Sonny Liston - Foul play inside/outside the ring

[hardrock]

Muhammad Ali Rematch:
Liston was hit by what looked like a soft punch and considered KO.

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Liston

The ref given above makes it look official. This is what I think happened:

The Italian Mafia (who he worked for as a bone crusher) took illegal bets on the fight then fixed the fight to make more money.

"Many believed the fight was fixed. George Chuvalo, who sat in the fourth row at ringside and later fought Ali twice, said, "It was a phony." Floyd Patterson also said he did not believe the fight was on the level, as did former heavyweight champions Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney and Joe Louis" - Wikipedia

[hardrock]

Sonny Dies at 38:

"On December 30, 1970, former world heavyweight champion Charles "Sonny" Liston died in his home in Las Vegas. He was 38 years old. His wife Geraldine found him on January 5, already bloated and stiff. They did an autopsy and the official word from the coroner was that Liston died of natural causes, specifically, "lung congestion brought on by poor oxygen and nutrient blood supply to the heart muscles." " - See ref below

http://www.aussiebox.com.au/dettloff2.html

Drugs where found in his room (heroine)...

Some say he died of a, "hot shot," which means someone stuck a gun in his face and forced him to overdoze.

Others say he simply overdozed.

Needle marks were found on his arm.

What does the forum think of his rematch with ali and...

His death?

[Bookkeeper]

His lost against Ali was official, Sonny was not going to throw the fight, for what, he was not scared of the nation of Islam because he had the Mob backing him, and the Mob would not let him throw the fight because he was their money maker.

[hardrock]

I heard Sonny owed them money thats why he threw the match, also another that he bet on himself to lose in the rematch

[Bookkeeper]

I heard Sonny owed them money thats why he threw the match, also another that he bet on himself to lose in the rematch

hardrock that theory is so ridicoulous I doubt even you believe it, if you want to bet on yourself to lose do it against some old journeyman when the odds would be incredible, not against an undefeated up and coming prospect.

[amat]

He got up frrom that knockdown in the Ali fight. In all actuality it was just a punch that caught him off balance and he took a short rest on the mat and got back up. It was actually a blunder by Joe Walcott that cost Liston the bout. Walcott's count to Liston did not match the timekeepers. Liston beat Walcott's count but the time keeper said 10 seconds had gone by and the timekeeper told Walcott that and Walcott called off the fight. Now I don't think Liston had to many complaints because he was scared to death of Ali and obviously outclassed but still. It's not like he got hit by that punch and stayed down. He got up.

[bigragu]

He got up frrom that knockdown in the Ali fight. In all actuality it was just a punch that caught him off balance and he took a short rest on the mat and got back up. It was actually a blunder by Joe Walcott that cost Liston the bout. Walcott's count to Liston did not match the timekeepers. Liston beat Walcott's count but the time keeper said 10 seconds had gone by and the timekeeper told Walcott that and Walcott called off the fight. Now I don't think Liston had to many complaints because he was scared to death of Ali and obviously outclassed but still. It's not like he got hit by that punch and stayed down. He got up.

sounds fishy.....Walcott stops the fight when he knows Liston was listening to his count? Wouldn't Walcott see that the timekeeper doesn't matter in this situation? Somebody got PAID!

[BoxingGorilla]

Anyone seen the episode of Unsolved Mysteries about the death of Sonny Liston? Pretty intresting to see it talked about on there. It's on one of the DVD box sets.



Strange Legends. That's the DVD set.

[amat]

He got up frrom that knockdown in the Ali fight. In all actuality it was just a punch that caught him off balance and he took a short rest on the mat and got back up. It was actually a blunder by Joe Walcott that cost Liston the bout. Walcott's count to Liston did not match the timekeepers. Liston beat Walcott's count but the time keeper said 10 seconds had gone by and the timekeeper told Walcott that and Walcott called off the fight. Now I don't think Liston had to many complaints because he was scared to death of Ali and obviously outclassed but still. It's not like he got hit by that punch and stayed down. He got up.

sounds fishy.....Walcott stops the fight when he knows Liston was listening to his count? Wouldn't Walcott see that the timekeeper doesn't matter in this situation? Somebody got PAID!

Walcott was a lot better fighter then he was referee. Nobody got paid.

[amat]

Anyone seen the episode of Unsolved Mysteries about the death of Sonny Liston? Pretty intresting to see it talked about on there. It's on one of the DVD box sets.



Strange Legends. That's the DVD set.

I've heard about it I'm really interested in seeing it. I've read up quite a bit on the Liston, actually searched elibraries database on it just a couple weeks ago and read like 10 articles from all sorts of publications. But still don't know anymore about it then I did before.

[porkypara]

Liston's second loss to Ali reminds me of Buster Douglas's loss to Holyfield.

There was no fight in Liston that night,he was just there for an easy nights pay.

But dont forget he was on his feet when the fight was called off.

[atomic bull]

I've always said that fight was fixed, and a few people who I believe to be reliable sources in South Philly told me a few stories about Ali-Liston II that seemed real and made sense. There's no way a fighter with a chin like Liston got K.O. BY THAT SO CALLED "PHANTOM PUNCH". Joe Louis said it best" Yeah he got hit with a punch.....but it was like throwing corn flakes at a battle ship"!

[Lords Gym]

looks like a legit punch to me.. just a bad camera angle... you can see Listons head snap back, he got hit with something ! moving into a punch like that shit.. many a folk go to sandman land when hit while moving forward into shot when they mis, Liston was in full extension with his jab missed when Ali counters with a nice sharp Rt hand ! .. I don't see the controversy to be honest?

[youtube=425,350]zJRAFnYCVps[/youtube]

[p4pking]

looks like a legit punch to me.. just a bad camera angle... you can see Listons head snap back, he got hit with something ! moving into a punch like that S***.. many a folk go to sandman land when hit while moving forward into shot when they mis, Liston was in full extension with his jab missed when Ali counters with a nice sharp Rt hand ! .. I don't see the controversy to be honest?

[youtube=425,350]zJRAFnYCVps[/youtube]

I don't see any contreversy as far as that is was a legit shot that knocked Liston down involuntarily. I think maybe Sonny got up slowly, but either way he was beaten. It was not a fix he just knew he wasn't going to win. If he believed in his chances to win the fight he would have got up faster. I don't think the punch hurt him badly. What circumstances surrounded that noone here knows, my guess was that it was no more than Liston himself, that he already knew ALi could beat him and would.

[Lords Gym]

looks like a legit punch to me.. just a bad camera angle... you can see Listons head snap back, he got hit with something ! moving into a punch like that S***.. many a folk go to sandman land when hit while moving forward into shot when they mis, Liston was in full extension with his jab missed when Ali counters with a nice sharp Rt hand ! .. I don't see the controversy to be honest?

[youtube=425,350]zJRAFnYCVps[/youtube]

I don't see any contreversy as far as that is was a legit shot that knocked Liston down involuntarily. I think maybe Sonny got up slowly, but either way he was beaten. It was not a fix he just knew he wasn't going to win. If he believed in his chances to win the fight he would have got up faster. I don't think the punch hurt him badly. What circumstances surrounded that noone here knows, my guess was that it was no more than Liston himself, that he already knew ALi could beat him and would.

# 313 Agreed.. its not uncommon for the bad ass to fold, once he meets someone who can play to the same tune! Tyson is another good example.. when it comes back as good or better then you given , its a bit discouraging . Especially when you used to the other guy cashing out right away !