Champions chasing Challengers

[TitoFan]

Normally challengers chase champions but Sergio is doing his hardest to get the fight with JCC Jnr, giving up the super belt and almost begging for the match.

Any other examples in history that did this?

Interesting. I can't think of any right off hand, but I'm sure it's happened.

You basically need few ingredients for this to happen. You have to have a high-profile challenger or highly-ranked contender who gets more press than the champion. You have to have a sometimes unappreciated champion, who is miffed by the lack of attention that is rather given to the challenger. You have to have a champion that KNOWS he can kick the challenger's ass if only given the chance. AND... you have to have a challenger who's being protected at all costs by some higher up authority. Be it your own famous daddy, or the president of the boxing entity who is also in on the conspiracy to protect the challenger.

With Sergio vs. Baby Chavez it's: check... check... check... a-a-a-a-a-n-d..... CHECK!!

not so sure about your assessment of the two fighters...

martinez 20th fight was against a guy with a record of 6-2-3. he won on Points in a 8 round bout.
chavez jr's 20th fight was against a guy with a record of 21-6-2. he won by 4th round KO.

martinez 30th fight was against an opponent with a record of 6-0-1. martinez won UD/8.
chavez jr's 30th fight was against an opponent with a record of 21-7-3 he won UD/10

martinez 40th fight was against a guy with a 1-7-2 record. he won KO5/8.
chavez junior's 40th opponent was 23-0-0. he won by UD/10

not sure why everyone complains about chavez junior's padded record when its clearly martinez who's consistently faced bunk opposition.

Also: martinez has fought 6 more fights than chavez jr... so if you were to erase the last 6 fights from martinez record; you'd find his most recent fight to have been a Draw against cintron. if you examine his record before that you'd have to agree that he's fought a bunch of nobodies.

Pretty good job handpicking "milestone" fights to show an "advantage" toward JCC Jr.




To be honest, Sergio's record IS littered with bums with losing records. No disputing that. A lot of those were in his native Argentina, where he obviously fattened his record also. HOWEVER..... there's no defending Baby Chavez.

Regardless of the numbers, Sergio has fought the likes of: Paul Williams, Kelly Pavlik, Kermit Cintron, Antonio Margarito. Who the hell has "The Coddled One" fought? John Duddy, Manfredo Jr., Rubio. And his only TKO as of late came against the "mighty" Manfredo Jr., he of the feather fists.

Give me a frigging break here. Chavez has never fought a dangerous opponent. It's all part of the master plan by his overbearing daddy, and the scumbag Jose Sulaiman, in an effort to get him to the 100-victory milestone, just like his daddy.

Who, by the way, did his OWN fattening of his OWN record. In the past I posted some pretty telling statistics where "Daddy" fought his first 40+ fights against fighters with a cummulative LOSING RECORD! That's pretty damn hard to do. You gotta fight a lot of 0-10 bums for that to happen. Yeah... he later became a great fighter and fought great opposition. But fact of the matter is he reached 100 wins because the first 45 or so fights were against worthless bums, and ALL of them in Mexico.

So you can't blame the guy for wanting his coddled son to follow in his carefully chosen footsteps. The chances of Junior facing a live and dangerous opponent any time soon are about as great as the chances of my winning the lottery..... and I don't even play the lottery.

[ruthless rocco]

Normally challengers chase champions but Sergio is doing his hardest to get the fight with JCC Jnr, giving up the super belt and almost begging for the match.

Any other examples in history that did this?

Interesting. I can't think of any right off hand, but I'm sure it's happened.

You basically need few ingredients for this to happen. You have to have a high-profile challenger or highly-ranked contender who gets more press than the champion. You have to have a sometimes unappreciated champion, who is miffed by the lack of attention that is rather given to the challenger. You have to have a champion that KNOWS he can kick the challenger's ass if only given the chance. AND... you have to have a challenger who's being protected at all costs by some higher up authority. Be it your own famous daddy, or the president of the boxing entity who is also in on the conspiracy to protect the challenger.

With Sergio vs. Baby Chavez it's: check... check... check... a-a-a-a-a-n-d..... CHECK!!

not so sure about your assessment of the two fighters...

martinez 20th fight was against a guy with a record of 6-2-3. he won on Points in a 8 round bout.
chavez jr's 20th fight was against a guy with a record of 21-6-2. he won by 4th round KO.

martinez 30th fight was against an opponent with a record of 6-0-1. martinez won UD/8.
chavez jr's 30th fight was against an opponent with a record of 21-7-3 he won UD/10

martinez 40th fight was against a guy with a 1-7-2 record. he won KO5/8.
chavez junior's 40th opponent was 23-0-0. he won by UD/10

not sure why everyone complains about chavez junior's padded record when its clearly martinez who's consistently faced bunk opposition.

Also: martinez has fought 6 more fights than chavez jr... so if you were to erase the last 6 fights from martinez record; you'd find his most recent fight to have been a Draw against cintron. if you examine his record before that you'd have to agree that he's fought a bunch of nobodies.

Pretty good job handpicking "milestone" fights to show an "advantage" toward JCC Jr.




To be honest, Sergio's record IS littered with bums with losing records. No disputing that. A lot of those were in his native Argentina, where he obviously fattened his record also. HOWEVER..... there's no defending Baby Chavez.

Regardless of the numbers, Sergio has fought the likes of: Paul Williams, Kelly Pavlik, Kermit Cintron, Antonio Margarito. Who the hell has "The Coddled One" fought? John Duddy, Manfredo Jr., Rubio. And his only TKO as of late came against the "mighty" Manfredo Jr., he of the feather fists.

Give me a frigging break here. Chavez has never fought a dangerous opponent. It's all part of the master plan by his overbearing daddy, and the scumbag Jose Sulaiman, in an effort to get him to the 100-victory milestone, just like his daddy.

Who, by the way, did his OWN fattening of his OWN record. In the past I posted some pretty telling statistics where "Daddy" fought his first 40+ fights against fighters with a cummulative LOSING RECORD! That's pretty damn hard to do. You gotta fight a lot of 0-10 bums for that to happen. Yeah... he later became a great fighter and fought great opposition. But fact of the matter is he reached 100 wins because the first 45 or so fights were against worthless bums, and ALL of them in Mexico.

So you can't blame the guy for wanting his coddled son to follow in his carefully chosen footsteps. The chances of Junior facing a live and dangerous opponent any time soon are about as great as the chances of my winning the lottery..... and I don't even play the lottery.

what you typed there is all very nice, but i hadn't reviewed the performance of the two fighters before writing the post. which is what you seem to suggest in the bold part of your text above.

i figured a fighter would want a showcase fight for his 20th, 30th and 40th fights. it just so happens that martinez chose to fight fighters with poor or losing records, whereas chavez jr. chose to face guys with solid winning records...

i addressed the issue of martinez having 6 more fights than chavez jr... if you were to ignore martinez last 6 fights you'd see he hadn't faced any credible opposition to that point either.

also, i certainly didn't have a say in "handpicking" the fighters that the two champions chose to fight. altho, i'm flattered that you'd attribute me such "pull". these are simple observations that suggest a trend.

[Rantcatrat]

I don't have any good examples off the top of my head. I'm sure they're out there though. I know Andre Ward has somewhat campaigned for a fight with Sergio Martinez at 168 for his belts, but it's not to the same extent.

The truth is Martinez is chasing Chavez Jr. because he is the biggest pay day available, not because he is the biggest challenge available. Martinez earns more money taking a 40/60 split with Chavez Jr. than he earns taking a champion's split against Macklin. A win over Chavez Jr. also may gain Martinez entrance into the Mexican boxing fanbase, possibly boxing's strongest ethnic fanbase, which creates dividends in future fights.

Bottom line: a Chavez Jr. fight is all about money. It's the same reason Sergio called out Miguel Cotto and Floyd Mayweather. Around that weight class, the biggest potential money-making fights are Chavez Jr., Canelo, Floyd, Cotto and Manny. The only other fighter around that weight class that has good earning potential is Lucian Bute in Canada, and maybe Carl Froch in England. Therefore, a likely scenario I can see happening is Sergio Martinez beats Chavez Jr. in the fall and then moves up in weight in his final hurrah against the winner of Bute or Froch, where he probably loses, although I give him a decent shot against Froch.

[TitoFan]

Normally challengers chase champions but Sergio is doing his hardest to get the fight with JCC Jnr, giving up the super belt and almost begging for the match.

Any other examples in history that did this?

Interesting. I can't think of any right off hand, but I'm sure it's happened.

You basically need few ingredients for this to happen. You have to have a high-profile challenger or highly-ranked contender who gets more press than the champion. You have to have a sometimes unappreciated champion, who is miffed by the lack of attention that is rather given to the challenger. You have to have a champion that KNOWS he can kick the challenger's ass if only given the chance. AND... you have to have a challenger who's being protected at all costs by some higher up authority. Be it your own famous daddy, or the president of the boxing entity who is also in on the conspiracy to protect the challenger.

With Sergio vs. Baby Chavez it's: check... check... check... a-a-a-a-a-n-d..... CHECK!!

not so sure about your assessment of the two fighters...

martinez 20th fight was against a guy with a record of 6-2-3. he won on Points in a 8 round bout.
chavez jr's 20th fight was against a guy with a record of 21-6-2. he won by 4th round KO.

martinez 30th fight was against an opponent with a record of 6-0-1. martinez won UD/8.
chavez jr's 30th fight was against an opponent with a record of 21-7-3 he won UD/10

martinez 40th fight was against a guy with a 1-7-2 record. he won KO5/8.
chavez junior's 40th opponent was 23-0-0. he won by UD/10

not sure why everyone complains about chavez junior's padded record when its clearly martinez who's consistently faced bunk opposition.

Also: martinez has fought 6 more fights than chavez jr... so if you were to erase the last 6 fights from martinez record; you'd find his most recent fight to have been a Draw against cintron. if you examine his record before that you'd have to agree that he's fought a bunch of nobodies.

Pretty good job handpicking "milestone" fights to show an "advantage" toward JCC Jr.




To be honest, Sergio's record IS littered with bums with losing records. No disputing that. A lot of those were in his native Argentina, where he obviously fattened his record also. HOWEVER..... there's no defending Baby Chavez.

Regardless of the numbers, Sergio has fought the likes of: Paul Williams, Kelly Pavlik, Kermit Cintron, Antonio Margarito. Who the hell has "The Coddled One" fought? John Duddy, Manfredo Jr., Rubio. And his only TKO as of late came against the "mighty" Manfredo Jr., he of the feather fists.

Give me a frigging break here. Chavez has never fought a dangerous opponent. It's all part of the master plan by his overbearing daddy, and the scumbag Jose Sulaiman, in an effort to get him to the 100-victory milestone, just like his daddy.

Who, by the way, did his OWN fattening of his OWN record. In the past I posted some pretty telling statistics where "Daddy" fought his first 40+ fights against fighters with a cummulative LOSING RECORD! That's pretty damn hard to do. You gotta fight a lot of 0-10 bums for that to happen. Yeah... he later became a great fighter and fought great opposition. But fact of the matter is he reached 100 wins because the first 45 or so fights were against worthless bums, and ALL of them in Mexico.

So you can't blame the guy for wanting his coddled son to follow in his carefully chosen footsteps. The chances of Junior facing a live and dangerous opponent any time soon are about as great as the chances of my winning the lottery..... and I don't even play the lottery.

what you typed there is all very nice, but i hadn't reviewed the performance of the two fighters before writing the post. which is what you seem to suggest in the bold part of your text above.

i figured a fighter would want a showcase fight for his 20th, 30th and 40th fights. it just so happens that martinez chose to fight fighters with poor or losing records, whereas chavez jr. chose to face guys with solid winning records...

i addressed the issue of martinez having 6 more fights than chavez jr... if you were to ignore martinez last 6 fights you'd see he hadn't faced any credible opposition to that point either.

also, i certainly didn't have a say in "handpicking" the fighters that the two champions chose to fight. altho, i'm flattered that you'd attribute me such "pull". these are simple observations that suggest a trend.

One slight problem with your statement above (which I've bolded in red). Kermit Cintron was 7 fights ago.... and Margarito was way back in 2000. And frankly, either would've tore Junior a new asshole.

And while you may be right about these "milestone fights", (which when you think about it has little significance in the grand scheme of things), nothing in your post disputes the fact that Junior has never fought a dangerous opponent. And this has been strictly by design. Baby Chavez..... following in his father's footsteps.

Following daddy's script, though, it's about time Junior starts facing opposition worthy of his bloated 40+ and "0" record. Only difference is, however, Junior is a manufactured product..... and he'll NEVER get anywhere near 100 wins. NEVER.

[ruthless rocco]

hey don't get all worked up about it...

you seem to have a real problem with the idea of this guy getting 100 wins.
whats it to you? relax. have a good bowel movement...

we'll see how each fighter's careers go.

[TitoFan]

hey don't get all worked up about it...

you seem to have a real problem with the idea of this guy getting 100 wins.
whats it to you? relax. have a good bowel movement...

we'll see how each fighter's careers go.

Worked up? You don't know me very well. Just pointing out the fact that Baby's record is a farce, is all. Nothing wrong with setting the record straight, right?

[ruthless rocco]

hey don't get all worked up about it...

you seem to have a real problem with the idea of this guy getting 100 wins.
whats it to you? relax. have a good bowel movement...

we'll see how each fighter's careers go.

Worked up? You don't know me very well. Just pointing out the fact that Baby's record is a farce, is all. Nothing wrong with setting the record straight, right?

but that's common knowledge...

[TitoFan]

hey don't get all worked up about it...

you seem to have a real problem with the idea of this guy getting 100 wins.
whats it to you? relax. have a good bowel movement...

we'll see how each fighter's careers go.

Worked up? You don't know me very well. Just pointing out the fact that Baby's record is a farce, is all. Nothing wrong with setting the record straight, right?

but that's common knowledge...

Ok, so we agree.

[ruthless rocco]

i doubt we agree...

i think martinez is massively overrated; whereas i find chavez jr to be well managed.

[TitoFan]

i doubt we agree...

i think martinez is massively overrated; whereas i find chavez jr to be well managed.

Oh ok.... so we disagree.

I don't care to defend Martinez. He needs a couple of career-defining fights to establish his legacy, if there's going to be any.

As for Baby Chavez, if by "well managed" you mean protected from any fights that might endanger his precious little "0" in the loss column, to the point of ducking credible challengers. Then yeah..... the coddled little baby is well managed.

[ruthless rocco]

i doubt we agree...

i think martinez is massively overrated; whereas i find chavez jr to be well managed.

Oh ok.... so we disagree.

I don't care to defend Martinez. He needs a couple of career-defining fights to establish his legacy, if there's going to be any.

As for Baby Chavez, if by "well managed" you mean protected from any fights that might endanger his precious little "0" in the loss column, to the point of ducking credible challengers. Then yeah..... the coddled little baby is well managed.

by well managed i mean he's made the most money with the least risk while upholding a brand name started by his dad.

that's the third element of the sweet science...the one people don't like to talk about: money.

the art of hitting and not being hit; while making as much money as possible.

[Rantcatrat]

i doubt we agree...

i think martinez is massively overrated; whereas i find chavez jr to be well managed.

where do you rank Martinez p4p?

who should he face to merit his worth?

[TitoFan]

i doubt we agree...

i think martinez is massively overrated; whereas i find chavez jr to be well managed.

Oh ok.... so we disagree.

I don't care to defend Martinez. He needs a couple of career-defining fights to establish his legacy, if there's going to be any.

As for Baby Chavez, if by "well managed" you mean protected from any fights that might endanger his precious little "0" in the loss column, to the point of ducking credible challengers. Then yeah..... the coddled little baby is well managed.

by well managed i mean he's made the most money with the least risk while upholding a brand name started by his dad.

that's the third element of the sweet science...the one people don't like to talk about: money.

the art of hitting and not being hit; while making as much money as possible.

I can now see why we will always disagree.

I see boxing as a sport. A sport I've loved for a very long time. Long enough to have seen the best fighting the best. Long enough to have seen warriors in the ring, wanting to fight the best opponents available... and not giving a rat's ass about "brand names" (give me a frigging break), maintaining fake undefeated records, or wanting to bloat their bullshit records with bums.

You, on the other hand, admire "well managed" fighters with all the attributes you very well mentioned in your post. Nothing wrong with that...... to each his own.

We'll never agree.

[ruthless rocco]

i doubt we agree...

i think martinez is massively overrated; whereas i find chavez jr to be well managed.

where do you rank Martinez p4p?

who should he face to merit his worth?

martinez doesn't belong in the top 10 p4p. he's not that good. knocking out b level domestic fighters, does make you p4p credible.

who should he face to merit his worth? that's the problem, he will lose when he faces someone who's a legitimate contender. he just happens to be in a weak division...but that doesn't prove his superiority. it just means he's top dog on top of a pile of shit.

[ruthless rocco]

i doubt we agree...

i think martinez is massively overrated; whereas i find chavez jr to be well managed.

Oh ok.... so we disagree.

I don't care to defend Martinez. He needs a couple of career-defining fights to establish his legacy, if there's going to be any.

As for Baby Chavez, if by "well managed" you mean protected from any fights that might endanger his precious little "0" in the loss column, to the point of ducking credible challengers. Then yeah..... the coddled little baby is well managed.

by well managed i mean he's made the most money with the least risk while upholding a brand name started by his dad.

that's the third element of the sweet science...the one people don't like to talk about: money.

the art of hitting and not being hit; while making as much money as possible.

I can now see why we will always disagree.

I see boxing as a sport. A sport I've loved for a very long time. Long enough to have seen the best fighting the best. Long enough to have seen warriors in the ring, wanting to fight the best opponents available... and not giving a rat's ass about "brand names" (give me a frigging break), maintaining fake undefeated records, or wanting to bloat their bullshit records with bums.

You, on the other hand, admire "well managed" fighters with all the attributes you very well mentioned in your post. Nothing wrong with that...... to each his own.

We'll never agree.

i don't admire chavez jr. i'm just suggesting that you're naive if you think boxing is just about a fighter's glory. its about money and you're a fool if you believe otherwise.

as for people fighting bums... martinez fought a guy with a 1-7-2 record for his 40th fight! his 42nd fight was against 3-35-2! his 43rd fight was 14-4! his 44th fight: 14-10! his 45th 16-6! who has the padded record full of bums? martinez fought 10 times between 2005 and 2007... only 3 of those fighters had winning records.

besides, i'm suprised you're trying to take the moral high road here titofan... your namesake is a cheater who was caught red handed.