Thread: Forgotten fighter-trainer pairings

I was thinking after the Hatton-Pacquiao fight that the pairing of Ricky and Floyd Mayweather Sr. would be (in hindsight) a very strange part of boxing history and I got to thinking more about some wierd pairings of fighters and trainers, some that worked out and some that didn't.

So list trainer-fighter pairings that were a little strange.

Wladimir Klitschko - Tommy Brooks, Freddie Roach

Lamon Brewster - Buddy McGirt

George Foreman - Angelo Dundee

Mike Tyson - Tommy Brooks, Freddie Roach, Aaron Snowell, Panama Lewis


Anyone else have any fighter-trainer pairings that you think are a little strange?

I was talking with Ron Lipton before about Charlie Goldman, and he told me something interesting about Charlie. Charlie Goldman was training Rubin Carter for a while but they had a falling out. The reason for it? It was over music of all things. Rubin liked to listen to music while he trained, but Charlie could not stand for it, so they went their separate ways.

By the way I also recall Angelo Dundee training Foreman, and in the corner on one occasion he told Foreman, "keep bopping in there". Foreman was either beyond most corner advice, or perhaps he should have asked, "and I'm paying you for!?" Things must have been fine since Dundee was with Foreman in his fights against Moorer and Holyfield.

I remember Jack Dempsey was in the Corner of Max Baer against Joe Louis, although I'm not sure if he took on the role of trainer as well.

Perhaps we ought to include assistant trainer-fighter pairings as well. Sandy Saddler help worked with Foreman for his bout with Ali. Who was his main trainer for that fight? Archie Moore? I don't think that Gil Clancy arrived on the scene until some years later.

He wasn't a cornerman, but the Billy Blanks-James Toney pairing was the funniest pairing ever.

Originally Posted by Lyle

I was thinking after the Hatton-Pacquiao fight that the pairing of Ricky and Floyd Mayweather Sr. would be (in hindsight) a very strange part of boxing history and I got to thinking more about some wierd pairings of fighters and trainers, some that worked out and some that didn't.

So list trainer-fighter pairings that were a little strange.

Wladimir Klitschko - Tommy Brooks, Freddie Roach

Lamon Brewster - Buddy McGirt

George Foreman - Angelo Dundee

Mike Tyson - Tommy Brooks, Freddie Roach, Aaron Snowell, Panama Lewis


Anyone else have any fighter-trainer pairings that you think are a little strange?

Tyson and Fenech (against Mcbride)

Hell I forgot about Fenech! Tyson never seemed to find a decent trainer after Rooney which I guess is why people kept saying he should go back to him.

Evander Holyfield went through a TON of trainers too

Freddie Roach and Steve Collins convincing Chris Eubank that Collins had been hypnotized and would see Eubank's head 5 times bigger than it was, so it would be unmissable!!

Originally Posted by snakey

Originally Posted by Lyle

I was thinking after the Hatton-Pacquiao fight that the pairing of Ricky and Floyd Mayweather Sr. would be (in hindsight) a very strange part of boxing history and I got to thinking more about some wierd pairings of fighters and trainers, some that worked out and some that didn't.

So list trainer-fighter pairings that were a little strange.

Wladimir Klitschko - Tommy Brooks, Freddie Roach

Lamon Brewster - Buddy McGirt

George Foreman - Angelo Dundee

Mike Tyson - Tommy Brooks, Freddie Roach, Aaron Snowell, Panama Lewis


Anyone else have any fighter-trainer pairings that you think are a little strange?

Tyson and Fenech (against Mcbride)

not sure about that because Fenech and Tyson were both pressure fighters

Well the idea of the thread was to list fighter-trainer pairings that people look back on and go "When the hell did that happen"....when people think Tyson they immediately think Cus D'Mato and Kevin Rooney.

Originally Posted by Lyle

Well the idea of the thread was to list fighter-trainer pairings that people look back on and go "When the hell did that happen"....when people think Tyson they immediately think Cus D'Mato and Kevin Rooney.

Yeah for sure! The first thing I think of when someone says "Prime Tyson" is Mike bobbing and weaving his way in, avoiding all punches coming his way and landing his own dynamite. When Don King made him sack Rooney he almost immediately lost that and there went his invincibility.

The thing with Tyson was he was finely tuned and the few men that were around him from the beggining (Rooney, D'Amato and Atlas) moulded him into the fighting machine he was in the mid to late eighties, they knew him inside out both physically and mentally and when he no longer had these people around him, in hindsight it was always going to be downhill from there on!

I don't buy that he was ever "invincible" but he definently was a more complete heavyweight than Floyd Patterson. Floyd had great handspeed, pretty solid power, but no chin, and no size on him. Tyson was bigger, stronger, and he could take punishment if he had to.

Originally Posted by Lyle

I don't buy that he was ever "invincible" but he definently was a more complete heavyweight than Floyd Patterson. Floyd had great handspeed, pretty solid power, but no chin, and no size on him. Tyson was bigger, stronger, and he could take punishment if he had to.

Me neither! I was using the word invincible as a figure of speech. It was a label that was branded round for Tyson a lot in those days but looking back now he always had flaws and I think anyone who could have stood upto him and his punch like Evander did later on would have always beaten!

OK, that's understandable.


This thread also has me wondering why guys like Tommy Brooks, Ronnie Shields, et al don't have better fighters or don't have any good heavyweights.

Also I am wondering why Kevin Rooney's best fighter since Tyson left was Vinny Paz, and his best heavyweight since that time was Thomas Hayes. If his system works, and for some guys (stocky, short fighters, with quick hands) it does.

Originally Posted by Lyle

OK, that's understandable.


This thread also has me wondering why guys like Tommy Brooks, Ronnie Shields, et al don't have better fighters or don't have any good heavyweights.

Also I am wondering why Kevin Rooney's best fighter since Tyson left was Vinny Paz, and his best heavyweight since that time was Thomas Hayes. If his system works, and for some guys (stocky, short fighters, with quick hands) it does.

I think that basically the U.S. is short of fighters on the whole at the minute, with a lot of would be fighters taking less dangerous routes such as Football and basketball etc.

If the guys with the natural talents aren't really there anymore, at least not in the same way they once were, then even the great trainers can't make them into the next Evanders or Roy Jones'.

The reason I used the 2 names I did are I know that both were capable at other sports (Evander Football and Roy Basketball) and apparently could have made pro at them sports, but both chose boxing instead and both became ATG's. In this day and age I think a lot of people in the same position may well take the other sport due to the risk/reward factor.

Thats not to say a good living cannot be made from boxing, it's just a sport that you have to reach the top in and risk being killed every time you perform to make millions.

So to me it's not the trainers that lose it but rather the natural talent is few and far between now!

Jorge Rubio and Amir Khan
Naz and Manny

Originally Posted by Lyle

I was thinking after the Hatton-Pacquiao fight that the pairing of Ricky and Floyd Mayweather Sr. would be (in hindsight) a very strange part of boxing history and I got to thinking more about some wierd pairings of fighters and trainers, some that worked out and some that didn't.

So list trainer-fighter pairings that were a little strange.

Wladimir Klitschko - Tommy Brooks, Freddie Roach

Lamon Brewster - Buddy McGirt

George Foreman - Angelo Dundee

Mike Tyson - Tommy Brooks, Freddie Roach, Aaron Snowell, Panama Lewis


Anyone else have any fighter-trainer pairings that you think are a little strange?

I think the Foreman-Dundee pairing was just a matter of Foreman's attitude, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.