Just want to clear something up on why Vegas takes 1st place for fight cards

[DaxxKahn]

The atmosphere of fighting in front of 80,000 fans must be amazing and Hatton will do it after the Manny Pac victory.

David Haye will get many thousands of fans at Stamford Bridge, 30,000+. Money can't buy the atmosphere and experience for a boxer.

Agreed, but like I said today it ios not so easy as just atmosphere....Same reason MSG is not the #1 place for mega fights anymore....

[Fenster]

As Daxx says, fights in Vegas make sense - but the other reason the fight couldn't happen at Wembley is because without HBO's backing the fight isn't happening.

Primetime HBO PPV would mean the fight starting at 4am UK time.

Wembley has an 11pm deadline for events. So the fight would have to be primetime UK, which is no good for HBO, so no fight.

Just imagine the hassle of dealing with 80,000 drunks in the early hours of the morning .. that's if it's even possible to get those numbers then

[Mark TKO]

I fully understand why there is more money involved by staging it at the strip - and know full well why it's going to happen there.

It's like footballers earning 150k a week here - easy to understand why but it doesn't make it right that's all.

Would love to be at this one but no way am I making the trip again and spending several days in lost wages.

will make do with a Khan v Barrera ticket instead - £83 and just 48 miles away

[Trainer Monkey]

Still sucks for all those fans that would like to go and see a huge event though. Travelling half the way around the world isnt an option for most people and those fans will only be able to get their hands on a fraction of the tickets. Demand will well outsrip supply. Im sure the UK fans dont want to just get lumbered with the occasional style Lazcano fight, which really serves as little more than a pocket builder for Hatton. Certainly doesnt mean anything as an actual fight, does it?

There is no reason why it couldnt be held in the UK at 3am which would mean decent HBO US time and a lot of happy lager louts in a stadium. I understand the motivations for holding it in Vegas, but I do think certain fights dont need to be there. This is one of them. But as the powers that be have decreed it, we will just have to go with it.

It would be nice if more fights happened at places like Lincoln Financial, or Tropicana Field in the states,but there's just better money at the Casino's. And on top of that,the Casino's are way more willing to take a loss leader on the fight itself,because they know they'll make it back at the tables,and the betting.
If you book a stadium the way they used to,you better be sure you can fill the place. The stadium charges a flat rate,and your out that as a promoter,out of pocket. So you'd best be damned sure you have a fight that will fill the place.
Its led to a practice through most of the south,where part of a fighters pay is tickets to the event,you sell the tickets yourself,and you get a percentage. Why alot of mid to low level fights are kind of s-y is because of that,the promoter has to consider how many friends a guy has.
If you run an established hall like the Blue Horizon,its not as much of an issue,you can risk putting somebody on,because people will be there anyway. But if your booking a huge stadium,you better be sure

Yeah, I wasnt disagreeing with Daxx at all. Its quite clear why a vast majority of significant fights end up in the casino venues. It would just be nice if on occasion those that supported a fighter got to share more in those BIG fight experiences. Of course, anybody can order it and watch it on the tube. But these types of Hatton fights are more like events than just fights.

Let me put it this way,its risk reward
Its a shame to put it in these terms,but its the way it is.
Just to buy a good breakdown ring is $1200
Now you have to get the insurance bonds
Now youve got to get the hall
Not to mention paying the fighters themselves,and their travel expenses,and their trainers.
Crowd control
You can just hear it going kaching kaching kaching cant you?
Now if he's the type of person that just happens to have that money floating around,do you think the odds are better that he's thinking about his bottom line,or his fellow man being able to see a good fight?
And even then,even if you are a promoter who just wants to see things fair and square,your competing against the guys who can just whip out a wad of bills.
I run everything fair and clean,and Ive got to hustle double time to do it. None of this improves as you move up the food chain. If anything it gets worse.
So you go for the easy money at a Casino rather then roll the dice on the Core States Center,unless your absolutely positive your going to pack it.
Hell alot of the Indian Casinos have their own ABC commissioners now.

[Drago]

at the end of the day its the real fans who cant afford to travel to vegas that suffer well i cant afford to go again for a long long long time

[JazMerkin]

at the end of the day its the real fans who cant afford to travel to vegas that suffer well i cant afford to go again for a long long long time

Yeah, I'm going out there this time more as a boxing fan than a Hatton fan, although I will be backing him, what are most of the guys who go out there supporting him like? Are they actually boxing fans? Or am I gonna wanna punch all of them as they declare that Hatton would've beat Mayweather easily if not for Joe Cortez tripping him up as he went for PBF in that corner?

[Drago]

at the end of the day its the real fans who cant afford to travel to vegas that suffer well i cant afford to go again for a long long long time

Yeah, I'm going out there this time more as a boxing fan than a Hatton fan, although I will be backing him, what are most of the guys who go out there supporting him like? Are they actually boxing fans? Or am I gonna wanna punch all of them as they declare that Hatton would've beat Mayweather easily if not for Joe Cortez tripping him up as he went for PBF in that corner?

nice 2 hear u making the journey, sorry i meant couldnt afford vegas again not hatton as saw calzaghe last time & the crowd was really good, probably 50/50 as to how much they knew abt boxing.

many of the fans that follow hatton do not follow boxing

[Conrad]

I can't imagine anyone would be stupid enough to think it's just the gate receipts that generates the income

When The Hatton/Pac fight was first rumoured Ray Hatton said they were trying to put together a package with Wembley to rival Vegas, but in the end they couldn't.

I'm sure Pac would like to fight in the Phillipines and I'm sure Hatton would like to fight at Wembley. But the truth is they'd both rather fight in Vegas because that's where they get paid the most.

[Drago]

at the end of the day its the real fans who cant afford to travel to vegas that suffer well i cant afford to go again for a long long long time

Yeah, I'm going out there this time more as a boxing fan than a Hatton fan, although I will be backing him, what are most of the guys who go out there supporting him like? Are they actually boxing fans? Or am I gonna wanna punch all of them as they declare that Hatton would've beat Mayweather easily if not for Joe Cortez tripping him up as he went for PBF in that corner?

nice 2 hear u making the journey, sorry i meant couldnt afford vegas again not hatton as saw calzaghe last time & the crowd was really good, probably 50/50 as to how much they knew abt boxing.

many of the fans that follow hatton do not follow boxing

sorry i meant to say that many of the fans that follw hatton that i have met know fk all abt boxing

[Kirkland Laing]

There are about 1000 guys who the casinos target on a regular basis. These are guys who can be guaranteed to drop at least a million dollars at the tables in a trip to Vegas (interestingly, about half of them are of Chinese origin, those guys like to gamble.) To get these guys to come to Vegas, and to one casino in particular, they're given free private jets to and from, free suites, free everything. But most importantly, a free ticket or three for the fight. The only thing they pay for the whole trip is their chips. If you do the maths you can see that if you can attract a few percent of these guys for a fight then the casino giving the promoter a site fee of five plus millions (in the case of Hatton/Manny) on top of the ticket sales is enough to make even Wembley look unattractive as an alternative. Like I said at the time they were negotiating the fight, they're not fighting in Vegas because they can make more money fighting at Wembley.

You can see why Tyson was so popular in Vegas, a lot of those guys would be queuing up for a fully comped trip to watch him. He was an absolute goldmine for the casinos in the 80s/90s.

And under the very top level there's a market of thousands/maybe 10000 guys who are worth a free ticket/room because they'll drop many thousands in a weekend that the various casinos have lists of. But it's the real high rollers, the guaranteed million a trip guys that make the site fees worth paying for the casinos.

[Kev]

Ok this is probably a dumb question but what does the casino's making so much money from a fight being held have to do with the boxers? I mean do the boxers and promoters get a cut of the profits the casino's make?

It sounds like it's the casino's themselves that benefit from the fights being held there but what do the fighters, promoters etc care about that? Do they get free venues, percentage of money and other incentives to hold the fights there?

Also just out of curiosity these mega rich gamblers dropping a million in one night, do they only hit the casino's on the night of a big fight or do they turn up for all kinds of events?

Presumably if they are throwing away a million dollars a night they are betting on a whole lot more than just the outcome of the fight, seems like they must be at the tables and in private back rooms playing poker etc, why is the fight even that relevent to them?

Not saying I disagree I'm sure you are right just wondering how the casino's getting rich benefits boxing. I guess they must pay them handsomely for the trade?

[DaxxKahn]

Ok this is probably a dumb question but what does the casino's making so much money from a fight being held have to do with the boxers? I mean do the boxers and promoters get a cut of the profits the casino's make?

It sounds like it's the casino's themselves that benefit from the fights being held there but what do the fighters, promoters etc care about that? Do they get free venues, percentage of money and other incentives to hold the fights there?

Also just out of curiosity these mega rich gamblers dropping a million in one night, do they only hit the casino's on the night of a big fight or do they turn up for all kinds of events?

Presumably if they are throwing away a million dollars a night they are betting on a whole lot more than just the outcome of the fight, seems like they must be at the tables and in private back rooms playing poker etc, why is the fight even that relevent to them?

Not saying I disagree I'm sure you are right just wondering how the casino's getting rich benefits boxing. I guess they must pay them handsomely for the trade?

Well mate it is like I said in the original post...The casinos will help flip the bill doing promotions for the fight saving millions of dollars...They will also have all the formals held there...Weigh in's Day of press confrences...

They will help with the broadcast cost...Use their workers to set up for the card...Clean up after the event in the area where the fight was held...(Yes arenas will charge to have the place cleaned for the mess left by spectators)....They will supply security, hotel rooms to thos involved (Fighters, trainers, promoters etc) all that adds up to millions that the promoter would have to pay otherwise...The insurance to hold the event is covered, The casino will ..The casino gladly pays it because they majke the money back 6 fold by gambling revenue generated....There are 100 things that the casino will do that takes expenses off the fighters and promoters pockets...Hence they make more money by having to spend less...

They do not actually put money in the fighters pockets but they sure as hell make sure nothing comes out of it either...They even set up PR appearences at times that the fighrters will make money off of...They will help with training quarters while the fighters are there for the time prior to th fight....

The list is a mile long

[Kirkland Laing]

Ok this is probably a dumb question but what does the casino's making so much money from a fight being held have to do with the boxers? I mean do the boxers and promoters get a cut of the profits the casino's make?

It sounds like it's the casino's themselves that benefit from the fights being held there but what do the fighters, promoters etc care about that? Do they get free venues, percentage of money and other incentives to hold the fights there?

Also just out of curiosity these mega rich gamblers dropping a million in one night, do they only hit the casino's on the night of a big fight or do they turn up for all kinds of events?

Presumably if they are throwing away a million dollars a night they are betting on a whole lot more than just the outcome of the fight, seems like they must be at the tables and in private back rooms playing poker etc, why is the fight even that relevent to them?

Not saying I disagree I'm sure you are right just wondering how the casino's getting rich benefits boxing. I guess they must pay them handsomely for the trade?

Casinos fight amongst themselves year-round to attract these guys. Over the years the one thing that's been shown to attract them more than any other is a big fight. If you have a few dozen guys who are guaranteed to spend a million plus who want to watch a fight then a site fee of a few million leaves you with a significant profit.

[Dizaster]

yes great post Daxx.. I completely understand why most of the big fights are in Vegas..

Although I like the idea of fighters and promoters occasionally giving up a little bit of $ or whatever to hold fights in different places like the UK.. Especially when they have the opportunity to fight in Vegas but choose not to.
It puts back into more of the boxing community who don't get a chance to go to Vegas.. And infact, maybe more fights should be spread around a bit, but I don't begrudge anyone involved in the game to choose the option that is easiest for them, offers the most benefits to the fighters, and makes them the most money... Hopefully some of that money goes back into boxing in some positive form or another though

[DaxxKahn]

yes great post Daxx.. I completely understand why most of the big fights are in Vegas..

Although I like the idea of fighters and promoters occasionally giving up a little bit of $ or whatever to hold fights in different places like the UK.. Especially when they have the opportunity to fight in Vegas but choose not to.
It puts back into more of the boxing community who don't get a chance to go to Vegas.. And infact, maybe more fights should be spread around a bit, but I don't begrudge anyone involved in the game to choose the option that is easiest for them, offers the most benefits to the fighters, and makes them the most money... Hopefully some of that money goes back into boxing in some positive form or another though

It would be nice for sure...The thread was more or less for those who insist that the fights are in Vegas due to favortisim or because one fighter will only fight there..

I wish they would spread out more myself...Even local boxing with up and comers has died out...I used to be able to catch 2 shows a month...Granted the guys on the card were ones you would not know but to me boxing is boxing and it is good just to go to the fights...The atmosphere is great...