means. He's a drugged up Baldomir squeaking his way through losses and then these other fights like Fielding, Smith, Angulo, Kirkland.

It is trollish to even consider him an ATG. He has no decisive significant wins due to his strange stamina issues despite being in his 20's. He is OVERRATED.

[Fenster]

Canelo is already a great and currently P4P top five with just about every reputable historian/publication/"expert" and genuine boxing fan on the planet. Why? These people are judging him purely on his boxing career, with a neutral mind and without outside influences. He's beat/fought more top names than anyone apart from Manny. Fact.

However, Beanz is right, if you read forums like this you'd think he was a useless hype job. Why? Simply the fact most fans can't separate their emotion and bias when assessing fighters.

I swear you are trolling. Many have him with 5 losses on his resume and he has not beaten a top fighter convincingly. He is overrated because of those decisions. If he is top 5 then what does that make GGG who as good as he is is still in the words of Calzaghe somewhat 'one dimensional'. Canelo lost both times. Canelo doesn't stay in a division and prove himself, he doesn't rematch fights beyond GGG, and so there are many question marks. He was beaten easily by Mayweather who went night and day with Maidana. He was outboxed by Khan, by Lara, by GGG. He took on an ancient Mosley and Cotto. It is smoke and mirrors. There is no emotion in pointing these things out.

That is where people say overrated when they hear comments like yours, Fenster. Sure he is slick and has handspeed, but he seldom sustains it to win a clean decision unless it is to stop chinny Khan or Fielding.

Hopefully Kovalev is not battle weary and lands that jab on the button and a few mean leads. Now that is emotion as I like Kovalev and think he has been stiffed GGG style himself.

Funk me, couldn't make it up. Thanks for proving my point.

Your post is utterly cringeworthy - "beaten easily by Mayweather who struggled with Maidana"......"outboxed by Khan".... "Cotto and Mosley don't count".... "Lara robbed".... It is biased childish stuff. Childish.

Seriously, dudes, it doesn't get more embarrassing than using a loss to Floyd as a put-down. Come on...

I have just watched Khan/Alvarez and seen a 2 division smaller guy just win 4 rounds on the trot. GGG tried that trick against Brook (less small) and didn't find himself in such a hole. An ATG does not lose as many rounds as Alvarez does. The ATG is a Calzaghe or a Jones or even early Mayweather type who wins effortlessly and at will.

Can you imagine a Calzaghe in against Canelo? There are levels in boxing and Canelo is not on that level of adaptability, intelligence, or skill. He would be fun against certain champions, but he isn't a great by any means. He's a drugged up Baldomir squeaking his way through losses and then these other fights like Fielding, Smith, Angulo, Kirkland.

It is trollish to even consider him an ATG. He has no decisive significant wins due to his strange stamina issues despite being in his 20's. He is OVERRATED.

The very point I made is growing stronger and stronger with your every post.

[powerpuncher]

Canelo is already a great and currently P4P top five with just about every reputable historian/publication/"expert" and genuine boxing fan on the planet. Why? These people are judging him purely on his boxing career, with a neutral mind and without outside influences. He's beat/fought more top names than anyone apart from Manny. Fact.

However, Beanz is right, if you read forums like this you'd think he was a useless hype job. Why? Simply the fact most fans can't separate their emotion and bias when assessing fighters.

Which is exactly why he is overrated by the media. Every cash cow will be overrated because money talks. You are just like everybody else who gets caught up in official decisions. Can you imagine if some of his decisions went the other way officially? Even if nothing changed about the fights. He just lost. I guarantee that you wouldn’t be saying he was a top 5 p4p guy. It’s only because he officially won these fights that he is rated as highly as he is.

I guarantee you that if he weren’t a cash cow, he wouldn’t be rated anywhere near as high as he is now. As I said about GGG, Canelo hasn’t clearly beaten anybody good except for finally Jacobs. Before that, every decision against a good opponent was controversial. That doesn’t show me an elite fighter. That shows me a really good fighter.

[Fenster]

Canelo is already a great and currently P4P top five with just about every reputable historian/publication/"expert" and genuine boxing fan on the planet. Why? These people are judging him purely on his boxing career, with a neutral mind and without outside influences. He's beat/fought more top names than anyone apart from Manny. Fact.

However, Beanz is right, if you read forums like this you'd think he was a useless hype job. Why? Simply the fact most fans can't separate their emotion and bias when assessing fighters.

Which is exactly why he is overrated by the media. Every cash cow will be overrated because money talks. You are just like everybody else who gets caught up in official decisions. Can you imagine if some of his decisions went the other way officially? Even if nothing changed about the fights. He just lost. I guarantee that you wouldn’t be saying he was a top 5 p4p guy. It’s only because he officially won these fights that he is rated as highly as he is.

I guarantee you that if he weren’t a cash cow, he wouldn’t be rated anywhere near as high as he is now. As I said about GGG, Canelo hasn’t clearly beaten anybody good except for finally Jacobs. Before that, every decision against a good opponent was controversial. That doesn’t show me an elite fighter. That shows me a really good fighter.

If decisions went against him my opinion would hardly be much different, in fact he wouldn't be so hated, would he? The reason he rates so high is the standard of his opposition and the fact he's proved he can consistently compete with world-class fighters and all styles. I believe Golovkin beat him twice, however, my regard for Canelo GREW with each contest. Lara fight proved he can hold his own against a world-class slickster.

I'm not arrogant enough to disregard the opinions of those who differ.

The difference between a "W" and "L" alters the perception, however, there's a world of difference between an outright "robbery" and a fight which can go either way. The ONLY man to convincingly beat Canelo is Floyd (a legend). Any fan who thinks a loss to a legend can be used as a stick to beat is a clown and deserve no respect whatsoever.

You set the bar far to high (the same for Golovkin), I don't view boxing like you, anyone who proves they can beat world-class opposition and hang with great fighters is elite. The very fact you say "he hasn't clearly beat anyone good apart from Jacobs," says it all. Canelo's 2nd and 3rd tier opposition is packed with "champions," former "champions" and world-rated fighters. All different styles.

I don't need excuses or outside influences to form my opinion, it's not media hype or cash cow favouritism, his record speaks for itself.

[TitoFan]

I must say..... I've seen people contradict themselves from one post to the next. Hell..... I've even done it myself. But I don't believe I've EVER seen anyone contradict themselves from one sentence to the next.

I'm not arrogant enough to disregard the opinions of those who differ.

Any fan who thinks a loss to a legend can be used as a stick to beat is a clown and deserve no respect whatsoever.

Still..... it's good to know that one can be a clown and deserve no respect whatsoever, and yet not have their opinion disregarded.



Let's reexamine the point about the Floyd-Canelo humiliating shutout fight one more time, for the benefit of those who STILL haven't understood the point.


The fact that you GET a fight with Floyd Mayweather, in and of itself, should not be used as a measure of your greatness. If you clamored long and hard enough.... and were granted a fight with Floyd.... and got summarily and predictably shut out and embarrassed.... you haven't proven a DAMN THING, other than you should have never gotten that fight in the first place. It happened to Hatton..... it happened to Canelo. Both had fan bases that DEMANDED a fight vs. Floyd as proof of their stupid and ridiculous p4p claims. What happened? The inevitable. At least Hatton can say he landed a few on Floyd before getting knocked out. Canelo can't even claim as much. Most of his punches missed by FEET.

Who has earned shots at Mayweather and fought competitive fights? Maidana, Cotto, Judah, Mosley, DLH. Hell..... even the MEGA showdown with Pacquiao, although hugely disappointing, was LIGHT-YEARS more competitive than the Canelo fiasco. Floyd Mayweather showed exactly how HUGE the chasm was between himself and Canelo. All Canelo did was show up and flail around for 12 rounds. Could've been 112 rounds.... Canelo would STILL be trying to touch him. AGAIN I mention that other fiasco, where Canelo knocked out a man half his size (and a weak chin to boot), Amir Khan. I suppose you give him all sorts of credit for that one too. And yet WE'RE the clowns. Priceless.

Tell you what. I gave you and Beanie 8 good reasons why Canelo is overrated. How about you coming up with ONE legitimate reason as to why you think he's (cough) underrated. Or better yet........ MASSIVELY underrated... LOL.

Before you attempt that ill-fated task, I'll kindly put the definition of "underrated" on here so you and your buddy can understand why you're wrong.

"underrated - underestimate the extent, value, or importance of (someone or something)"



Now..... is anybody here, including myself, underestimating Canelo's value or importance to boxing?? I'd say hell no. How about that? In fact, we all here recognize Canelo's value and importance to boxing more than you know. That is precisely the fact. Some of us here are all too aware of Canelo's importance to boxing. Unfortunately the dog and pony show which Canelo's entire career since Day One has worked to perfection. From the early coddling, record-padding years... to his carefully groomed status as a star (remember.... stardom and greatness are not one and the same).

Underrated? I think not.

[Fenster]

I must say..... I've seen people contradict themselves from one post to the next. Hell..... I've even done it myself. But I don't believe I've EVER seen anyone contradict themselves from one sentence to the next.

I'm not arrogant enough to disregard the opinions of those who differ.

Any fan who thinks a loss to a legend can be used as a stick to beat is a clown and deserve no respect whatsoever.

Still..... it's good to know that one can be a clown and deserve no respect whatsoever, and yet not have their opinion disregarded.

There's zero contradiction.

1. The first quote refers to reputable historians/publications/"experts" and boxing fans who believe Canelo beat Golovkin. I didn't, but enough unbiased judges and rational minded fans did, therefore I respect their opinion.

2. The second quote needs zero explanation.

[powerpuncher]

Canelo is already a great and currently P4P top five with just about every reputable historian/publication/"expert" and genuine boxing fan on the planet. Why? These people are judging him purely on his boxing career, with a neutral mind and without outside influences. He's beat/fought more top names than anyone apart from Manny. Fact.

However, Beanz is right, if you read forums like this you'd think he was a useless hype job. Why? Simply the fact most fans can't separate their emotion and bias when assessing fighters.

Which is exactly why he is overrated by the media. Every cash cow will be overrated because money talks. You are just like everybody else who gets caught up in official decisions. Can you imagine if some of his decisions went the other way officially? Even if nothing changed about the fights. He just lost. I guarantee that you wouldn’t be saying he was a top 5 p4p guy. It’s only because he officially won these fights that he is rated as highly as he is.

I guarantee you that if he weren’t a cash cow, he wouldn’t be rated anywhere near as high as he is now. As I said about GGG, Canelo hasn’t clearly beaten anybody good except for finally Jacobs. Before that, every decision against a good opponent was controversial. That doesn’t show me an elite fighter. That shows me a really good fighter.

If decisions went against him my opinion would hardly be much different, in fact he wouldn't be so hated, would he? The reason he rates so high is the standard of his opposition and the fact he's proved he can consistently compete with world-class fighters and all styles. I believe Golovkin beat him twice, however, my regard for Canelo GREW with each contest. Lara fight proved he can hold his own against a world-class slickster.

I'm not arrogant enough to disregard the opinions of those who differ.

The difference between a "W" and "L" alters the perception, however, there's a world of difference between an outright "robbery" and a fight which can go either way. The ONLY man to convincingly beat Canelo is Floyd (a legend). Any fan who thinks a loss to a legend can be used as a stick to beat is a clown and deserve no respect whatsoever.

You set the bar far to high (the same for Golovkin), I don't view boxing like you, anyone who proves they can beat world-class opposition and hang with great fighters is elite. The very fact you say "he hasn't clearly beat anyone good apart from Jacobs," says it all. Canelo's 2nd and 3rd tier opposition is packed with "champions," former "champions" and world-rated fighters. All different styles.

I don't need excuses or outside influences to form my opinion, it's not media hype or cash cow favouritism, his record speaks for itself.

So elite to you just means any fighter who is good? I guess I will have to remember that next time when I’m using that term. What term should we use to distinguish between Mayweather and Canelo if not using the terms elite and great? Or do you make no distinction?

[Fenster]

Canelo is already a great and currently P4P top five with just about every reputable historian/publication/"expert" and genuine boxing fan on the planet. Why? These people are judging him purely on his boxing career, with a neutral mind and without outside influences. He's beat/fought more top names than anyone apart from Manny. Fact.

However, Beanz is right, if you read forums like this you'd think he was a useless hype job. Why? Simply the fact most fans can't separate their emotion and bias when assessing fighters.

Which is exactly why he is overrated by the media. Every cash cow will be overrated because money talks. You are just like everybody else who gets caught up in official decisions. Can you imagine if some of his decisions went the other way officially? Even if nothing changed about the fights. He just lost. I guarantee that you wouldn’t be saying he was a top 5 p4p guy. It’s only because he officially won these fights that he is rated as highly as he is.

I guarantee you that if he weren’t a cash cow, he wouldn’t be rated anywhere near as high as he is now. As I said about GGG, Canelo hasn’t clearly beaten anybody good except for finally Jacobs. Before that, every decision against a good opponent was controversial. That doesn’t show me an elite fighter. That shows me a really good fighter.

If decisions went against him my opinion would hardly be much different, in fact he wouldn't be so hated, would he? The reason he rates so high is the standard of his opposition and the fact he's proved he can consistently compete with world-class fighters and all styles. I believe Golovkin beat him twice, however, my regard for Canelo GREW with each contest. Lara fight proved he can hold his own against a world-class slickster.

I'm not arrogant enough to disregard the opinions of those who differ.

The difference between a "W" and "L" alters the perception, however, there's a world of difference between an outright "robbery" and a fight which can go either way. The ONLY man to convincingly beat Canelo is Floyd (a legend). Any fan who thinks a loss to a legend can be used as a stick to beat is a clown and deserve no respect whatsoever.

You set the bar far to high (the same for Golovkin), I don't view boxing like you, anyone who proves they can beat world-class opposition and hang with great fighters is elite. The very fact you say "he hasn't clearly beat anyone good apart from Jacobs," says it all. Canelo's 2nd and 3rd tier opposition is packed with "champions," former "champions" and world-rated fighters. All different styles.

I don't need excuses or outside influences to form my opinion, it's not media hype or cash cow favouritism, his record speaks for itself.

So elite to you just means any fighter who is good? I guess I will have to remember that next time when I’m using that term. What term should we use to distinguish between Mayweather and Canelo if not using the terms elite and great? Or do you make no distinction?

Semantics... I knew this was where we were heading, been through it a million times.

Floyd can sit alongside Leonard, Duran, Ali

Canelo will "currently" sit with Oscar, BHOP, Chavez

They're all great fighters but there's a distinctive difference between the first and second group.

[TitoFan]

Canelo is definitely overrated by the masses. He may be underrated but some more hardcore fans. @TitoFan just hates Mexican fighters 😁

Canelo is a really good fighter, but he is massively overrated because he isn’t a top five fighter but is generally a consensus top 3. He is in the bottom half of the top 10.

Bro... I like your short post the best. I'm going to post something now that may cause a small tremor in some places..... so I'd suggest you hold onto something firmly just in case.


Canelo definitely IS a "really good fighter", as you put it. (There. Any shaking? Some here may still be digging out from under the rubble. )



Ok.... now.... having said that, let me correct one more thing. Pleeeeeeease don't egg on those who actually think I hate all Mexican fighters

It's not true. I was a MASSIVE fan (I can't stop using that word now) of MAB, JMM, and Finito Lopez. All classy gentlemen who rose to the top of their sport without the Silver Spoon treatment, or being fed a procession of dead bodies to fatten their artificial records.


Now..... having said that.

I still cannot believe someone here, on a serious boxing forum, would have the unmitigated gall of saying that Canelo is underrated. Not just underrated, but MASSIVELY underrated.

My god..... I'm still reeling from that one. I'm serious..... it's the best comedic line in the history of the world. I'd definitely take Beanz on tour as long as he opened with that line. We'd make a fortune.



The new Face of Boxing is anything BUT underrated. I gave 8 solid reasons why if anything, he's overrated..... and stopped at 8 because I didn't want to be accused of hating all Mexican fighters.

After that, I haven't read one single word that will ever convince me to think otherwise. Those who feel he's underrated are definitely nuthugging to the Nth degree.

[Fatboxingfan]

Too late B, I was egged.