Is Juan Manuel Marquez Over Rated?

It just seems everybody is raving on about this guy like hes the next best thing since sliced bread. Dont get me wrong hes a good fighter but no way hes an ATG, every time hes stepped up hes lost and to be honest hasnt beat a top 10 p4p at his peak ever. It seems like the fans/mexican fans are clinging on to that last hope, after most of the mexican greats have retired or fallen. I dont know if its just me but his record isnt all that either:

Lost to F Norwood
Drew with Pac (should have lost)
Lost to C John
Beat an old Barrera
Lost to Pac
Beat an old Casamayor
Beat Diaz (not a top p4pder either)

People that have him at current p4p no1 must be crazy. Should be Pac 1, then hopkins 2 (arguble personel choice). Dam hokins at 44yrs old beat the living hell out of Pavlic which should be held in higher regard to Marques's win over Diaz. Even pacs record demolishes marques's

Destroyed Barrera (prime)
Lost UD Morales
Destroyed Morales (Prime)
Destroyed Morales
Beat Barrera
Beat Marquez 2wice
Beat Diaz (not all that)
Destroyed dela Hoya ( Massive underdog, tiny compared to Hoya)
Next Hatton (Again 6 months ago people were saying no chance)

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Originally Posted by MIKAY

It just seems everybody is raving on about this guy like hes the next best thing since sliced bread. Dont get me wrong hes a good fighter but no way hes an ATG, every time hes stepped up hes lost and to be honest hasnt beat a top 10 p4p at his peak ever. It seems like the fans/mexican fans are clinging on to that last hope, after most of the mexican greats have retired or fallen. I dont know if its just me but his record isnt all that either:

Lost to F Norwood
Drew with Pac (came back from being dropped 3 times in the first and many feel he still should have won)
Lost to C John (fought John in Indonesia and lost a controversial decision)
Beat an old Barrera (well Pac beat an older Barrera afterwards and didn't look half as impressive in their rematch)
Lost to Pac (by Majority Decision, and most sports writers feel JMM won)
Beat an old Casamayor (was considered the lineal lightweight champ even while Pac was at 135)
Beat Diaz (was the undisputed lightweight champ not even a year ago)

People that have him at current p4p no1 must be crazy. Should be Pac 1, then hopkins 2 (arguble personel choice). Dam hokins at 44yrs old beat the living hell out of Pavlic which should be held in higher regard to Marques's win over Diaz. Even pacs record demolishes marques's

Destroyed Barrera (prime)
Lost UD Morales
Destroyed Morales (Morales was already starting to lose it was noticeable in the Raheem fight)
Destroyed Morales (shot)
Beat Barrera (after JMM beat him)
Beat Marquez 2wice (both controversial decisions, and very close fights)
Beat Diaz (biggest joke in the lightweight division)
Destroyed dela Hoya ( old, weight drained, and shot)
Next Hatton (has plenty of shot, but it's not gonna be a cakewalk)

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add a KO loss at 106 for Pacquiao and i'd say that JMM isn't overrated at all

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Originally Posted by MIKAY

It just seems everybody is raving on about this guy like hes the next best thing since sliced bread. Dont get me wrong hes a good fighter but no way hes an ATG, every time hes stepped up hes lost and to be honest hasnt beat a top 10 p4p at his peak ever. It seems like the fans/mexican fans are clinging on to that last hope, after most of the mexican greats have retired or fallen. I dont know if its just me but his record isnt all that either:

Lost to F Norwood
Drew with Pac (should have lost)
Lost to C John
Beat an old Barrera
Lost to Pac
Beat an old Casamayor
Beat Diaz (not a top p4pder either)

People that have him at current p4p no1 must be crazy. Should be Pac 1, then hopkins 2 (arguble personel choice). Dam hokins at 44yrs old beat the living hell out of Pavlic which should be held in higher regard to Marques's win over Diaz. Even pacs record demolishes marques's

Destroyed Barrera (prime)
Lost UD Morales
Destroyed Morales (Prime)
Destroyed Morales
Beat Barrera
Beat Marquez 2wice
Beat Diaz (not all that)
Destroyed dela Hoya ( Massive underdog, tiny compared to Hoya)
Next Hatton (Again 6 months ago people were saying no chance)

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http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...-top-10-a.html

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...pound-1-a.html

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...4p-1-ever.html

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...supremacy.html

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...-underway.html


Go read these really quick, everyone on here has stated their opinions on this matter in great depth, thank you for your cooperation.

To be honest mate your right
except for a few end comments like having prime written after Barrera and Morrales those two warriors faced wars and have taken damage that Pac has never seen.

Odlh was gaunt and smaller looking than Manny when they fought; but hey 10/10 for what Manny did that was great.

Pac is great dont get me wrong.

If Pac didnt exist and have his core strength and great genetics Marquez would rule the lesser weights.
Marquez is not genetically the same as Pac he is not as strong ;He is a better boxer though.And he has a bigger heart because he comes back from Mannys damage and takes rounds off him.
Marquez is like an old style 15 rounder and would win if those fights went like that i belive.

The thing we usual fight fans have not against Pac but against his fans is that they cant see they are simply blessed by having such a man come out of their country.

Instead they waltz in here with their egos in full flight and try to tell everyone which way the wind blows about the whole sport just because they have this one great fighter to ride on the back of.

It gets tiring dealing with people with such egos who just want to be pumped up further by being correct at every turn and can only talk up one fighter who is great for sure, but hey this is a big sport with many fighters in it.

That is why people have writting stuff up about Marquez;and rightly so.

I agree also that Marquez shouldnt be pfp #1 at the moment.

Think about it,the fact that we are asking this question at this point in Marquezs career and age speaks to his talent and skills.Honestly asking,how many Marquez fights have you viewed throughout his career??

Make no mistake,Marquez has earned respect......as has Pacquiao !

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Originally Posted by MIKAY

It just seems everybody is raving on about this guy like hes the next best thing since sliced bread. Dont get me wrong hes a good fighter but no way hes an ATG, every time hes stepped up hes lost and to be honest hasnt beat a top 10 p4p at his peak ever. It seems like the fans/mexican fans are clinging on to that last hope, after most of the mexican greats have retired or fallen. I dont know if its just me but his record isnt all that either:

Lost to F Norwood
Drew with Pac (should have lost)
Lost to C John
Beat an old Barrera
Lost to Pac
Beat an old Casamayor
Beat Diaz (not a top p4pder either)

People that have him at current p4p no1 must be crazy. Should be Pac 1, then hopkins 2 (arguble personel choice). Dam hokins at 44yrs old beat the living hell out of Pavlic which should be held in higher regard to Marques's win over Diaz. Even pacs record demolishes marques's

Destroyed Barrera (prime)
Lost UD Morales
Destroyed Morales (Prime)
Destroyed Morales
Beat Barrera
Beat Marquez 2wice
Beat Diaz (not all that)
Destroyed dela Hoya ( Massive underdog, tiny compared to Hoya)
Next Hatton (Again 6 months ago people were saying no chance)

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If Pacquiao didn't exist, Marquez would be another boxer that got ignored. He is visible when he's in the ring against a brawler. This is when his fights are exciting. He is only overrated by his groupies, and commentators that don't like Pacquiao because they think he is overrated otherwise Marquez gets his just due.

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

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Originally Posted by MIKAY

It just seems everybody is raving on about this guy like hes the next best thing since sliced bread. Dont get me wrong hes a good fighter but no way hes an ATG, every time hes stepped up hes lost and to be honest hasnt beat a top 10 p4p at his peak ever. It seems like the fans/mexican fans are clinging on to that last hope, after most of the mexican greats have retired or fallen. I dont know if its just me but his record isnt all that either:

Lost to F Norwood
Drew with Pac (should have lost)
Lost to C John
Beat an old Barrera
Lost to Pac
Beat an old Casamayor
Beat Diaz (not a top p4pder either)

People that have him at current p4p no1 must be crazy. Should be Pac 1, then hopkins 2 (arguble personel choice). Dam hokins at 44yrs old beat the living hell out of Pavlic which should be held in higher regard to Marques's win over Diaz. Even pacs record demolishes marques's

Destroyed Barrera (prime)
Lost UD Morales
Destroyed Morales (Prime)
Destroyed Morales
Beat Barrera
Beat Marquez 2wice
Beat Diaz (not all that)
Destroyed dela Hoya ( Massive underdog, tiny compared to Hoya)
Next Hatton (Again 6 months ago people were saying no chance)

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If Pacquiao didn't exist, Marquez would be another boxer that got ignored. He is visible when he's in the ring against a brawler. This is when his fights are exciting. He is only overrated by his groupies, and commentators that don't like Pacquiao because they think he is overrated otherwise Marquez gets his just due.

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completely redundant

If you think a fighter of JMM's caliber is overrated, you should most likely watch more boxing.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

Think about it,the fact that we are asking this question at this point in Marquezs career and age speaks to his talent and skills.Honestly asking,how many Marquez fights have you viewed throughout his career??

Make no mistake,Marquez has earned respect......as has Pacquiao !

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I watched many of marquez's fights and like i said earlier he is a great fighter and hes got some of that animal instinct that barrera or morales had aka when they get hurt they go ballistic. I even a few nights ago i got stuck into some youtube, strictly watching marquez.

I just think he hasn't got that defining fight under his belt yet and at 35 my be to late.

Like Pacs got Barrera or even Hoya or even Marquez under his belt
Barrera's got Hamed etc
This list goes on when your talking about p4pders.

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Originally Posted by bcollins

If you think a fighter of JMM's caliber is overrated, you should most likely watch more boxing.

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Its just my personal opinion, I respect your. I dont think hes had a career defining fight yet.

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

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Originally Posted by MIKAY

It just seems everybody is raving on about this guy like hes the next best thing since sliced bread. Dont get me wrong hes a good fighter but no way hes an ATG, every time hes stepped up hes lost and to be honest hasnt beat a top 10 p4p at his peak ever. It seems like the fans/mexican fans are clinging on to that last hope, after most of the mexican greats have retired or fallen. I dont know if its just me but his record isnt all that either:

Lost to F Norwood
Drew with Pac (should have lost)
Lost to C John
Beat an old Barrera
Lost to Pac
Beat an old Casamayor
Beat Diaz (not a top p4pder either)

People that have him at current p4p no1 must be crazy. Should be Pac 1, then hopkins 2 (arguble personel choice). Dam hokins at 44yrs old beat the living hell out of Pavlic which should be held in higher regard to Marques's win over Diaz. Even pacs record demolishes marques's

Destroyed Barrera (prime)
Lost UD Morales
Destroyed Morales (Prime)
Destroyed Morales
Beat Barrera
Beat Marquez 2wice
Beat Diaz (not all that)
Destroyed dela Hoya ( Massive underdog, tiny compared to Hoya)
Next Hatton (Again 6 months ago people were saying no chance)

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If Pacquiao didn't exist, Marquez would be another boxer that got ignored. He is visible when he's in the ring against a brawler. This is when his fights are exciting. He is only overrated by his groupies, and commentators that don't like Pacquiao because they think he is overrated otherwise Marquez gets his just due.

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completely redundant

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Absolutely brilliant, that! "People sometimes, see exactly what they want to see."

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

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Originally Posted by MIKAY

It just seems everybody is raving on about this guy like hes the next best thing since sliced bread. Dont get me wrong hes a good fighter but no way hes an ATG, every time hes stepped up hes lost and to be honest hasnt beat a top 10 p4p at his peak ever. It seems like the fans/mexican fans are clinging on to that last hope, after most of the mexican greats have retired or fallen. I dont know if its just me but his record isnt all that either:

Lost to F Norwood
Drew with Pac (should have lost)
Lost to C John
Beat an old Barrera
Lost to Pac
Beat an old Casamayor
Beat Diaz (not a top p4pder either)

People that have him at current p4p no1 must be crazy. Should be Pac 1, then hopkins 2 (arguble personel choice). Dam hokins at 44yrs old beat the living hell out of Pavlic which should be held in higher regard to Marques's win over Diaz. Even pacs record demolishes marques's

Destroyed Barrera (prime)
Lost UD Morales
Destroyed Morales (Prime)
Destroyed Morales
Beat Barrera
Beat Marquez 2wice
Beat Diaz (not all that)
Destroyed dela Hoya ( Massive underdog, tiny compared to Hoya)
Next Hatton (Again 6 months ago people were saying no chance)

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If Pacquiao didn't exist, Marquez would be another boxer that got ignored. He is visible when he's in the ring against a brawler. This is when his fights are exciting. He is only overrated by his groupies, and commentators that don't like Pacquiao because they think he is overrated otherwise Marquez gets his just due.

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And exactly what would constitute being ignored ??You mean being ranked within the top 6 by The Ring by his 17th professional fight.....and within the top ten consistantly for the last 13 + years.....:dontknow:.Or possibly that both made they're respected HBO debuts within months of one another.....Albeit Pac as a 2 week last minute substitute and fill in for...cough...Enrique Sanchez?

You guys really need to let go of it...Marquez is an equal to Pacquiao,both are supreme fighters with different respected styles and skillsets........and last I checked Manny is set to fight Ricky Hatton,Good luck with that!

The gist of this thread seems the the same as the other threads; all attempting to pump up Pacs fans by putting down his closest rival.

Attempted Result: People who have followed fight styles for their whole lives cant hold a candle to anyone who follows only Pac man.

Marquez is the technically the better boxer.think about what he came back from and what he did against PAC that was pure skill and pure balls and chin.

Pac is naturally the stronger person and can take more risks because of it.

So Pac wins against Marquez..

big deal you dont need to put Marquez down to make Pac bigger than he already is (even in our eyes). WE KNOW ALREADY

If you need to put Marquez down or others down who follow his great boxing style so as to make yourselves all feel bigger,then that is very sad for you at this stage in your life , (if you cant generate it for yourself I mean).

Mikay if JMM is overrated then ask yourself why is he aside from Morales the only fighter who has argueably beat him twice in his prime?

You think he's overrated then why are both of the fights vs. Pac argueably wins for him. Not in the eyes of groupies but in the eyes of the boxing world especially the 2nd fight?
From writers to commentators you name it.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

If Pacquiao didn't exist, Marquez would be another boxer that got ignored. He is visible when he's in the ring against a brawler. This is when his fights are exciting. He is only overrated by his groupies, and commentators that don't like Pacquiao because they think he is overrated otherwise Marquez gets his just due.

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And exactly what would constitute being ignored ??You mean being ranked within the top 6 by The Ring by his 17th professional fight.....and within the top ten consistantly for the last 13 + years.....:dontknow:.Or possibly that both made they're respected HBO debuts within months of one another.....Albeit Pac as a 2 week last minute substitute and fill in for...cough...Enrique Sanchez?

You guys really need to let go of it...Marquez is an equal to Pacquiao,both are supreme fighters with different respected styles and skillsets........and last I checked Manny is set to fight Ricky Hatton,Good luck with that!

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You are misconstruing my statements about Marquez's popularity to a that of his ability.

Do a little google search and look at the career of Marquez. It tanked, twice. By himself he doesn't have the appeal. Marquez is a great fighter and I'm one of the first to say he proved that when he beat Diaz.

I'LL BE LOUD AND CLEAR. MARQUEZ IS NOT OVERRATED BY THE BOXING COMMUNITY, HE DESERVES HIS P4P #2 RATING.

Why is it you Pacquiao fans are so damn intimidated with Marquez being ranked right up there with your man? Is the controversy surrounding their two fights that heavy on your mind? I suppose they should be, because in many people's eyes Marquez won those fights. The fact remains: JMM is one man Pacman couldn't 'destroy' no matter how hard he tried. It is also amusing as hell how you tone down Marquez vs Barerra and Marquez vs Casa by adding 'old' to their names while trying to push Pacman's win over DLH as if DLH walked into the ring in his prime. Gimme a break. Makes me doubt if you saw any of those fights. No man who ever stepped into the ring with MAB walked away thinking he fought an old man.

Personally, I love watching Pacquiao fight and think he's the shit. I also have been watching JMM fight for a decade now and have seen him prove time and time again why he's so highly ranked and consistently so. Both men are top pound for pound fighters and a fight between the two could easily go either way. Pacman tends to dominate the early rounds while Marquez dominates the mid-later rounds - a fight fan couldn't ask for a more exciting matchup. I'm just waiting on the rubbermatch....

Keep in mind: By trying to debunk Pacquiao's peers soley to put your man on a pedestal, you put your knowledge of the sport into question.

For the record I respect Pac @ P4P#1.
However I don't respect commets like JMM is over rated.

I could have sworn I heard Buffer call JMM a future hall of famer while announcing his name before the Diaz fight.. I doubt he would make such a bold statement unless the majority of writers and associations didnt think he was.. So I wouldnt call that overrating;)

Is the guy who by most accounts now possibly is right up threre for pfp in the whole sport, and took pac the man who is pfp best in the sport to as close to a loss as you possibly can over rated ??!!! Wow i guess you have to beat guys mortal combat style these days to get respect.

Asrock PENRYN 1600 SLI-110DB

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Originally Posted by MIKAY

Asrock PENRYN 1600 SLI-110DB

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That is also overrated, overclocking is risky with it.

i personally consider marquez an ATG

Its hard for me to think of anyone at 135 currently that can beat him honestly.

What other Lightweights were there worth talking about besides Diaz?

The only guy he hasnt beaten is Katsidis but he doesnt have to as he beat the two people who beat him.

Well there are a few people left for him to face at 135.

There's Joan Guzman and Edwin Valero who has just moved up to 135 and is fighting for the vacant title that Nate Campbell had to vacate I saw on Boxrec.

And as prospects there's Anthony Peterson but he isnt ready yet. Maybe in a year or two.

So if Edwin Valero wins the title then him. And Joan Guzman is left for JMM.


If he beats them both no one will ever say he is overrated. They shouldnt be saying that anyway though

Now, that gives me an idea. If Joan fights Marquez, who would have won?

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

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Originally Posted by MIKAY

It just seems everybody is raving on about this guy like hes the next best thing since sliced bread. Dont get me wrong hes a good fighter but no way hes an ATG, every time hes stepped up hes lost and to be honest hasnt beat a top 10 p4p at his peak ever. It seems like the fans/mexican fans are clinging on to that last hope, after most of the mexican greats have retired or fallen. I dont know if its just me but his record isnt all that either:

Lost to F Norwood
Drew with Pac (should have lost)
Lost to C John
Beat an old Barrera
Lost to Pac
Beat an old Casamayor
Beat Diaz (not a top p4pder either)

People that have him at current p4p no1 must be crazy. Should be Pac 1, then hopkins 2 (arguble personel choice). Dam hokins at 44yrs old beat the living hell out of Pavlic which should be held in higher regard to Marques's win over Diaz. Even pacs record demolishes marques's

Destroyed Barrera (prime)
Lost UD Morales
Destroyed Morales (Prime)
Destroyed Morales
Beat Barrera
Beat Marquez 2wice
Beat Diaz (not all that)
Destroyed dela Hoya ( Massive underdog, tiny compared to Hoya)
Next Hatton (Again 6 months ago people were saying no chance)

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If Pacquiao didn't exist, Marquez would be another boxer that got ignored. He is visible when he's in the ring against a brawler. This is when his fights are exciting. He is only overrated by his groupies, and commentators that don't like Pacquiao because they think he is overrated otherwise Marquez gets his just due.

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completely redundant

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That typifies this entire thread. Hell, it typifies 90% of the posts here for the last month.

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

If Pacquiao didn't exist, Marquez would be another boxer that got ignored. He is visible when he's in the ring against a brawler. This is when his fights are exciting. He is only overrated by his groupies, and commentators that don't like Pacquiao because they think he is overrated otherwise Marquez gets his just due.

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completely redundant

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That typifies this entire thread. Hell, it typifies 90% of the posts here for the last month.

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* Destroyed Barrera (prime) a fighter whose camp was interrupted several times due to dangerous brush fires. Whose former promoter tried to sabbotage by leaking to the press that MAB had a surgery to his brain and a plate inserted. Combined the inability to train 100 due to air quality alerts and a media frenzy and underestimated by MAB
* Lost UD Morales - extremely competitive fight. EM had already been in many ring wars
* Destroyed Morales (Prime) see above. Morales entered fight coming off loss to MAB
* Destroyed Morales -- Had no business even being in the ring after entering the bout having his @ss served in an extremely lopsided loss to Zahir Raheem in his prior fight.
* Beat Barrera - already a spent boxer entered the fight coming off a loss to JMM.
* Beat Marquez? 1st fight - Unable to close the show after a tremendous 1st round. 3 knock downs winds up with a draw not a win as you have posted. Was thoroughly schooled but still should have won the decision
* Beat Marquez? 2nd fight. Once again is schooled by JMM manages only one KD yet wins a decision most professional analyst say he lost. If they fight a 3rd and it finishes in similar fashion expect the judges to give JMM the decision as restitution.
* Beat Diaz (not all that) try nothing
Destroyed de la Hoya, a washed up slow and plodding boxer that even Roach had said prior to their fight that he could no longer pull the trigger. Which is like try to claim kudos for bagging Tyra Banks after menopause based on what she accomplished before. Anyone knows a fighter making those kind of weight changes that late in their career and that only fights one a year is bound to lose. To add to matters ODLH has a hand in the PAC vs Hatton fight. Ringling Bros . in da HOUSE !!*
* Next Hatton - Hmmm, one big win over Kostya, an a "W" against a not interested in boxing or making weight JLC and a light hitting PM ...... The Kostya win is lost in peoples minds by a PBF KO Blooper highlight for the ages !!! (simply put OVER RATED !!!!) Mental state is still questionable fighting 2 light hitting low risk opponents in Juan Lazcano and Paul Malignaggi. Yet we are supposed to raise the Pac legend more based on this fights outcome ? Mayweather already took Hattons virginity. Cotto also has not proven he is mentally stable having KO'd a the light hitting Jennings (another in a long line of UK fighters to lay an egg on the big is stage. Mosley may not be able to put back to back masterpieces at his age So only 3 fights for Pac are legit.
PBF - After a PBF tune up fight to clear ring rust
JMM at 135 - 2 fights ever so close for comfort
Ortiz - Put to rest the image of not fighting a young, powerful and dangerous opponent on his resume (after Ortiz beats a a top 3 contender)

See a pattern? Precision match making: Foe must be battle worn, over 30, coming off a loss, or mentally unstable ...... ARUM #1 P4P match scheduling for PAC

Nope

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Originally Posted by Addicted to_boxing

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

completely redundant

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That typifies this entire thread. Hell, it typifies 90% of the posts here for the last month.

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* Destroyed Barrera (prime) a fighter whose camp was interrupted several times due to dangerous brush fires. Whose former promoter tried to sabbotage by leaking to the press that MAB had a surgery to his brain and a plate inserted. Combined the inability to train 100 due to air quality alerts and a media frenzy and underestimated by MAB
* Lost UD Morales - extremely competitive fight. EM had already been in many ring wars
* Destroyed Morales (Prime) see above. Morales entered fight coming off loss to MAB
* Destroyed Morales -- Had no business even being in the ring after entering the bout having his @ss served in an extremely lopsided loss to Zahir Raheem in his prior fight.
* Beat Barrera - already a spent boxer entered the fight coming off a loss to JMM.
* Beat Marquez? 1st fight - Unable to close the show after a tremendous 1st round. 3 knock downs winds up with a draw not a win as you have posted. Was thoroughly schooled but still should have won the decision
* Beat Marquez? 2nd fight. Once again is schooled by JMM manages only one KD yet wins a decision most professional analyst say he lost. If they fight a 3rd and it finishes in similar fashion expect the judges to give JMM the decision as restitution.
* Beat Diaz (not all that) try nothing
Destroyed de la Hoya, a washed up slow and plodding boxer that even Roach had said prior to their fight that he could no longer pull the trigger. Which is like try to claim kudos for bagging Tyra Banks after menopause based on what she accomplished before. Anyone knows a fighter making those kind of weight changes that late in their career and that only fights one a year is bound to lose. To add to matters ODLH has a hand in the PAC vs Hatton fight. Ringling Bros . in da HOUSE !!*
* Next Hatton - Hmmm, one big win over Kostya, an a "W" against a not interested in boxing or making weight JLC and a light hitting PM ...... The Kostya win is lost in peoples minds by a PBF KO Blooper highlight for the ages !!! (simply put OVER RATED !!!!) Mental state is still questionable fighting 2 light hitting low risk opponents in Juan Lazcano and Paul Malignaggi. Yet we are supposed to raise the Pac legend more based on this fights outcome ? Mayweather already took Hattons virginity. Cotto also has not proven he is mentally stable having KO'd a the light hitting Jennings (another in a long line of UK fighters to lay an egg on the big is stage. Mosley may not be able to put back to back masterpieces at his age So only 3 fights for Pac are legit.
PBF - After a PBF tune up fight to clear ring rust
JMM at 135 - 2 fights ever so close for comfort
Ortiz - Put to rest the image of not fighting a young, powerful and dangerous opponent on his resume (after Ortiz beats a a top 3 contender)

See a pattern? Precision match making: Foe must be battle worn, over 30, coming off a loss, or mentally unstable ...... ARUM #1 P4P match scheduling for PAC

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Silliness. Precision match making isn't taking on a legend in his prime as your first fight at 126. Then right after that giving a guy like JMM a chance when he absolutely did not have to, saying who gives a shit about risk/reward, and then after that wanting an immediate rematch. Oh well that fight couldn't be made, lets fight Erik Morales then. Yeah what a chicken shit, what a cherry picker. This has gotten absurd.

For all of the talk about ODLH, the majority thought Pac was going to be slaughtered and that's really besides the point, any fighter would have taken that opportunity, JMM included so the criticism of it is ridiculous.

And now he's fighting Hatton, the man at 140. Cherry picking at its finest. Fucking hell, what a disgrace to the sport Manny is.

The lunacy has driven me to become a Manny hugger :D My avatar is becoming less of a joke every day.

Granted, there's probably more lunacy on my side :-\ And although I don't think the original question really had to be answered, no he's not overrated. You can make a case he's PFP #1. I just think the better argument is for Pac if you take into consideration the whole body of work.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

The lunacy has driven me to become a Manny hugger :D My avatar is becoming less of a joke every day.

Granted, there's probably more lunacy on my side :-\ And although I don't think the original question really had to be answered, no he's not overrated. You can make a case he's PFP #1. I just think the better argument is for Pac if you take into consideration the whole body of work.

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Conflicted are we? ;D

Are you sure your not Amat's twin

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

The lunacy has driven me to become a Manny hugger :D My avatar is becoming less of a joke every day.

Granted, there's probably more lunacy on my side :-\ And although I don't think the original question really had to be answered, no he's not overrated. You can make a case he's PFP #1. I just think the better argument is for Pac if you take into consideration the whole body of work.

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You are mental. The guy in your AV is going to get brutalized.

I think some people on here overrate him, but overall he is a great fighter, I don't think he is as good as he once was, and I think because he matches up so well with Pacquiao that some are inclined to think he is better than he actually is, but he is on the same level or Morales and Barrera which is the highest compliment any boxer could be given, especially mexican fighters.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I think some people on here overrate him, but overall he is a great fighter, I don't think he is as good as he once was, and I think because he matches up so well with Pacquiao that some are inclined to think he is better than he actually is, but he is on the same level or Morales and Barrera which is the highest compliment any boxer could be given, especially mexican fighters.

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JMM deserves every last bit of his accolades.. He isint as physically gifted as Pac or some of your so called dynamic fighters... He is technically sound with GREAT in ring intelligence and ability to adapt. He just isint some obscure fighter who happens to be Pac's achilles heal, He is a 1st ballot hall of famer.. Last time I checked those guys arent usually considered ovverated...

IMO JMM after the Diaz fight is just a step ahead Morales and MAB... Especially if MAB loses to Kahn. which will probably happen

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I think some people on here overrate him, but overall he is a great fighter, I don't think he is as good as he once was, and I think because he matches up so well with Pacquiao that some are inclined to think he is better than he actually is, but he is on the same level or Morales and Barrera which is the highest compliment any boxer could be given, especially mexican fighters.

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JMM deserves every last bit of his accolades.. He isint as physically gifted as Pac or some of your so called dynamic fighters... He is technically sound with GREAT in ring intelligence and ability to adapt. He just isint some obscure fighter who happens to be Pac's achilles heal, He is a 1st ballot hall of famer.. Last time I checked those guys arent usually considered ovverated...

IMO JMM after the Diaz fight is just a step ahead Morales and MAB... Especially if MAB loses to Kahn. which will probably happen

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That is not going to happen. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I think some people on here overrate him, but overall he is a great fighter, I don't think he is as good as he once was, and I think because he matches up so well with Pacquiao that some are inclined to think he is better than he actually is, but he is on the same level or Morales and Barrera which is the highest compliment any boxer could be given, especially mexican fighters.

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JMM deserve s every last bit of his accolades.. He isint as physically gifted as Pac or some of your so called dynamic fighters... He is technically sound with GREAT in ring intelligence and ability to adapt. He just isint some obscure fighter who happens to be Pac's achilles heal, He is a 1st ballot hall of famer.. Last time I checked those guys arent usually considered ovverated...

IMO JMM after the Diaz fight is just a step ahead Morales and MAB... Especially if MAB loses to Kahn. which will probably happen

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Look at all the big name fighters Barrera and Morales fought earlier in their career, just because JMM is fighting the big names now doesn't negate what they did. I am not saying he is an obscure fighter, but he does have Manny's number stylistically. What I am saying is some people are treating him like a god, but he isn't, he is technically sound, but he is no Floyd Mayweather, no Bernard Hopkins. Sure he is fighting exciting fights against Joel Casamayor and Juan Diaz, but these are guys Floyd Mayweather would be beating handily, nearly every round. I am saying he is a really good fighter, but he isn't the best ever, and not the best of this generation just like MOrales, just like Barrera.

PS. Juan Manuel Marquez is tremendously gifted athlete, and though he isn't quite on Pacquiao's level, he is one of the faster fighters in boxing. He does have great ring intelligence, but he doesn't have good defensive skills which boggles my mind, he is really good at adapting, he has great determination and ring presence, but he still gets hit more than other guys who were revered with the same sort of intelligence Mayweather, Hopkins, Whitaker.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I think some people on here overrate him, but overall he is a great fighter, I don't think he is as good as he once was, and I think because he matches up so well with Pacquiao that some are inclined to think he is better than he actually is, but he is on the same level or Morales and Barrera which is the highest compliment any boxer could be given, especially mexican fighters.

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JMM deserve s every last bit of his accolades.. He isint as physically gifted as Pac or some of your so called dynamic fighters... He is technically sound with GREAT in ring intelligence and ability to adapt. He just isint some obscure fighter who happens to be Pac's achilles heal, He is a 1st ballot hall of famer.. Last time I checked those guys arent usually considered ovverated...

IMO JMM after the Diaz fight is just a step ahead Morales and MAB... Especially if MAB loses to Kahn. which will probably happen

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Look at all the big name fighters Barrera and Morales fought earlier in their career, just because JMM is fighting the big names now doesn't negate what they did. I am not saying he is an obscure fighter, but he does have Manny's number stylistically. What I am saying is some people are treating him like a god, but he isn't, he is technically sound, but he is no Floyd Mayweather, no Bernard Hopkins. Sure he is fighting exciting fights against Joel Casamayor and Juan Diaz, but these are guys Floyd Mayweather would be beating handily, nearly every round. I am saying he is a really good fighter, but he isn't the best ever, and not the best of this generation just like MOrales, just like Barrera.

PS. Juan Manuel Marquez is tremendously gifted athlete, and though he isn't quite on Pacquiao's level, he is one of the faster fighters in boxing. He does have great ring intelligence, but he doesn't have good defensive skills which boggles my mind, he is really good at adapting, he has great determination and ring presence, but he still gets hit more than other guys who were revered with the same sort of intelligence Mayweather, Hopkins, Whitaker.

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unlike Mayweather he's 35, unlike all three mentioned above he is willing to turn things into a fight and not just play it safe, he does get hit, but his opponant pays for it as well, all i have to say is round 6 in JMM/Pac I

I've learned that if Taeths mind once told him to reply in a thread and comment by saying: "Alexis Arguello is not an ATG"
then he pretty much has the highest of the high in boxing standards.

JMM is argueably one of the most technically sound fighters out there today. He has yet to be in a fight which he's lost where you say "Shit he got beaten" I've yet to see anyone clearly beat the man.

I agree on his defense but OK, it's not like PBF offense is the greatest.
He loops his punches, his output his horrible, he takes rounds off.
He himself has been caught with some good shots ODLH was able to catch him flush.

PBF def. the greatest fighter of this last generation but there is not denying that JMM is up there and I can only see PBF beating him. I
don't think Joan can beat him, nore Nate and I think he beats Hatton, Bradly or any of the 140 lb. title holders.

I also think it's absurd to say that the highest level of compliment to a Mexican boxer is to be told he's at the level of MAB or Erik.
That's just insane, clearly any Mexican boxer and I've heard many say the highest compliment for them is to be considered as great as JCC.

JMM def. lost a step or two but his technical greatness has carried him thuis far.
Also you can't compare JMM and Hop as far as who get's hit more. I mean up until his fight with Pav, Hops hadn't been fighting with a pleasing style.
I actually got fed up with Hops cause for sometime there he quite possibly had the shittiest fighs in a row.
Compared to a warrior like JMM who's a come forward fighter and goes into the ring to trade shots not dance and hug.

All in all JMM will def. be looked at as one of the greats of this generation and he'll keep proving it until you can't question it cause if it's one thing I've learned from talking to him is that he's determined to become the best in the world and his talk aint press talk when he says he wants the best that's exactly what he means and he know he can beat them.

I think PBFs opposition is over rated.
His skills can't be denied but his opposition is very questionable.
I mean really Henry Bruseles? :(
Sharmba? Zab? Baldomir?

PBFs last opponents: Hatton, ODLH, Baldomir, Zab, Sharmba
Pacs last opponents: ODLH, Diaz, JMM, MAB, Solis
JMM last opponents: Diaz, Casa, Pac, MAB, Juarez, Jaca

I mean clearly you can see that Pac & JMM quality of opposition is better then PBFs. I mean honestly aside from Hatton the rest of PBFs opposition is pretty weak.

If anyone feels I've downplayed PBFs opposition I'd like to hear their side. I'm all ears... :ears:

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

I think PBFs opposition is over rated.
His skills can't be denied but his opposition is very questionable.
I mean really Henry Bruseles? :(
Sharmba? Zab? Baldomir?

PBFs last opponents: Hatton, ODLH, Baldomir, Zab, Sharmba
Pacs last opponents: ODLH, Diaz, JMM, MAB, Solis
JMM last opponents: Diaz, Casa, Pac, MAB, Juarez, Jaca

I mean clearly you can see that Pac & JMM quality of opposition is better then PBFs. I mean honestly aside from Hatton the rest of PBFs opposition is pretty weak.

If anyone feels I've downplayed PBFs opposition I'd like to hear their side. I'm all ears... :ears:

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You just mentioned Pac in a post. Great, now I've done it too!

All this stuff is really getting crazy. If there's a serious question whether or not one of the finest boxers of our generation is overrated, then I think we need to examine this word "overrated". I think people are using this word to express an emotion about a boxer, rather than an objective opinion. Instead of rationally looking at a fighter's career, it's all about "hey, this guy fought one of my favorite fighters, so I have to talk bad about him!" That's just ridiculous. Is it impossible to respect both fighters?

If you can't respect and admire more than one fighter, why do you watch boxing? If you can't respect the fighters who deserve respect, then maybe you should try following a different sport. I hear badminton has some real badasses...

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Originally Posted by bcollins

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

I think PBFs opposition is over rated.
His skills can't be denied but his opposition is very questionable.
I mean really Henry Bruseles? :(
Sharmba? Zab? Baldomir?

PBFs last opponents: Hatton, ODLH, Baldomir, Zab, Sharmba
Pacs last opponents: ODLH, Diaz, JMM, MAB, Solis
JMM last opponents: Diaz, Casa, Pac, MAB, Juarez, Jaca

I mean clearly you can see that Pac & JMM quality of opposition is better then PBFs. I mean honestly aside from Hatton the rest of PBFs opposition is pretty weak.

If anyone feels I've downplayed PBFs opposition I'd like to hear their side. I'm all ears... :ears:

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You just mentioned Pac in a post. Great, now I've done it too!

All this stuff is really getting crazy. If there's a serious question whether or not one of the finest boxers of our generation is overrated, then I think we need to examine this word "overrated". I think people are using this word to express an emotion about a boxer, rather than an objective opinion. Instead of rationally looking at a fighter's career, it's all about "hey, this guy fought one of my favorite fighters, so I have to talk bad about him!" That's just ridiculous. Is it impossible to respect both fighters?

If you can't respect and admire more than one fighter, why do you watch boxing? If you can't respect the fighters who deserve respect, then maybe you should try following a different sport. I hear badminton has some real badasses...

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I agree with everything Mick just said in his last two posts and what your saying here.

I left this post in here instead of moving it because it has some merit to the thought and has a balanced persepective with Pac involved or not.

I moved alot of threads yesterday cause we dont want set ups,trolling or sh!t fights over the same content continually on the main board.

If others cant see that most of those types of threads are just placed here to make PAC look better for the Pac fans that are arriving in bunches into Saddos now; Then I think the wool is being pulled over your eyes.

These blokes will try and get us to talk about their favorite fighter (one of mine too) at any cost because most of them (not all) can only talk about PAC in regards to overall boxing because thats all they know as that is where they have entered in boxing .(Its PAC and his opponents or nothing). Look at all the other threads its clean of their posts unless they can wangle a Pac comment into one of them on a related cause.

We cant be continually set up into these threads with two sides taking offence at each others standings over the matter, jokes posts aside most of us here have had enough.

Have a couple of threads running on it by all means but please if newbies come marching in trying to set up that stuff for their own pumped up ego, its a clean sweep and a ban :mad:.

Reason:
(I miss the 20 or so old posters who have left this place because of it).
I dont want any more leaving.