world war two

[mrbig1]

74 years ago today Germany invaded the USSR. One of the bloodiest wars of all time.

[Gandalf]

The same is said of the atomic bombs in Japan. That they saved millions of lives.

Yes, another tragedy but it was calculated an invasion of Japan would cost a million lives. The Japanese had prepared the population to fight. It would have been a bloodbath. More civilians died in the incendiary bombing of German than in Hiroshima and Nagasaki but again, Japan continued to refuse to surrender. If you want to read about some true horror read about what the Japanese did to Nanking China when they invaded. I think it was 300,000 civilians the Japanese butchered in a week. They were terrible creatures.

Butchered is the right word for that. No one says nothing about that. This is because a Jewish life is more important than a Chinese life.

@walrus what is your take on the above statement?

[walrus]

The same is said of the atomic bombs in Japan. That they saved millions of lives.

Yes, another tragedy but it was calculated an invasion of Japan would cost a million lives. The Japanese had prepared the population to fight. It would have been a bloodbath. More civilians died in the incendiary bombing of German than in Hiroshima and Nagasaki but again, Japan continued to refuse to surrender. If you want to read about some true horror read about what the Japanese did to Nanking China when they invaded. I think it was 300,000 civilians the Japanese butchered in a week. They were terrible creatures.

Butchered is the right word for that. No one says nothing about that. This is because a Jewish life is more important than a Chinese life.

@walrus what is your take on the above statement?

Well @Gandalf, I would need the op to explain himself a bit more. I don't know if he is trying to make a point I am missing with his statement. But the Japanese committed the same atrocities against the Chinese that the Germans did to the Jews. Mengle like medical experiments and all. It is referred to as the hidden Holocaust.

[erics44]

74 years ago today Germany invaded the USSR. One of the bloodiest wars of all time.

one step too far

[Gandalf]

The same is said of the atomic bombs in Japan. That they saved millions of lives.

Yes, another tragedy but it was calculated an invasion of Japan would cost a million lives. The Japanese had prepared the population to fight. It would have been a bloodbath. More civilians died in the incendiary bombing of German than in Hiroshima and Nagasaki but again, Japan continued to refuse to surrender. If you want to read about some true horror read about what the Japanese did to Nanking China when they invaded. I think it was 300,000 civilians the Japanese butchered in a week. They were terrible creatures.

Butchered is the right word for that. No one says nothing about that. This is because a Jewish life is more important than a Chinese life.

@walrus what is your take on the above statement?

Well @Gandalf , I would need the op to explain himself a bit more. I don't know if he is trying to make a point I am missing with his statement. But the Japanese committed the same atrocities against the Chinese that the Germans did to the Jews. Mengle like medical experiments and all. It is referred to as the hidden Holocaust.

Just a joke comment as I know you are a big fan of Israel and have a Chinese wife. Nothing funny about genocide though and that is all I will say on the topic.

[walrus]

The same is said of the atomic bombs in Japan. That they saved millions of lives.

Yes, another tragedy but it was calculated an invasion of Japan would cost a million lives. The Japanese had prepared the population to fight. It would have been a bloodbath. More civilians died in the incendiary bombing of German than in Hiroshima and Nagasaki but again, Japan continued to refuse to surrender. If you want to read about some true horror read about what the Japanese did to Nanking China when they invaded. I think it was 300,000 civilians the Japanese butchered in a week. They were terrible creatures.

Butchered is the right word for that. No one says nothing about that. This is because a Jewish life is more important than a Chinese life.

@walrus what is your take on the above statement?

Well @Gandalf , I would need the op to explain himself a bit more. I don't know if he is trying to make a point I am missing with his statement. But the Japanese committed the same atrocities against the Chinese that the Germans did to the Jews. Mengle like medical experiments and all. It is referred to as the hidden Holocaust.

Just a joke comment as I know you are a big fan of Israel and have a Chinese wife. Nothing funny about genocide though and that is all I will say on the topic.

@Gandalf, I was thinking the gentlemen may have been referring to media views on Chinese v Jewish people at the time. The genocide against the Chinese got very little attention during and after the war. Perhaps a large part of that is it took place outside of the European theatre but then again Mao worked very hard to keep China a closed nation for many years after the war. It is estimated Chairman Mao killed more people than Hitler and Stalin combined. I've also read Mao refused to brush his teeth and would only have sex with young virgins.

[X]

Americans claim victory at Waterloo re-enactment after showing up towards the end

[walrus]

Americans claim victory at Waterloo re-enactment after showing up towards the end

Yeah, we showed up at the end, France, England and Poland had everything well under control. I'm sure you guys would have got it together and pulled D day off yourselves.

[Gandalf]

The same is said of the atomic bombs in Japan. That they saved millions of lives.

Yes, another tragedy but it was calculated an invasion of Japan would cost a million lives. The Japanese had prepared the population to fight. It would have been a bloodbath. More civilians died in the incendiary bombing of German than in Hiroshima and Nagasaki but again, Japan continued to refuse to surrender. If you want to read about some true horror read about what the Japanese did to Nanking China when they invaded. I think it was 300,000 civilians the Japanese butchered in a week. They were terrible creatures.

Butchered is the right word for that. No one says nothing about that. This is because a Jewish life is more important than a Chinese life.

@walrus what is your take on the above statement?

Well @Gandalf , I would need the op to explain himself a bit more. I don't know if he is trying to make a point I am missing with his statement. But the Japanese committed the same atrocities against the Chinese that the Germans did to the Jews. Mengle like medical experiments and all. It is referred to as the hidden Holocaust.

Just a joke comment as I know you are a big fan of Israel and have a Chinese wife. Nothing funny about genocide though and that is all I will say on the topic.

@Gandalf , I was thinking the gentlemen may have been referring to media views on Chinese v Jewish people at the time. The genocide against the Chinese got very little attention during and after the war. Perhaps a large part of that is it took place outside of the European theatre but then again Mao worked very hard to keep China a closed nation for many years after the war. It is estimated Chairman Mao killed more people than Hitler and Stalin combined. I've also read Mao refused to brush his teeth and would only have sex with young virgins.

I have studied contemporary Chinese history and for sure Mao was a rather nasty piece of work. I put him up there with your Hitler's, Churchill's, Stalin's etc. Some of Communist China's policies were just insane.

[walrus]

Wtf, I'm reading about Nazi looting. They took everything from the jews including their hair. The hair was actually used to make submarine boots. Hitler became a multi millionaire not only from Germany but from Jewish loot.the US and others did a decent job getting back a lot of treasure, certainly not all. They estimate some US soldiers sent home priceless antiques which some will never be seen again. Some weren't recovered by the allies. The US put a country wide tour of all the looted art which pissed off a lot of Europeans, especially air of Jews whom owned the art but after the tour the art was returned to its owners.I think some is still here in the US as different families are fighting over. The Russians returned very little. I guess they consider it war booty and compensation. Damn I know we already know a lot of this stuff but when you read how deep and twisted it got. @Gandalf , I just don't see how you can include Churchill in with Stalin and Hitler. I'm interested to see how you think Winston was as bad as these two monsters. Are FDR and Truman on the same list as well.

[Gandalf]

@walrus

I don't really draw any distinctions. I think if you have carried out a form of genocide then you have to be included in the list. Hitler had to be resisted, of course he did, but that doesn't excuse Churchill for the Indian genocide. I would also add Blair to the list for Iraq. It was really the same thing Hitler was doing to other nations. It is just we are not meant to point out when we do it and we are urged to forget quickly. History is about making winners look good, just like economics is about protecting the rich. Clever words to keep us bleating.

[walrus]

@walrus

I don't really draw any distinctions. I think if you have carried out a form of genocide then you have to be included in the list. Hitler had to be resisted, of course he did, but that doesn't excuse Churchill for the Indian genocide. I would also add Blair to the list for Iraq. It was really the same thing Hitler was doing to other nations. It is just we are not meant to point out when we do it and we are urged to forget quickly. History is about making winners look good, just like economics is about protecting the rich. Clever words to keep us bleating.

Alright Miles, I disagree strongly that the invasion of Iraq is the same as what Hitler did. But I won't argue the fact, you are entitled to your opinion. I'm sorry but I don't understand Churchill and the Indians. Not a part of British history I'm familiar with. I'll have to look into it. I don't like what Winston did in the middle east, I think a lot of the boundaries the UK set are a big part of the problems we see now, of course we are looking back, I'm sure, or at least hope, the UK was acting with good intent after the fall of the Ottomans. Yes, history is written by the winners but there are plenty of ways to get at the truth these days. We have a lot of books and documentaries that go in-depth on most historical subjects. A lot of what we hear aren't cover ups so to speak but words handed down that have become common belief. I guess I operate different than you, in the forefront of my mind I keep the words I could be wrong, it keeps me more able to listen to others and able to learn. The more I know, the less I understand all the things I thought I knew. I have respect for People like you that think they are always right and dismiss other points of view, it must give you a feeling of power and security. I've never once heard you say in a debate here that the other party maybe right or at least say you would investigate further what they say. I did that for a while but to many times I found I was missing good stuff others were saying cause I was too bust being rightly wrong. God Bless you Miles, oh sorry, there is no God.

Ps, I'm not being sarcastic, I admire the I'm always right people, especially when it's so clear they are wrong.

[Gandalf]

I don't think anyone is truly right in a debate though, Walrus. You have your criteria and you tend to stay with that. If you think a bit of genocide is hunky dory, then Churchill might well be a hero, but I just don't see it that way. Far from thinking I am always right, I actually take the time to consider alternative points of view. It is the history winners that think they are always right. I just tend to challenge that kind of thinking as I know academia (particularly history and economics) is full of self satisfied people who exist to perpetuate existing systems. Not always so, but you will have a harder time having a successful career if you do not pay your dues and say the right things.

Not looking to have an argument with you as it is going off topic and I agreed not to do that. I just wanted to answer your question. On the topic of admitting wrong, I have apologised and changed my mind on countless topics. In fact, I probably do it more than most.

[walrus]

I don't think anyone is truly right in a debate though, Walrus. You have your criteria and you tend to stay with that. If you think a bit of genocide byis hunky dory, then Churchill might well be a hero, but I just don't see it that way. Far from thinking I am always right, I actually take the time to consider alternative points of view. It is the history winners that think they are always right. I just tend to challenge that kind of thinking as I know academia (particularly history and economics) is full of self satisfied people who exist to perpetuate existing systems. Not always so, but you will have a harder time having a successful career if you do not pay your dues and say the right things.

Not looking to have an argument with you as it is going off topic and I agreed not to do that. I just wanted to answer your question. On the topic of admitting wrong, I have apologised and changed my mind on countless topics. In fact, I probably do it more than most.

Can you point me to some info about this genocide if the Indians Churchill commuted, I know nothing about it

[Gandalf]

I don't like using the BBC, but for a general overview of Churchill controversies you can check out this article.

The 10 greatest controversies of Winston Churchill's career - BBC News

Google has all sorts of links to info about the Indian genocide. It wasn't just Churchill as the British frequently imposed genocide upon the Indians. The usual story of occupation for profit and starve the local population if so desired. Despicable man.

Winston Churchill to blame for Bengal famine: Book - The Times of India

The Bengal Famine: How the British engineered the worst genocide in human history for profit