Help Returning the Jab Quickly

[God.in.my.corner]

I'm trying to find ways to make my jab return to guard faster. I have good speed and snap extending the jab- since I can land it pretty well and I get compliments from coaches and sparring partners- but I get hit with right hands way too often. I just seem to get timed more often than I should.

I thought this was because of lead hand positioning or a stance issue. But there is an experienced guy who I spar with that nails me often, and I just asked him. "Your jab returns too slow and it you fire it from your cheek and it returns to your shoulder" was his reply.

So I was going to try resistance bands and just tons of shadowboxing. I guess with the bands my goal would be to use the added resistance to give extra speed returning the jab to guard. Is this right? Is there any exercises or 'mental cues' that would help (like the one about snatching a quarter from someones hand)?? It always seems like I try so hard to snap it out there quick, I forget about the punch once its extended...

Thanks in advance

[Andre]

There'll be better answers than mine in regards the physical exercises to solve the problem. But I was thinking double up the jab.

If you think about its return you wont gain much from it, but if you think about the next move outwards like ba/bang..its automatically returned by its own accord;you haven't trained it back,with an interrupting thought.

Also not used often: but you do realize that an extended jab will block a hook or round swing over the top of it, if you just turn to face the point of contact slightly. The jab left out for too long is useless; unless you use it while its out there to stop what you know or have felt coming and that is the only way it can work for you while its out there.

Its a disruption, one you have to bring into your sparring lightly and fast.

Theres alot you can do from there, you can just turn back in and fire that lead arm straight back or do other stuff.

Experiment with your footwork as you do it, see where it leads.

Of course you're opening up your rear side to them, but you could even move bodily with a shuffle right through their hook and fire your rear arm as you go, its brings a new position, one they rarely see. Its a bit like dealing with two arms at once with two arms except you end up in top position cause your opening them up and you are firing a shot through the path of their other arm cause now you are square to them but on the move still. Depending on their reaction you can even pull the right leg around behind your left leg and throw a left straight into their new path. You can even do the reverse if they react and try to head out the other way, but then you've switched stance to cut them off and its a right cross that follows them.

Worth playing around with for those times when your not over worried by someones power or if its just one of those great in a phone box type of fight and you need to change the pattern of it.

[greynotsoold]

When you punch, all force goes out, away from you, and you punch through your target. If you start trying to pull your jab back- that is, utilize force in bringing it to you- you'll not be landing your jab, as it will be short, and you'll be even easier to hit with right hands.
Do you turn your shoulders at all when you jab? If you are throwing a proper jab- with your shoulder, it should come back. What I'm saying is this: turn your shoulders until the front shoulder reaches the center-line of your body and make that drive the extension of your arm. When your shoulder recoils your arm comes back on the same track it went out on, and you also have a more substantial jab.
This other guy saying that your jab comes back low leads me to believe that you are "throwing" your jab, all with your arm and of course it will come back low. Also, if you are starting with your jab hand at eye level you are starting with your hands to high. The jab should leave your body on a slightly inclining trajectory; this gets your shoulder in front of your chin so you don't get hit on it. If you start your jab at eye level, I'll give you odds that you are jabbing down. Look at tape of guys with good jabs and you'll not find one that started his jab from that high.

[Andre]

When you punch, all force goes out, away from you, and you punch through your target. If you start trying to pull your jab back- that is, utilize force in bringing it to you- you'll not be landing your jab, as it will be short, and you'll be even easier to hit with right hands.
Do you turn your shoulders at all when you jab? If you are throwing a proper jab- with your shoulder, it should come back. What I'm saying is this: turn your shoulders until the front shoulder reaches the center-line of your body and make that drive the extension of your arm. When your shoulder recoils your arm comes back on the same track it went out on, and you also have a more substantial jab.
This other guy saying that your jab comes back low leads me to believe that you are "throwing" your jab, all with your arm and of course it will come back low. Also, if you are starting with your jab hand at eye level you are starting with your hands to high. The jab should leave your body on a slightly inclining trajectory; this gets your shoulder in front of your chin so you don't get hit on it. If you start your jab at eye level, I'll give you odds that you are jabbing down. Look at tape of guys with good jabs and you'll not find one that started his jab from that high.

See exactly what I was i saying .



Seriously, go with this advice here

[HerbM]

You have probably heard me go on (and on) about relaxation, so it is possible that if you are "trying" to pull it back quick you are putting tension in your (opposing) muscles.

This could actually be both slowing down the return and (maybe even more important) slowing down the punch.

You really, REALLY need to have your biceps etc turned OFF during the punch, and the Triceps etc turned OFF during return -- sometimes that is actually easier to do by various other methods like "flicking" it out there.

The really tricky part is timing the "switch" -- I firmly believe the time signal for the switch should be the (beginning of) IMPACT on the target. If you practice this, then by the time you get the biceps firing (milliseconds) the target has absorbed the full power of the punch, and the target rather than your muscles do the STOPPING part of the retraction.

Parodoxically it may not be about how fast you "move" but how cleanly (and fast) you make the switch.

Also note, that if you "miss" then your ELBOW JOINT has to do this instead -- and that is not something you want to happen at high volume (I don't like to practice FAST shadow boxing this way simply because either my joint does the work or my biceps must fire without hitting anything -- i.e., no signal like in a real punch delivered to an opponent or a bag.)
(You will also hit harder & faster as well as tire less quickly.)

Also make very sure you aren't "reaching" or "leaning" to deliver it either.

Use this if it helps you -- I might however be full of baloney. Of course, I am known for hitting really hard with very little effort. <grin>

--
HerbM

[nikola_ganchev]

I think that your problem is not how fast you retrack your hand, but your positioning. If you are in bad position and throw the jab and i can sence the jab coming i am going to hit you every single time with my cross! And most likely i will land the punch when your jab is still going forward There are 2 things that you can work on. Improuve your stance and perception of positioning and don't telegraf the punch. Ask your self this questions. Are you jabing across? Is your head on the line of fire of his right hand? Are you squared? If the answer is yes to all of them than bringing the hand faster back wont improuve your situaion.

[WayneFlint]

You have probably heard me go on (and on) about relaxation, so it is possible that if you are "trying" to pull it back quick you are putting tension in your (opposing) muscles.

This could actually be both slowing down the return and (maybe even more important) slowing down the punch.

You really, REALLY need to have your biceps etc turned OFF during the punch, and the Triceps etc turned OFF during return -- sometimes that is actually easier to do by various other methods like "flicking" it out there.

The really tricky part is timing the "switch" -- I firmly believe the time signal for the switch should be the (beginning of) IMPACT on the target. If you practice this, then by the time you get the biceps firing (milliseconds) the target has absorbed the full power of the punch, and the target rather than your muscles do the STOPPING part of the retraction.

Parodoxically it may not be about how fast you "move" but how cleanly (and fast) you make the switch.

Also note, that if you "miss" then your ELBOW JOINT has to do this instead -- and that is not something you want to happen at high volume (I don't like to practice FAST shadow boxing this way simply because either my joint does the work or my biceps must fire without hitting anything -- i.e., no signal like in a real punch delivered to an opponent or a bag.)
(You will also hit harder & faster as well as tire less quickly.)

Also make very sure you aren't "reaching" or "leaning" to deliver it either.

Use this if it helps you -- I might however be full of baloney. Of course, I am known for hitting really hard with very little effort. <grin>

--
HerbM

Good post, i have to disagree with the heavy bag part though, hitting a heavybag is never like hitting an opponent, you cant always be sure when your going to hit an opponent but you can be with a heavybag, half of the time you are shadow boxing while sparring a good fighter because you will miss a lot, i think its better to learn to throw shots shadow boxing with good commitment and balance to enable variation in movement and a quick return to guard through movements, then when you know you can commit properly to a shot, miss and still not be giving anything away, your ready to apply the technique to a bag which is very sensitive in my opinion it can either be good for you or draw lots of bad habits out and ruin the effectiveness of your training sessions.

Like herb says is important when your trying to locate the trigger muscles for a shot the whole idea is to relax every other muscle but the triggers to stop the antagonists resisting against the movements, once youre getting your head around this and applying it correctly to your boxing, its then a good idea to start stretching, if your not flexing muscles that are stopping you then thats good your gonna be quick, but a slight resistance through lack of flexibility in the muscles is a given and will certainly slow you down, so then you need to get rid of that resistance too and that is when stretching comes into its own and will rapidly improve speed and technique.

Andre also makes a very good point in trying to avoid having the thoughts going through your mind slowing you down as your trying to overthink the movements and correct the flaws as you move, your jab will start at your chin so muscle memory dictates that a double jab will have the first jab return to the chin quickly to fire off the second jab resulting in a sort of sneaky tactic to get this movement wired into muscle memory to memorize the new jab, however the second jab may still return shy of the chin, if so then take note of where your elbow returns to after firing the jab, and where it needs to return to in order to enable the hand to return by the chin, the problem may lie there.

I have a feeling its a mixture of the latter and what Greysoold mentioned about your shoulders, the jab is an arm punch so the source of the problem is most likely to be the arm but not always, it could also be due to reaching/on the front foot too much aswell as problems in the arm.

[Andre]

You really, REALLY need to have your biceps etc turned OFF during the punch, and the Triceps etc turned OFF during return -- sometimes that is actually easier to do by various other methods like "flicking" it out there.

Yeah there is a lot to it Herb.

Even a difference to be felt with a more 45% toward vertical fist and a horizontal fist or a mix of both with a twist, in regards to those muscles switching, also difference can be felt between a rising shot compared to a thrusting controlling shot, even the intention behind the thought behind the shot has a little bit to do with it all too.

Maybe to practice for a while having no intention at all and just think 'whip like' and from a touch low and fully relaxed to start with, could get the feel for speed better. Copy Roy Jones rising snap, think like your arms a relaxed but manic snake that strikes and gets back to its original position instantly.some dudes have the noise in their heads seems to even help like the crack of a whip. Like Mr Lees watah! The whole move forward and back and is done within the explosive expansion of air. It all helps.
Those blokes snappy jabs looked like lighting as well, because they could time the opponent and bodily move in with both feet adding to the whole momentum and power. Mosley too would slide in with his jab sometimes.