Does anybody think Valuev won?

[porkypara]

Normaly when there are controvercial judges score cards there are some who think they got it wrong and some who think they got it right.

Does anybody think they got it right last night?

[Preme]

Normaly when there are controvercial judges score cards there are some who think they got it wrong and some who think they got it right.

Does anybody think they got it right last night?

Soon as i find the fight on rapidshare to download i'll let you know mush

[Kel]

You can't even begin to make a case for Valuev, he did nothing at all the whole fight.

Evander bounced around on his toes and Valuev had no answer for it...............he never needed an answer though because he already had the fight in the bag

[porkypara]

You can't even begin to make a case for Valuev, he did nothing at all the whole fight.

Evander bounced around on his toes and Valuev had no answer for it...............he never needed an answer though because he already had the fight in the bag

Yes even though EH did not do much I think it was his footwork that did not let Valuev get his shots off.

[liz]

there is no way in hell Valuev won. he didnt give off any shots, the only thing he did was get dizzy going round in circles following holyfield.

[porkypara]

Wonder what the punch stats were?

[J_C]

there is no way in hell Valuev won. he didnt give off any shots, the only thing he did was get dizzy going round in circles following holyfield.

This comment also echoes my points I was trying to illustrate. If we can agree that neither fighter threw anything of substance in a lot of the rounds, then how is Holyfield winning the rounds by allowing Valuev to follow him around the ring (albeit bloody slowly).

[J_C]

I have to admit I thought it was a very close fight, literally due to NOTHING happening. It was maybe the worst fight ive ever seen. I'll also admit I had it 115-114 Valuev.

I was really confused by the American commentary thinking Holyfield was winning every round more or less, so I trawled the forums and found almost everybody had a similar result, which has led to me registering to post.

Lets be honest - both fighters threw f all and landed f all. So imo a lot of the rounds came down to how you interpret movement and aggression and all of that. The poster above, Kel, says 'Evander bounced around on his toes and Valuev had no answer for it'....but could this not be interpreted as Evander just backing off and running away refusing to engage...and therefore being the fighter on the backfoot and defensive? If thats the case no one threw anything really, then that would be giving rounds to Valuev would it not?

Obviously Valuev was extremely static, but he did own the centre of the ring and was providing more forward movement and lamely pawing out with the jab some. Imo its no good backing off and circling being on your toes IF you dont throw something as well, it just looks like youre scared to engage in combat. Its a shame cos I wanted Holyfield to win and it was really there for the taking if he just could have gone in and out a bit more (eg more than once a round).

[porkypara]

I have to admit I thought it was a very close fight, literally due to NOTHING happening. It was maybe the worst fight ive ever seen. I'll also admit I had it 115-114 Valuev.

I was really confused by the American commentary thinking Holyfield was winning every round more or less, so I trawled the forums and found almost everybody had a similar result, which has led to me registering to post.

Lets be honest - both fighters threw f all and landed f all. So imo a lot of the rounds came down to how you interpret movement and aggression and all of that. The poster above, Kel, says 'Evander bounced around on his toes and Valuev had no answer for it'....but could this not be interpreted as Evander just backing off and running away refusing to engage...and therefore being the fighter on the backfoot and defensive? If thats the case no one threw anything really, then that would be giving rounds to Valuev would it not?

Obviously Valuev was extremely static, but he did own the centre of the ring and was providing more forward movement and lamely pawing out with the jab some. Imo its no good backing off and circling being on your toes IF you dont throw something as well, it just looks like youre scared to engage in combat. Its a shame cos I wanted Holyfield to win and it was really there for the taking if he just could have gone in and out a bit more (eg more than once a round).

To be honest I have been thinking if I let the commontators influnce my opinion.
I did not have a very good quality picture to watch it and might have missed bits.
I am hoping to watch it again.

I dont agree with what you posted but fair play to you for having the balls to go against the flow.

[DaxxKahn]

I have to admit I thought it was a very close fight, literally due to NOTHING happening. It was maybe the worst fight ive ever seen. I'll also admit I had it 115-114 Valuev.

I was really confused by the American commentary thinking Holyfield was winning every round more or less, so I trawled the forums and found almost everybody had a similar result, which has led to me registering to post.

Lets be honest - both fighters threw f all and landed f all. So imo a lot of the rounds came down to how you interpret movement and aggression and all of that. The poster above, Kel, says 'Evander bounced around on his toes and Valuev had no answer for it'....but could this not be interpreted as Evander just backing off and running away refusing to engage...and therefore being the fighter on the backfoot and defensive? If thats the case no one threw anything really, then that would be giving rounds to Valuev would it not?

Obviously Valuev was extremely static, but he did own the centre of the ring and was providing more forward movement and lamely pawing out with the jab some. Imo its no good backing off and circling being on your toes IF you dont throw something as well, it just looks like youre scared to engage in combat. Its a shame cos I wanted Holyfield to win and it was really there for the taking if he just could have gone in and out a bit more (eg more than once a round).

It is a judges job to know something about the fighters participating in a title fight....ANY JUDGE who does not know about Evander Holyfield should not be judging a fight in boxing let alone a HW title bout....

The Evander of old was a fighter who liked to bounce before he struck look at any of his prime fights and you would know that...There is a difference between bouncing and being inactive and running....

Not as if Valuev was following him in a stalking manner EG_ Miguel Cotto wallking an opponent down to unleash is stalking to attack....

Following a man around with no idea what to do or how to handle the movement is not....

Ruslan Chagaev beat Valuev by using constant movement and basically jabbing him...That fight Valuev had no idea on what to do either.....

Ruslan was just more active then Evander is all...

Valuev had some moments with his jab in the later rds as evander was tired but certainly not enough to warrent a victory,,,absolutly not enough for the scors read...

I mean c'mon man this was booed in Switzerland

[ross]

Evander bounced around on his toes

Hes not back on reality telly in a ball room dancing competition unfortunately, Valuev did outland him, Holyfield did bugger all other then skirt around the ring

[Slowmotion426]

Way past time for Holyfield to retire. Valuev won.

[KananKrus]

The judges actually was doing Holyfield a favor, IMO. Sending him a message to hang it up while he still can, and before getting seriously hurt.

[killersheep]

Evander bounced around on his toes

Hes not back on reality telly in a ball room dancing competition unfortunately, Valuev did outland him, Holyfield did bugger all other then skirt around the ring

According to the punch track stats Holyfield outlanded Valuev, Holyfield effectively countered Valuev and fought his fight all 12 rounds. Horrible fight, but Holyfield based on any scenario other that missed punches won this easily. Here is the criteria for scoring a round


clean punching. Knowing that Valuev landed 13% and indeed during the bout Valuev landed one meaningful shot the entire match. I would give a maximum 3 rounds to Valuev based on this criteria.

effective aggressiveness. Did not exist in this bout IMO I could not award this category to either combatant because of lack of activity.

ring generalship. Clearly Holyfield wins here, he fought his fight all 12 rounds, Valuev did nothing but clumsily pivot and throw wide shots on the occasion that he threw at all, Holyfield CHOSE the range, tempo and angles.

defense. Holyfield was landing when he threw and Valuev wasn't. Holyfield owns this too.
I don't understand how anyone could give this fight to Valuev..

[Bomp]

Just watched a couple rounds. Valuev is beyond a joke now. Chagaev needs to up the pace and try and KO him next time, so we're rid of him. He was a curiousity at first, and is a naturally tough guy, but should not be champ of the world.