German based fighters?

[eagle]

What is it about these guys. Some of them seem to have talent but they dont chase the big names from the US, UK, etc. They win an alphabet title and seem happy to defend it at home. Why is this?
Some of the current guys im talking about include
Sergiy Dzinziruk WBO 154 champ. Has beat Daniel Santos.
Arthur Abraham IBF 160 champ.
Zsolt Erdei. WBO 175 champ.

Do they just make too much money too easy in Germany?

[ICB]

What is it about these guys. Some of them seem to have talent but they dont chase the big names from the US, UK, etc. They win an alphabet title and seem happy to defend it at home. Why is this?
Some of the current guys im talking about include
Sergiy Dzinziruk WBO 154 champ. Has beat Daniel Santos.
Arthur Abraham IBF 160 champ.
Zsolt Erdei. WBO 175 champ.

Do they just make too much money too easy in Germany?

They stay in Germany because its impossible for them to lose a decision

[Dark Lord Al]

yes german promoters learned there trade watching Frank von Warren lol

[eagle]

What is it about these guys. Some of them seem to have talent but they dont chase the big names from the US, UK, etc. They win an alphabet title and seem happy to defend it at home. Why is this?
Some of the current guys im talking about include
Sergiy Dzinziruk WBO 154 champ. Has beat Daniel Santos.
Arthur Abraham IBF 160 champ.
Zsolt Erdei. WBO 175 champ.

Do they just make too much money too easy in Germany?

They stay in Germany because its impossible for them to lose a decision

Yeah i get that, but some of them are good fighters, why dont many of them wanna test themselves against the best out there?

[Mikkel_K]

What is it about these guys. Some of them seem to have talent but they dont chase the big names from the US, UK, etc. They win an alphabet title and seem happy to defend it at home. Why is this?
Some of the current guys im talking about include
Sergiy Dzinziruk WBO 154 champ. Has beat Daniel Santos.
Arthur Abraham IBF 160 champ.
Zsolt Erdei. WBO 175 champ.

Do they just make too much money too easy in Germany?

It is - to a certain extent at least - a simple matter of risk-reward calculations.

Erdei probably gets more money for defending against George Blades in Germany, than he would be getting in the US, unless he was fighting a very select group of American fighters (all of whom would be a much bigger risk than Blades btw). That select group of American fighters on the other hand would probably get much bigger paychecks by fighting each other, than they would by fighting Erdei. And it's not like Erdei seems like an easier fight than, say, Tarver or Roy Jones Jr. Hell, if you were offered more money to fight William Joppy than Zsolt Erdei, would you choose the latter?

Also, the thing about a guy like Abraham is that he is arguably the biggest boxing name (outside HW at least) in a population of 90 mio. people. That is bound to bring a lot of money on the table for him... Now, if he went to the US would he even be considered a top50 p4p draw there?

As for robberies, they go both ways. Abraham wouldnt need to look any further than fellow German 160-champ Sturm to reconsider any potential trip to the US.

[JohnnyKickAss]

What is it about these guys. Some of them seem to have talent but they dont chase the big names from the US, UK, etc. They win an alphabet title and seem happy to defend it at home. Why is this?
Some of the current guys im talking about include
Sergiy Dzinziruk WBO 154 champ. Has beat Daniel Santos.
Arthur Abraham IBF 160 champ.
Zsolt Erdei. WBO 175 champ.

Do they just make too much money too easy in Germany?

It is - to a certain extent at least - a simple matter of risk-reward calculations.

Erdei probably gets more money for defending against George Blades in Germany, than he would be getting in the US, unless he was fighting a very select group of American fighters (all of whom would be a much bigger risk than Blades btw). That select group of American fighters on the other hand would probably get much bigger paychecks by fighting each other, than they would by fighting Erdei. And it's not like Erdei seems like an easier fight than, say, Tarver or Roy Jones Jr. Hell, if you were offered more money to fight William Joppy than Zsolt Erdei, would you choose the latter?

Also, the thing about a guy like Abraham is that he is arguably the biggest boxing name (outside HW at least) in a population of 90 mio. people. That is bound to bring a lot of money on the table for him... Now, if he went to the US would he even be considered a top50 p4p draw there?

As for robberies, they go both ways. Abraham wouldnt need to look any further than fellow German 160-champ Sturm to reconsider any potential trip to the US.

CC... Thats about what I wanted to say...

[eagle]

What is it about these guys. Some of them seem to have talent but they dont chase the big names from the US, UK, etc. They win an alphabet title and seem happy to defend it at home. Why is this?
Some of the current guys im talking about include
Sergiy Dzinziruk WBO 154 champ. Has beat Daniel Santos.
Arthur Abraham IBF 160 champ.
Zsolt Erdei. WBO 175 champ.

Do they just make too much money too easy in Germany?

It is - to a certain extent at least - a simple matter of risk-reward calculations.

Erdei probably gets more money for defending against George Blades in Germany, than he would be getting in the US, unless he was fighting a very select group of American fighters (all of whom would be a much bigger risk than Blades btw). That select group of American fighters on the other hand would probably get much bigger paychecks by fighting each other, than they would by fighting Erdei. And it's not like Erdei seems like an easier fight than, say, Tarver or Roy Jones Jr. Hell, if you were offered more money to fight William Joppy than Zsolt Erdei, would you choose the latter?

Also, the thing about a guy like Abraham is that he is arguably the biggest boxing name (outside HW at least) in a population of 90 mio. people. That is bound to bring a lot of money on the table for him... Now, if he went to the US would he even be considered a top50 p4p draw there?

As for robberies, they go both ways. Abraham wouldnt need to look any further than fellow German 160-champ Sturm to reconsider any potential trip to the US.

There are a few things i disagree with in that post. Sturm was robbed, but u cannot be serious if u think there are as many robberies in the US as there is in Germany.

Another point is that someone like Abrahm may not be a big name in the US now, but he only needs to win one fight, and all of a sudden he is a big name. He could challenge Jermain Taylor, or even Kelly Pavlik to a unification bout, and if he beat one of these guys he'd be able to make many lucrative fights. Erdei could fight Glen Johnson, or Jeff Lacy?
Dzinzruk could fight Ouma, or Spinks.


Ricky Hatton is doing that right now. He could have stayed at home and fought euro fighters and made millions, but he is taking a risk in fighting in the US to buikd himself a legacy, and potentially more money. So why not some of these top German based fighters.

[Mikkel_K]

There are a few things i disagree with in that post. Sturm was robbed, but u cannot be serious if u think there are as many robberies in the US as there is in Germany.

I don't. I was just saying that it happens. Tsypko against Lacy is another example imo. But I agree that this anecdotal evidence; I don't think badly of American judges, my point was merely that any German-based fighter fighting an American in America takes on extra risk. Especially if you compare it to the home advantage that - admittedly - have benefited some German-based fighters when it comes to a decision in Germany. Risk-reward...

(Also, since you mentioned Abraham against - of all people - Jermain Taylor, I think it is a relevant point )

Another point is that someone like Abrahm may not be a big name in the US now, but he only needs to win one fight, and all of a sudden he is a big name. He could challenge Jermain Taylor, or even Kelly Pavlik to a unification bout, and if he beat one of these guys he'd be able to make many lucrative fights. Erdei could fight Glen Johnson, or Jeff Lacy?
Dzinzruk could fight Ouma, or Spinks.


Ricky Hatton is doing that right now. He could have stayed at home and fought euro fighters and made millions, but he is taking a risk in fighting in the US to buikd himself a legacy, and potentially more money. So why not some of these top German based fighters.

For every Ricky Hatton there is a Joe Calzaghe. Sorry, just couldnt help thinking that.

I agree with your statements, and I would like them to do cross the pond and meet the best myself. It would be amazing if boxers thought more of legacy and less of money. But the rational answer to your original question remains: Why take on bigger risks for lesser money? And you point to Hatton to prove that if might not make lesser money. Well, kudos to Hatton for having confidence (and a fan-friendly style), but Dzindiruk aint gonna break the bank by beating Ouma, and he sure as hell wont do it by losing to Ouma. So it is a risky business, compared to staying in Germany. And perhaps it just requires more confidence and bigger talents than most boxers - German, UK, Thai, etc - have.

And I really hate to repeat myself, but Sturm tried the trick. It hardly worked. You mentioned Lacy, well then you've got Tsypko. In all honesty there are probably more of those examples than of the Ricky Hattons's.

[headson]

ive been hearing this for a liitle while that oktay urkal is gonna retire if he does congrats to him

[eagle]

There are a few things i disagree with in that post. Sturm was robbed, but u cannot be serious if u think there are as many robberies in the US as there is in Germany.

I don't. I was just saying that it happens. Tsypko against Lacy is another example imo. But I agree that this anecdotal evidence; I don't think badly of American judges, my point was merely that any German-based fighter fighting an American in America takes on extra risk. Especially if you compare it to the home advantage that - admittedly - have benefited some German-based fighters when it comes to a decision in Germany. Risk-reward...

(Also, since you mentioned Abraham against - of all people - Jermain Taylor, I think it is a relevant point )

Another point is that someone like Abrahm may not be a big name in the US now, but he only needs to win one fight, and all of a sudden he is a big name. He could challenge Jermain Taylor, or even Kelly Pavlik to a unification bout, and if he beat one of these guys he'd be able to make many lucrative fights. Erdei could fight Glen Johnson, or Jeff Lacy?
Dzinzruk could fight Ouma, or Spinks.


Ricky Hatton is doing that right now. He could have stayed at home and fought euro fighters and made millions, but he is taking a risk in fighting in the US to buikd himself a legacy, and potentially more money. So why not some of these top German based fighters.

For every Ricky Hatton there is a Joe Calzaghe. Sorry, just couldnt help thinking that.

I agree with your statements, and I would like them to do cross the pond and meet the best myself. It would be amazing if boxers thought more of legacy and less of money. But the rational answer to your original question remains: Why take on bigger risks for lesser money? And you point to Hatton to prove that if might not make lesser money. Well, kudos to Hatton for having confidence (and a fan-friendly style), but Dzindiruk aint gonna break the bank by beating Ouma, and he sure as hell wont do it by losing to Ouma. So it is a risky business, compared to staying in Germany. And perhaps it just requires more confidence and bigger talents than most boxers - German, UK, Thai, etc - have.

And I really hate to repeat myself, but Sturm tried the trick. It hardly worked. You mentioned Lacy, well then you've got Tsypko. In all honesty there are probably more of those examples than of the Ricky Hattons's.

Well thought out and written post. Good to debate wih someone who has good knowledge.
Do u think guys like Abraham could make an impact in the US, or are they not quite good enough?

[JohnnyKickAss]

Well thought out and written post. Good to debate wih someone who has good knowledge.
Do u think guys like Abraham could make an impact in the US, or are they not quite good enough?

Both Abraham and Sturm will most probably fight in the US next year,at least they showed
more than just a little interest...
Abraham will definitly have big impact in the US...as for Sturm, he already left his mark with the ODH
fight...

As for the other german based fighters I don't know...there was talk that Erdei might have fought
RJJ,but the negotiation failed cause of Jones ridiculous high purse demands...that is actually
a shame,cause IMO Erdei is right now the best light heavy out there and I'm fed up that he is
wasting his time with bums...bad management I guess...
Sergiy Dzinziruk is another boxer I would like to see more often,but he has such a low profile even
in Germany,that I doubt he will ever fight in the US...
With Stipe Drews its the same as with Dzinziruk...
From Ruslan Chagaev I haven't heard of any plans going to the US,but that could actually happen...
I mean he is a heavyweight champ there is no way around the US,even Valuev did his obligatory
fight in th US...
I've nearly forgotten Juan Carlos Gomez...if he will get a title shot he will fight everywhere for it...

Denis Inkin, Juergen Braehmer, Sebastian Sylvester, Wladimir Sidorenko will stay for now in Germany...

I'm pretty sure I've forgotten someone...

[eagle]

Well thought out and written post. Good to debate wih someone who has good knowledge.
Do u think guys like Abraham could make an impact in the US, or are they not quite good enough?

Both Abraham and Sturm will most probably fight in the US next year,at least they showed
more than just a little interest...
Abraham will definitly have big impact in the US...as for Sturm, he already left his mark with the ODH
fight...

As for the other german based fighters I don't know...there was talk that Erdei might have fought
RJJ,but the negotiation failed cause of Jones ridiculous high purse demands...that is actually
a shame,cause IMO Erdei is right now the best light heavy out there and I'm fed up that he is
wasting his time with bums...bad management I guess...
Sergiy Dzinziruk is another boxer I would like to see more often,but he has such a low profile even
in Germany,that I doubt he will ever fight in the US...
With Stipe Drews its the same as with Dzinziruk...
From Ruslan Chagaev I haven't heard of any plans going to the US,but that could actually happen...
I mean he is a heavyweight champ there is no way around the US,even Valuev did his obligatory
fight in th US...
I've nearly forgotten Juan Carlos Gomez...if he will get a title shot he will fight everywhere for it...

Denis Inkin, Juergen Braehmer, Sebastian Sylvester, Wladimir Sidorenko will stay for now in Germany...

I'm pretty sure I've forgotten someone...

Has Abraham gt the goods to hang with some of the monster 160 fighters coming out of the US at the moment like Taylor and Pavlik? He would give away a lot of size to these guys.

[JohnnyKickAss]

If anyone can beat Pavlik right now and that a big if...its Abraham...
He is a tough guy,who can give and take,while also being highly skilled...

[eagle]

If anyone can beat Pavlik right now and that a big if...its Abraham...
He is a tough guy,who can give and take,while also being highly skilled...

Even tho Miranda nearly beat him?

[JohnnyKickAss]

If anyone can beat Pavlik right now and that a big if...its Abraham...
He is a tough guy,who can give and take,while also being highly skilled...

Even tho Miranda nearly beat him?

Miranda wasn't able to knock him out although Abraham had to fight 8 rnds with a broken jaw...
And it was Miranda who was wobbled from time to time in those rnds...
I believe Abraham,when he said he would have knocked him out if it wouldn't have
been for the broken jaw...
Abraham is definitely a top middleweight...