Re: Douglas manhandles Tyson
The great fiction of this fight is that Douglas got a "long count." First off, ref's counts are rarely ten seconds, they are instead ten counts. Second the fighter's job is to follow the ref's count, whatever it is. Third, Buster pretty clearly could have gotten up 6-7 seconds (by a clock) after he got dropped. Lastly, the Douglas count was 14 seconds. But guess what Tyson's count was? The same 14 seconds.
As for Tyson not being "mentally prepared?" As irrelevant as Dempsey's mental condition before Tunney, Ray Leonard's before Duran or Robinson's before Turpin. Part of the game. The guy who handles the outside pressures better as an edge.
Still shocking to see.
Re: Douglas manhandles Tyson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
The great fiction of this fight is that Douglas got a "long count." First off, ref's counts are rarely ten seconds, they are instead ten counts. Second the fighter's job is to follow the ref's count, whatever it is. Third, Buster pretty clearly could have gotten up 6-7 seconds (by a clock) after he got dropped. Lastly, the Douglas count was 14 seconds. But guess what Tyson's count was? The same 14 seconds.
As for Tyson not being "mentally prepared?" As irrelevant as Dempsey's mental condition before Tunney, Ray Leonard's before Duran or Robinson's before Turpin. Part of the game. The guy who handles the outside pressures better as an edge.
Still shocking to see.
I had just moved my family into an Apartment in Corpus Christi, Texas, in 1990, and didn't have HBO hooked up yet, so I actually rented a room for the night at a local motel that had HBO, hooked up my 8 track recorder to their TV and taped the fight as I watched it. I was loving every minute of the fight, Iron Mike gets his ass kicked for the first time as a Pro. :) I will say this for Tyson, he showed some heart & chin in that fight, Douglas was hitting him with some fucking bombs and except for the end of the last round he took it all, and kept trying to win.
As for the mental thing, in boxing (and life in general) that's something you always have to deal with, boxing is at least 50% mental, no? Prior to Douglas, Tyson had been blitzing though his opponents like Grant taking Vicksburg and he underestimated Douglas's skills and determination. I love watching fights, when the underdog, or the lamb being lead to the slaughter says: "you ain't gonna kick my ass tonight", and dishes out a beating to his "invincible" opponent.
BTW, Douglas just barely beat the count, he was up, just as the ref, Octavio Chihuahua, was about to count 10.
Re: Douglas manhandles Tyson
As inspired a performance that was from Douglas, you have to admit that Tyson was not the same boxer who wiped out Berbick, Thomas, Biggs and Spinks. He had little head movement and his technique was gone. He only survived that long because of his chin. I read that Tyson had syphilis went back to the US, he was not training right, Weaver had knocked him down in sparring. Tyson was an accident waiting to happen.
Re: Douglas manhandles Tyson
So much BULLSHIT around Tyson ,never beat anyone. Most hyped fighter in history.
Re: Douglas manhandles Tyson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
roberto duran legend
So much BULLSHIT around Tyson ,never beat anyone. Most hyped fighter in history.
I'm not Tyson fan at all, but during his "prime" years, I would have given him a shot a beating any HW in the history of boxing. He was a force to be reckoned with.
Re: Douglas manhandles Tyson
fast hands,fast feet. He would give many a plodding heavyweights a nightmare.
Re: Douglas manhandles Tyson
Tyson lost against Douglas because he thought it would be a walk in the park and didn't train in consequence at all. Result: a very bad awakening and then a deflated invincibility halo.
Re: Douglas manhandles Tyson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Howlin Mad Missy
fast hands,fast feet. He would give many a plodding heavyweights a nightmare.
Yup, and one punch KO power, people can say what they want about Tyson's annihilation of Larry Holmes for example, Holmes was old, didn't get a chance to train et al, but nobody EVER manhandled Holmes the way Tyson did in that fight.
It's easy now to say that Tyson was an over hyped, piece of shit, but I used to hang out, drink beer & talk boxing with some old Pros back when Tyson was at his best, and more then a few of them said at that time, Tyson was the best HW ever.
Douglas fights Tyson a year or so earlier, and I bet Douglas wouldn't have lasted 3 rounds, and i'd also bet Douglas would have gotten his ass torn up in a rematch.
Re: Douglas manhandles Tyson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nameless
Tyson lost against Douglas because he thought it would be a walk in the park and didn't train in consequence at all. Result: a very bad awakening and then a deflated invincibility halo.
Right, Tyson badly underestimated Douglas, and his determination to win.
Re: Douglas manhandles Tyson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Howlin Mad Missy
fast hands,fast feet. He would give many a plodding heavyweights a nightmare.
Yup, and one punch KO power, people can say what they want about Tyson's annihilation of Larry Holmes for example, Holmes was old, didn't get a chance to train et al, but nobody
EVER manhandled Holmes the way Tyson did in that fight.
It's easy now to say that Tyson was an over hyped, piece of shit, but I used to hang out, drink beer & talk boxing with some old Pros back when Tyson was at his best, and more then a few of them said at that time, Tyson was the best HW ever.
Douglas fights Tyson a year or so earlier, and I bet Douglas wouldn't have lasted 3 rounds, and i'd also bet Douglas would have gotten his ass torn up in a rematch.
To be fair nobody ever fought a 39 year old Holmes who had been retired for 18 months, trained for a month and said before the fight "I'll know how to stay on my stool and take the check."
For three rounds Tyson has a chance against anyone who ever laced'em up.
I just never got Tyson or the idea in the 1980's that he was the best ever. Maybe it was me, but I couldn't figure out at the time how someone could say those things about a guy who had never been tested and had to deal with adversity.
Now to be fair to the Tyson, he took one hell of a beating before he succumbed against Buster. He tactically didn't deal with the adversity very well (and his cornermen should have been shot) , but he showed plenty of heart and desire I thought. In some ways I thought more of him after the fight than I had before.
Re: Douglas manhandles Tyson
I love watching this fight. Not just for the upset factor but the era. It was really a huge transition point for the heavyweight division and a story of two top notch fighters who really lost the ball when seemingly at absolute tip top. Douglas had previous mental lapses Tyson was not worn by ring wars and age so much as his own aura and massive success. Mentally...he got fat. Way too much is made of him not being at best, having issues etc etc but who doesn't. You sink or swim and really find out what your make up is when faced with the biggest adversity.
Ive seen it said that Mike was the most dominant destructive force in decades and you can't deny his ferocity and edge of the seat appeal. The man was a dynamo! But largely he swept clean a cluttered field of hangers on and belt holders that warmed the trinket more then merited the Championship. Besting a Tubbs, Tucker, Biggs etc etc does not equate to same dominance in division just years later had it been a peak Bowe, Holyfield, Mercer or even a slower though much wiser Foreman etc. He did all that can be asked in terms of going through what was available and giving division something it desperately lacks since and thats uniformity and a undeniable figure head. But ultimately he waned and got caught slipping and thats all it takes. He was the best he was able to be that night. Thats on him, entirely. And Douglas put on a show for the ages, just a display of long fluid punching and mindset that makes you glad to be a fan...and wishing he had kept his head right for a while. I think Tyson benefits from a bit of rose colored glasses and a yearning to have that undeniability and clarity back in what so many hold to be the division which drives the sport. He gave alot away of him self and could never really regain footing.
Re: Douglas manhandles Tyson
Tyson ripped through the 80s no doubt. But I always found it ridiculous that just because he beat up guys like Berbick, Biggs, Thomas, that automatically means he beats Ali, 70s Foreman, prime Holmes, Liston, and any other HW in the past you can name.
Re: Douglas manhandles Tyson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
I love watching this fight. Not just for the upset factor but the era. It was really a huge transition point for the heavyweight division and a story of two top notch fighters who really lost the ball when seemingly at absolute tip top. Douglas had previous mental lapses Tyson was not worn by ring wars and age so much as his own aura and massive success. Mentally...he got fat. Way too much is made of him not being at best, having issues etc etc but who doesn't. You sink or swim and really find out what your make up is when faced with the biggest adversity.
Ive seen it said that Mike was the most dominant destructive force in decades and you can't deny his ferocity and edge of the seat appeal. The man was a dynamo! But largely he swept clean a cluttered field of hangers on and belt holders that warmed the trinket more then merited the Championship. Besting a Tubbs, Tucker, Biggs etc etc does not equate to same dominance in division just years later had it been a peak Bowe, Holyfield, Mercer or even a slower though much wiser Foreman etc. He did all that can be asked in terms of going through what was available and giving division something it desperately lacks since and thats uniformity and a undeniable figure head. But ultimately he waned and got caught slipping and thats all it takes. He was the best he was able to be that night. Thats on him, entirely. And Douglas put on a show for the ages, just a display of long fluid punching and mindset that makes you glad to be a fan...and wishing he had kept his head right for a while. I think Tyson benefits from a bit of rose colored glasses and a yearning to have that undeniability and clarity back in what so many hold to be the division which drives the sport. He gave alot away of him self and could never really regain footing.
I wish I'd written that!
Re: Douglas manhandles Tyson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
I love watching this fight. Not just for the upset factor but the era. It was really a huge transition point for the heavyweight division and a story of two top notch fighters who really lost the ball when seemingly at absolute tip top. Douglas had previous mental lapses Tyson was not worn by ring wars and age so much as his own aura and massive success. Mentally...he got fat. Way too much is made of him not being at best, having issues etc etc but who doesn't. You sink or swim and really find out what your make up is when faced with the biggest adversity.
Ive seen it said that Mike was the most dominant destructive force in decades and you can't deny his ferocity and edge of the seat appeal. The man was a dynamo! But largely he swept clean a cluttered field of hangers on and belt holders that warmed the trinket more then merited the Championship. Besting a Tubbs, Tucker, Biggs etc etc does not equate to same dominance in division just years later had it been a peak Bowe, Holyfield, Mercer or even a slower though much wiser Foreman etc. He did all that can be asked in terms of going through what was available and giving division something it desperately lacks since and thats uniformity and a undeniable figure head. But ultimately he waned and got caught slipping and thats all it takes. He was the best he was able to be that night. Thats on him, entirely. And Douglas put on a show for the ages, just a display of long fluid punching and mindset that makes you glad to be a fan...and wishing he had kept his head right for a while. I think Tyson benefits from a bit of rose colored glasses and a yearning to have that undeniability and clarity back in what so many hold to be the division which drives the sport. He gave alot away of him self and could never really regain footing.
I wish I'd written that!
Just glad It didnt make the eyes cross over midway ;D Rewatched again, a friggin hot water bottle! Sums the people he surrounded himself with well eh.
