Wikileaks? Are you for or against what they are doing?
Wikileaks is all over the news right now. Julian Assange has been arrested on rather obscure sexual crimes allegations. At the same time his organisation has continued to release thousands upon thousands of classified documents. Personally, I admire the man. He has obtained these documents and chosen to release them to the world. They have told us a lot about the Iraq war, they have told us a lot about how the diplomatic world works, they have also further enhanced my critical viewpoints regarding America, the most corrupt crony capitalist state in the world. And also told us how dictatorships in the middle east want to invade Iran, but fail to tell us that most of the middle eastern populations actually view Israel and America as the biggest threats to the region
Apparently we have documents concerning the Bank of America next, which will further validate the claim that the greatest fraud ever commited has been covered up by our governments. Well, not really. Anyone who knows anything knows that mass fraud has been commited and that working people are now being made to pay for it. Austerity anyone? A total sham. But that's the line we are being fed. "We are all in it together". No we aren't. They have been bailed out and now the rest of society is paying for it. Ireland, Spain, Italy, America, Britain....all facing austerity measures? For what? These people did nothing wrong.
So sure, stick Assange behind bars. But the real criminals are running free. There have been no prosecutions for this massive fraud that caused the crisis. But I am digressing, Mastercard and other payment agencies have decided to attack Wikileaks too by cutting off any transactions. Furthermore, the wikileaks site is under constant attack by groups trying to shut off their website.
I look at this as a serious assault on the freedom of information and the freedom of speech. We have someone as ridiculous as Sarah Palin suggestion that Assange be treated as though he were the leader of the Taliban. What? He should be assasinated by the US military? America has lost the plot. Good luck with her as the next president! I look upon Wikileaks as a valuable and important resource and more so in a world where the US media is so lacking. We need this.
So what are your view on wikileaks? Are you for or against it?
Re: Wikileaks? Are you for or against what they are doing?
Well I think that Assange is probably a completely arrogant self important wankstain who enjoys the feeling of power that he has. He is doing what he is doing with no sense of respect or reponsibility considering the nature of the documents he is handling.
It's all about him being in control and the grandoise feeling of power that he weilds.
As you can imagine I think he is a tosser.
Ironically his revelations have only served to benefit America by demonstrating, as you say above that American involvement in the middle east, and the removal of Iran is actively supported, and even begged for by much of the Arab world.
The legacy of his anti American revelations will likely be that he provided America with a huge shot in the arm in terms of his evidence that an invasion of Iran is wanted by the Arab community at large, and that they regard them as the real threat in the Middle East, more so than Israel.
I think the Americans and the Jews will be loving those revelations.
The rest of the revelations are all fairly mundane and trivial saying nothing much that tabloid papers haven't already said. Aside from America wanting to spy on leading EU ministers (which I think is actually a good idea, I don't trust those cunts at all) I think America's secret side came across as pretty benign.
Assinge will probaly end up serving life in prison, and America will use his revelations to start their next war, without needing to convince anyone as well all know the Arabs hate the Iranians and fear them as much as we do.
The Arabs are more afraid of Israel, and want them to invade Iran. who'd have thunk it!
Re: Wikileaks? Are you for or against what they are doing?
I voted yes to your poll, I think it does show the secret truths.
But America has come out of it pretty well and so Assange has actually just been their best publicist.
Re: Wikileaks? Are you for or against what they are doing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Well I think that Assange is probably a completely arrogant self important wankstain who enjoys the feeling of power that he has. He is doing what he is doing with no sense of respect or reponsibility considering the nature of the documents he is handling.
It's all about him being in control and the grandoise feeling of power that he weilds.
As you can imagine I think he is a tosser.
Ironically his revelations have only served to benefit America by demonstrating, as you say above that American involvement in the middle east, and the removal of Iran is actively supported, and even begged for by much of the Arab world.
The legacy of his anti American revelations will likely be that he provided America with a huge shot in the arm in terms of his evidence that an invasion of Iran is wanted by the Arab community at large, and that they regard them as the real threat in the Middle East, more so than Israel.
I think the Americans and the Jews will be loving those revelations.
The rest of the revelations are all fairly mundane and trivial saying nothing much that tabloid papers haven't already said. Aside from America wanting to spy on leading EU ministers (which I think is actually a good idea, I don't trust those cunts at all) I think America's secret side came across as pretty benign.
Assinge will probaly end up serving life in prison, and America will use his revelations to start their next war, without needing to convince anyone as well all know the Arabs hate the Iranians and fear them as much as we do.
The Arabs are more afraid of Israel, and want them to invade Iran. who'd have thunk it!
Absolutely not.
The documents show that dictators want rid of Iran. And we know that America wants it too. So what? So we should have listened to Hitler and bowed down to his wishes against the wishes of the general populations? So America should listen to dictatorships such as those from Saudi Arabia? Possibly the worst country in that region in terms of respecting human rights and also the country where most of the 9-11 terrorists came from? Why should America be so close with them and also listening to their opinions? :rolleyes:
Iran is no threat to the region as most of the Arab populations of those countries attest to believing. In fact as has been shown, most of those people believe Israel and America to be the biggest threats to the region. And historical facts support their viewpoints.
These releases make Israel look awful and America too. But what is even worse is that on the news yesterday I see that America has given up on trying to bribe Israel with giving up on the building of illegal settlements. Now why should America even need to be bribing Israel on something that is a clear violation of international law?
Bilbo, you have an agenda. That agenda is to oppose me and that is fair enough. But it is beyond me why you would want to oppose someone whose agenda is nothing but moral. For example, how do you validate the continued building of settlements that are clearly illegal? Is that okay because it is Israel carrying out the construction? I don't get why you would defend this? Only a nasty person could support such a thing.
Re: Wikileaks? Are you for or against what they are doing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Well I think that Assange is probably a completely arrogant self important wankstain who enjoys the feeling of power that he has. He is doing what he is doing with no sense of respect or reponsibility considering the nature of the documents he is handling.
It's all about him being in control and the grandoise feeling of power that he weilds.
As you can imagine I think he is a tosser.
Ironically his revelations have only served to benefit America by demonstrating, as you say above that American involvement in the middle east, and the removal of Iran is actively supported, and even begged for by much of the Arab world.
The legacy of his anti American revelations will likely be that he provided America with a huge shot in the arm in terms of his evidence that an invasion of Iran is wanted by the Arab community at large, and that they regard them as the real threat in the Middle East, more so than Israel.
I think the Americans and the Jews will be loving those revelations.
The rest of the revelations are all fairly mundane and trivial saying nothing much that tabloid papers haven't already said. Aside from America wanting to spy on leading EU ministers (which I think is actually a good idea, I don't trust those cunts at all) I think America's secret side came across as pretty benign.
Assinge will probaly end up serving life in prison, and America will use his revelations to start their next war, without needing to convince anyone as well all know the Arabs hate the Iranians and fear them as much as we do.
The Arabs are more afraid of Israel, and want them to invade Iran. who'd have thunk it!
Absolutely not.
The documents show that dictators want rid of Iran. And we know that America wants it too. So what? So we should have listened to Hitler and bowed down to his wishes against the wishes of the general populations? So America should listen to dictatorships such as those from Saudi Arabia? Possibly the worst country in that region in terms of respecting human rights and also the country where most of the 9-11 terrorists came from? Why should America be so close with them and also listening to their opinions? :rolleyes:
Iran is no threat to the region as most of the Arab populations of those countries attest to believing. In fact as has been shown, most of those people believe Israel and America to be the biggest threats to the region. And historical facts support their viewpoints.
These releases make Israel look awful and America too. But what is even worse is that on the news yesterday I see that America has given up on trying to bribe Israel with giving up on the building of illegal settlements. Now why should America even need to be bribing Israel on something that is a clear violation of international law?
Bilbo, you have an agenda. That agenda is to oppose me and that is fair enough. But it is beyond me why you would want to oppose someone whose agenda is nothing but moral. For example, how do you validate the continued building of settlements that are clearly illegal? Is that okay because it is Israel carrying out the construction? I don't get why you would defend this? Only a nasty person could support such a thing.
haha that made me laugh. Like there are so many democracies in the Arab world ;D How do they make Israel look awful exactly?
Re: Wikileaks? Are you for or against what they are doing?
I'm off out now Miles mate but I am genuinely interested as to how you think these revelations have made America look bad?
I think most reports I have seen have been very positive about how America acts in secret.
And the fact that even the Arabs themselves are more concerned about Iran than Israel is a massive blow to your pro Chomsky Finkelstein Jew hating allies. ;D
Thanks to Assange America now have the backing of the Arab world to sort out the growing Iranian menace. There were no great revelations against America at all. No sinister plots, no massive corruption or secret assassinations, tortures, kidnaps etc.
It was mostly rather bland opinion pieces on presidents and persons that are mostly shared by the world at large.
Gordon Brown was a useless prime minister, Britains obsession with being Americas best friend was pathetic, Sarkozy is an arrogant fool, Angela Merkel is a risk avoider, nothing really to shock the world, or even disagree with.
And I've not heard anything bad about Israel in this at all, apart from that they are no longer regarded as the biggest threat in the desert by the Arabs.
Re: Wikileaks? Are you for or against what they are doing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
katfight
Ur off out ??? Bilbo stop lying. :0p
Top level chess game tonight, we're away at Newton Abbott. It's a big top of the table clash :cool:
The life I lead eh Kat, admit it, you want a piece of me :)
Re: Wikileaks? Are you for or against what they are doing?
The issue I have with this is that people (the goofball liberal loonies out there like miles and dare I say those even farther to the left than he) will glorify Assange to be some sort of righteous leader trying to spread truth and fact seemingly for no other reasons than he wants to end all wars. The FACT of the situation is that he DOES have an agenda and if "ending all wars" truly is his goal, then why leak information about countries wanting to take out Iran (more specifically Ahmidinijad[sp?]). Just the leaking of that information alone is a threat to national security, we're talking about a nation that is soon to have nuclear capabilities (albeit with shitty North Korean rockets, but it'll still affect our Allies in that area and maybe even those in Europe).
Assange is just your typical narcissistic leftist anarchist who wants to take El Che's place on the red t-shirts sold at head shops.
As for what should be done about him, well #1 We demolish his sources because leaking secrets is basically treason or at best espionage #2 He controls the site, he produced the forum for it, and he should be held accountable for what he's done and apparently unlike you miles, I consider it a very serious threat to national security and the economy as well now that they've delved into that as well.
Re: Wikileaks? Are you for or against what they are doing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
The issue I have with this is that people (the goofball liberal loonies out there like miles and dare I say those even farther to the left than he) will glorify Assange to be some sort of righteous leader trying to spread truth and fact seemingly for no other reasons than he wants to end all wars. The FACT of the situation is that he DOES have an agenda and if "ending all wars" truly is his goal, then why leak information about countries wanting to take out Iran (more specifically Ahmidinijad[sp?]). Just the leaking of that information alone is a threat to national security, we're talking about a nation that is soon to have nuclear capabilities (albeit with shitty North Korean rockets, but it'll still affect our Allies in that area and maybe even those in Europe).
Assange is just your typical narcissistic leftist anarchist who wants to take El Che's place on the red t-shirts sold at head shops.
As for what should be done about him, well #1 We demolish his sources because leaking secrets is basically treason or at best espionage #2 He controls the site, he produced the forum for it, and he should be held accountable for what he's done and apparently unlike you miles, I consider it a very serious threat to national security and the economy as well now that they've delved into that as well.
I think I agree with the treason thing.
But then we have total freedom of speech, Geneva conventions, rules of engament its confusing to know where to draw the line in this high tech world of info with no secrets.
This type of stuff isnt good for anyone, it will force some agencies deeper under ground (thats a worry because these are usually full of humans with zero conscious: they only have agendas. (The ones who run such things as counter espionage). That type of secrecy leads to some sectors having zero accountability.
(Its exactly what they want too) which makes them even worse.
Re: Wikileaks? Are you for or against what they are doing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andre
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
The issue I have with this is that people (the goofball liberal loonies out there like miles and dare I say those even farther to the left than he) will glorify Assange to be some sort of righteous leader trying to spread truth and fact seemingly for no other reasons than he wants to end all wars. The FACT of the situation is that he DOES have an agenda and if "ending all wars" truly is his goal, then why leak information about countries wanting to take out Iran (more specifically Ahmidinijad[sp?]). Just the leaking of that information alone is a threat to national security, we're talking about a nation that is soon to have nuclear capabilities (albeit with shitty North Korean rockets, but it'll still affect our Allies in that area and maybe even those in Europe).
Assange is just your typical narcissistic leftist anarchist who wants to take El Che's place on the red t-shirts sold at head shops.
As for what should be done about him, well #1 We demolish his sources because leaking secrets is basically treason or at best espionage #2 He controls the site, he produced the forum for it, and he should be held accountable for what he's done and apparently unlike you miles, I consider it a very serious threat to national security and the economy as well now that they've delved into that as well.
I think I agree with the treason thing.
But then we have total freedom of speech, Geneva conventions, rules of engament its confusing to know where to draw the line in this high tech world of info with no secrets.
This type of stuff isnt good for anyone, it will force some agencies deeper under ground (thats a worry because these are usually full of humans with zero conscious: they only have agendas. (The ones who run such things as counter espionage). That type of secrecy leads to some sectors having zero accountability.
(Its exactly what they want too) which makes them even worse.
I don't think this has anything to do with freedom of speech. They are basically stealing classified information, it's a serious threat indeed. And Assange doesn't do it in even a halfway responsible way.
I hope he gets life in prison and then America use his revelations as proof that Iran is a threat even to it's neighbours and take them out.
It's been a real shot in the arm for America and Israel in the opinions of most I think.
I even found conspiracy theories online that say Assange is actually working for the CIA as a propagandist to try and paint Israel in a good light and twist scenarios in the middle east to portray Iran as the bad guys. Lack of evidence against Israel is a proof of a cover up it seems. I imagine this the viewpoint that Miles will be trumpeting when he comes back :D
Re: Wikileaks? Are you for or against what they are doing?
Yeah your right, its unfortunate but national security is of course a necessity.
Im not so much talking about this area of info and its direct repercussions but it will stem down into other areas of security now too. Fear breeds contempt and both grow faster when pushed underground.
I just dont like the scruples of those who are behind some things in each country and how they actually operate outside of the law already.
This will do more damage than good in many areas it could have them all re evaluate structures of whos who and who is privy to certain info which will send them into a protective void that will then give them more free reign to act in their area without fear of having to answer to anyone, that could spell out future corruption to some human rights.
Re: Wikileaks? Are you for or against what they are doing?
I feel pretty ambivalent about it to be honest. Not really sure what my thoughts our.
I did listen to an ex-spy say that she thought it might have been the CIA who arranged for the information to be leaked as a psy-ops operation (not that the wikileaks guy would know this). She said that she thought that they would include one or two pieces of key information (IE the shit about Iran) and a whole bunch of meaningless other stuff in order to shape peoples opinions.
